Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[erikcred]

Ole was a deceptively good big game manager outside of his final season there which turned into unmitigated disaster at all fronts. Especially away from home where we rarely got thoroughly outplayed. We had a handful of performances like PS (the second one), City where we not only won the game but outperformed a vastly superior team.

A handful is not enough to be a good big game manager. Emery has consistently won Europa finals. He's a much better "big game" manager.

Because of Ole's incredible new manager bounce, teams were giving us some respect initially. Even in his first half season, we got quickly figured out.

 

[Micky Targaryen]

For those justifying this loss as some kind of "win" because he did things right, just stop. We lost the game. There's no "if Garnacho scored, then perspectives will be different." Reality is we lost yet another big away game.
We keep trying low percentage high balls, knowing our midfield and forwards is not press resistant. Our forward line do not press much compared to Arsenal's.
So yeah, people are gonna continue to moan and deservedly so. I'm still on the fence with ETH because I'm still not seeing any identity on the pitch. I can only hope that off the pitch, he's ripping into our players every week and doubling down on players' fitness.

 

[crossy1686]

I have to say, that was a good performance away from home, at a place where we have not had a lot of success.

I absolutely adore this team and can't wait for all players to be fit and raring to go.

You think that's the only issue?

 

[Devil You Know]

Kane might have helped. But missing a functional CF in the first half is not the reason we lost.

United played deep because EtH was afraid of Arsenal's young midfielders overrunning our old men in the middle of the park. By sitting back, he basically gave Casemiro/Eriksen the legs around them that they needed. And it worked, too, for most of the game.

I think we'll see a big difference when Amrabat starts to play. Possibly also Mainoo. And, of course, once Mount finally settles into his new role.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

He needs to be courageous enough to drop Bruno, then train the team to hold the ball in midfield same way he have started to do it from Onana from the back. It's extremely possible.

We are caught in 2 minds, we are not courageous enough to play through teams because we say we want to be a transition team will still playing from the back.

The signs are there, the game plan is there, he needs to change his tactics and team structure immediately like Conte after losing few games as Chelsea manager in 2016.

 

[Dannn411]

Kane would have done precisely feck all yesterday to change the outcome of the game. The forward players fed on scraps all game because it was literally just pass the ball around the back for ages and then hoof a ball upfield and hope it sticks somewhere. Plus Tottenham don't seem to miss him and are scoring for fun without him. Enough of these ridiculous excuses. The reason we play so poorly most of the time is down to nobody else but the manager. Period.

 

[Toshey]

Arse never seemed likely to score and we should have won. Good game plan, good execution that had individual feck ups.

For all the love I have for Rash, his baffling decision making costed us at least 3 clear chances.

Onana is a game changer.

All the potential of this team is obvious to anyone who has patience and perspective.

ETH knows what he's doing.

Very soon everything will click.

 

[Sarni]

A handful is not enough to be a good big game manager. Emery has consistently won Europa finals. He's a much better "big game" manager.

Because of Ole's incredible new manager bounce, teams were giving us some respect initially. Even in his first half season, we got quickly figured out.

In his first full season we beat Chelsea 4-0 at home and 2-0 away, beat City 2-1 away and 2-0 at home, beat Spurs at home and drew to them away, drew to Liverpool and Arsenal at home and lost 2-0 to both of them away. Not a bad record by any stretch of imagination.

His second season we had that disastrous 6-1 loss to Spurs and lost 1-0 to Arsenal at home, had four 0-0s (Chelsea home and away, Liverpool away, City home) and beat City and Spurs away. Again pretty good away from home but got worse at home.

It was better than what we have had so far under ETH though, much better, which is weird because quite clearly they aren’t at the same level as managers.

 

[Sarni]

He needs to be courageous enough to drop Bruno, then train the team to hold the ball in midfield same way he have started to do it from Onana from the back. It's extremely possible.

We are caught in 2 minds, we are not courageous enough to play through teams because we say we want to be a transition team will still playing from the back.

The signs are there, the game plan is there, he needs to change his tactics and team structure immediately like Conte after losing few games as Chelsea manager in 2016.

Bruno is our best player and basically the only creative outlet. He’d be insane to bench him.

 

[pocco]

More talk of why we didn't buy Kane...

I don't know how people watch yesterday's game (or any of our performances so far) and think Kane is the answer.

Spurs sold Kane and look better for it, playing far better football than us.

Their new manager has a bit (a lot) to do with that. Nothing to do with Kane leaving. In fact I think they'd look even better with him.

 

[Rednotdead]

We’ve now taken 1 point from 30 away from home against top 8 teams over the past season and this one so far.

Now tell me we’re improving and Ten Hag knows what he’s doing.

 

[VP89]

We’ve now taken 1 point from 30 away from home against top 8 teams over the past season and this one so far.

Now tell me we’re improving and Ten Hag knows what he’s doing.

I think if you focused on the performances you'd be able to answer the question yourself and not ask stupid questions.

Yesterday was a good performance and we almost nabbed all 3 points with Maguire + Evans at CB. First half to Spurs we should have been 2 or 3 up. I'm not going to blame Ten Hag for our players being unable to put away simple chances or for big injuries.

 

[erikcred]

In his first full season we beat Chelsea 4-0 at home and 2-0 away, beat City 2-1 away and 2-0 at home, beat Spurs at home and drew to them away, drew to Liverpool and Arsenal at home and lost 2-0 to both of them away. Not a bad record by any stretch of imagination.

His second season we had that disastrous 6-1 loss to Spurs and lost 1-0 to Arsenal at home, had four 0-0s (Chelsea home and away, Liverpool away, City home) and beat City and Spurs away. Again pretty good away from home but got worse at home.

It was better than what we have had so far under ETH though, much better, which is weird because quite clearly they aren’t at the same level as managers.

Maybe I'm just jaded and barely remember any of these good results from any of our managers. Just sick of the optimism every summer only to get smashed back to reality before the first international break.

 

[pocco]

We’ve now taken 1 point from 30 away from home against top 8 teams over the past season and this one so far.

Now tell me we’re improving and Ten Hag knows what he’s doing.

The problem yesterday was that we were set up to be completely safety first. We had a few opportunities on the counter, but I saw an Arsenal team that hadn't yet found their rhythm and looked vulnerable. Yet we barely tested them out. I think ETH was expecting last seasons Arsenal, but if he'd have watched them this season then he'd have known they're not at that level right now.

And I think Arsenals approach was testament to that. They sat back and allowed us to have the ball, albeit probably too much, and didn't take any chances defensively.

All round a poor game from both teams yesterday and I think both managers got it wrong. Though the result and lack of chances for us will vindicate Arteta.

 

[mariko48]

We’ve now taken 1 point from 30 away from home against top 8 teams over the past season and this one so far.

Now tell me we’re improving and Ten Hag knows what he’s doing.

Try to look by your own eyes for once will you?

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Bruno is our best player and basically the only creative outlet. He’d be insane to bench him.

Only in our deluded fans is Bruno such a darling.
Like Kane to spurs, Bruno has to leave for the team to take the next step forward. As I've said previously, one of ETH or Bruno will not be here in 18 months. Both of them won't last that long in the current setup. Something has to give.

 

[pocco]

I think if you focused on the performances you'd be able to answer the question yourself and not ask stupid questions.

Yesterday was a good performance and we almost nabbed all 3 points with Maguire + Evans at CB. First half to Spurs we should have been 2 or 3 up. I'm not going to blame Ten Hag for our players being unable to put away simple chances or for big injuries.

We almost nabbed 3 points but didn't deserve to. And by the same logic you could say we should have lost to Wolves and maybe Forest. We've not looked good this season, yesterday's "pass it round at the back under no pressure and rely on a counter" approach isn't sustainable and won't win us a thing.

 

[rajds89]

I think if you focused on the performances you'd be able to answer the question yourself and not ask stupid questions.

Yesterday was a good performance and we almost nabbed all 3 points with Maguire + Evans at CB. First half to Spurs we should have been 2 or 3 up. I'm not going to blame Ten Hag for our players being unable to put away simple chances or for big injuries.

Yesterday wasn’t a good performance, it was an okay performance. The fact that so many are claiming it to be any different just shows how far our standards have slipped. We didn’t really lay a glove on them from start to finish. Yes we had plenty of the ball in our own half playing short, meaningless passes but that’s hardly a measure of how well we performed.

This is a results business and right now, ETH is failing to get us results in the games that matter most.

 

[Marcus]

I think we will see the true United team soon. I am confident we will at least get 3rd this season. Mainly because we now actually have the personnel in place to cover when there are injuries (and there are many) and a powerful, mobile CF. There are no excuses now for EtH in terms of personnel. Time to stand and deliver and I think he will.

 

[adkb]

You think that's the only issue?

Clearly there are more issues, but honestly I have seen this team under so many managers now, I feel they are now becoming one unit. There will be some ruthless decisions to take here and there, and I fully expect the manager to do it.

 

[klsv]

Ah yes, sack Erik, sell Bruno

 

[Marcus]

Arse never seemed likely to score and we should have won. Good game plan, good execution that had individual feck ups.

For all the love I have for Rash, his baffling decision making costed us at least 3 clear chances.

Onana is a game changer.

All the potential of this team is obvious to anyone who has patience and perspective.

ETH knows what he's doing.

Very soon everything will click.

I agree with this. You could see a plan and flexibility in terns of tactics. This was a game to suffer, soak and strike and this we did do. Unfortunately, there were lapses and this cost us the game.

 

[flameinthesun]

For those justifying this loss as some kind of "win" because he did things right, just stop. We lost the game. There's no "if Garnacho scored, then perspectives will be different." Reality is we lost yet another big away game.
We keep trying low percentage high balls, knowing our midfield and forwards is not press resistant. Our forward line do not press much compared to Arsenal's.
So yeah, people are gonna continue to moan and deservedly so. I'm still on the fence with ETH because I'm still not seeing any identity on the pitch. I can only hope that off the pitch, he's ripping into our players every week and doubling down on players' fitness.

The forward line yesterday was Rashford, Martial and Antony. Only 1 of those actually commits to a press. Behind them only Bruno has the legs to press. So it's no surprise to see the attacking line press not be as good as arsenal's when you have Rashford and Martial up top.

As soon as Rasmus came on he brought a different energy to that line (as well as Garnacho). I will judge our press when we have a fully fit team with Rasmus up top and Bruno + Mount behind as that on paper should make our press better.

 

[VP89]

We almost nabbed 3 points but didn't deserve to. And by the same logic you could say we should have lost to Wolves and maybe Forest. We've not looked good this season, yesterday's "pass it round at the back under no pressure and rely on a counter" approach isn't sustainable and won't win us a thing.

I don't think we deserved to lose 3 points to Arsenal, and I think we deserved to be up against Spurs by 2 or 3 at HT which makes the game very different.
I certainly dont think we were fortunate vs Forrest. We played them completely off the park and created.

 

[VP89]

Yesterday wasn’t a good performance, it was an okay performance. The fact that so many are claiming it to be any different just shows how far our standards have slipped. We didn’t really lay a glove on them from start to finish. Yes we had plenty of the ball in our own half playing short, meaningless passes but that’s hardly a measure of how well we performed.

This is a results business and right now, ETH is failing to get us results in the games that matter most.

Nail on the head in bold, but used in the complete wrong context.
Results based business --> Ten Hag got us to top 3 and a cup last year.
This year we have barely taken off --> hold your horses before the over the top moans. Yes Arsenal + Spurs matter a lot but there are going to many such fixtures this season.

 

[red.knight]

Mount, Onana, Rojlund and Amrabat are Ten hag’s signings. Varane’s fitness record shows United can't rely on him. In his two seasons at United, Varane has missed 32 games (17 games in 21/22 and 15 games in 22/23). Despite that, Ten hag let the one player that would have strengthened our challenge, go to Bayern Munich for a reasonable €50m. To see Lindelof, Maguire, Evans, Eriksen and Martial after spending £400m+ is completely perplexing. Maguire and Evans had the combined speed of a tractor. WTF was ten Hag thinking (or not thinking)? A sad touch from Ten hag to bring them together like this. We are no better than last season, with regards to the strength of our squad at the moment. The stakes are higher for Ten hag this season and if his signings don't come good then he will start to feel the pressure.

 

[Gordon Godot]

Nail on the head in bold, but used in the complete wrong context.
Results based business --> Ten Hag got us to top 3 and a cup last year.
This year we have barely taken off --> hold your horses before the over the top moans. Yes Arsenal + Spurs matter a lot but there are going to many such fixtures this season.

We got top 3 last season in part due to collapse of others. Liverpool looking good, as are Spurs, top 4 competition will be much harder. Our away record agaisnt top clubs is attrocious. Yesterday Arsenal were happy to give us ball in our own half as they knew we couldnt harm them. Maguire and Evans in defence is the mos shambolic thing we have seen post Fergie. Its not good.

 

[Borys]

How can people be happy with this performance against Arsenal? The plan was to get the ball to Casemiro/Martinez/Onana and lump it forward. There was ONE player who seemed comforteable controlling those ball and that was Antony. How is that a good tactic for a club like Manchester United? The only thing that could kill Arsenal was their careless passing.

We pissed off Arsenal players and somehow that put them off the momentum, so we survived almost 90'. We scored 2 goals from 2 good situations we had, this is NOT SUSTAINABLE tactics.

ETH was afraid to play actual football yesterday. I am disappointed with him so far. I don't see his coaching footprint on the team at all. What is even worse, I think the players are starting to have doubts in him. It doesn't feel like they are buying this setup (also applies to Casemiro-Bruno-Mount games this season).

 

[quadrant]

Its a real shame how quickly fans have given up on ETH. It took til Klopp's 4th season to challenge for the title, same with Arteta, yet ETH should be doing so after just 12 months? I wonder who fans think could have done better?

 

[norm87cro]

He has done an alright job. Our defense is fixed. Some of our midfield is fixed. Our forwards are the one letting us down so far. Hopefully Hojlund will help improve that.

Our defense is fixed? What are you talking about? That is still our worst part of the pitch. Varane is injury prone, ETH has no plans for Maguire without proper alternatives, Martinez is short for the position and Lindelof is possibly the worst defender this club has had in the last 25 years. The backs have done a decent job to be fair

 

[VP89]

We got top 3 last season in part due to collapse of others. Liverpool looking good, as are Spurs, top 4 competition will be much harder. Our away record agaisnt top clubs is attrocious. Yesterday Arsenal were happy to give us ball in our own half as they knew we couldnt harm them. Maguire and Evans in defence is the mos shambolic thing we have seen post Fergie. Its not good.

Every season there is 5 or 6 hunting for top for, 2 will collapse. What sort of logic is this?

Every season we go in, it's all "bah gad, the top 4 race" and then we get the real deal teams as it progresses. We get teams imploding, we get sackings, we get underdogs pushing (newcastle last year) but the consistent ones stay on. Ten Hag in his first year was consistent and he got a cup to top it off.

 

[erikcred]

Its a real shame how quickly fans have given up on ETH. It took til Klopp's 4th season to challenge for the title, same with Arteta, yet ETH should be doing so after just 12 months? I wonder who fans think could have done better?

What the feck? They were in the CL final in his second full season (before signing Allison and Fabinho) and won the bloody thing in his 3rd season while getting 95+ points.

Yes, it's painful that he's managing them, but you can't change reality.

 

[Mike Smalling]

We're going to have to go on some kind of a run after the international break. We have a series of 5 relatively winnable PL games with Brighton at home being the toughest test. With Højlund in the side, Amrabat coming in and Varane hopefully being back soon, there is enough quality there to get some wins.

 

[VP89]

What the feck? They were in the CL final in his second full season (before signing Allison and Fabinho) and won the bloody thing in his 3rd season while getting 95+ points.

Yes, it's painful that he's managing them, but you can't change reality.

Yes, you can't change reality. It took Klopp 4 seasons to challenge for the title.

 

[Maik2022]

I tend to switch the teams i'm rooting for in the PL, except City. I really like to watch Arsenal and Tottenham now, because they play great football. But United are always interesting. Rashy is simply amazing, last time i saw an attacker bypass a defender with one step was probably when brazilian Ronaldo was around, he maybe should have passed at least some more. Clearly one of the Top5 best strikers in the world, courtesy of Ten Hag. I also like Casemiro, what a guy! There's clearly an improvement, like last year everyone was rooting for Martial to be fit, this year, yeah he's here, but we don't really need him. The new striker looked great like a perfect fit for the style of the PL. I also love Anthony, Martinez and the way AWB has come back, courtesy of Ten Hag, and of course Onana what a keeper, my favourite. Why Macguire is still here, i don't know, Arsenal supporters were cheering him on, when he came in. This won't end well, he should move on to a smaller club out of the spotlight. Anyway was a great game, i think you can be proud what you have, this team has spirit and talent, love to watch, the competition is so great that Top4 would be an achievement in my book, the team is still growing.

 

[stoinz]

Our defense is fixed? What are you talking about? That is still our worst part of the pitch. Varane is injury prone, ETH has no plans for Maguire without proper alternatives, Martinez is short for the position and Lindelof is possibly the worst defender this club has had in the last 25 years. The backs have done a decent job to be fair

sorry man, I beg to differ, I thought our defense is good. Our forwards are our worst part of the pitch. Since he came in, he had change the goalkeeper, 1 centre back, 1 left back. He settled on his centre back pair, and had Shaw playing well consistently.

 

[stoinz]

Sorry, what part of our midfield is "fixed"? The slowest, most immobile midfield in the league.

If you're talking about the signing of Amrabat on loan, we haven't seen the lad play for us yet.

And the defence is "fixed" only if you ignore the fact that 3 of the first choice back 4 are regularly crocked.

I'm talking about addition of Casemiro. I don't think our midfielders are slow or immobile but physically weak. Other than Case the rest are always being dispossed too easily. It is not as if they can't get to the ball but once they get on the ball, they get easily dispossed.

 

[quadrant]

What the feck? They were in the CL final in his second full season (before signing Allison and Fabinho) and won the bloody thing in his 3rd season while getting 95+ points.

Yes, it's painful that he's managing them, but you can't change reality.

He joined in October 2015, and managed them for almost the entire 15-16 season. So while second "full" season may be technically correct, in reality it was his third season working with and developing that group of players when he reached the CL final, despite only finishing 4th in the league. It was in his 4th season that everything finally fell into place and he challenged while winning the CL.

And if you're asking me if Klopp is better than ETH, I would say certainly, right now anyway. Klopp and Pep are the two most important managers of the last decade. And yet people are complaining about ETH for not doing the same job that Klopp did but in a fraction of the time.

If there's a manager out there who is appreciably better than Pep or Klopp, who could turn the circus around and have United challenging in 12 months, sign him up! But I don't believe there is one. Fans want a magic wand when there isn't one. Any manager would need several seasons to put the building blocks together.

 

[red.knight]

I would have revised the title of the thread to “Erik ten Hag - Manchester United manager - Sack Watch”

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Make your mind up mate.

Maybe you should learn to read properly before being smart