This just isn't true at all
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I think all football clubs would be delighted with a 60 - 70% success rate in the transfer market.
That's also why I think some of our fans' blind faith in the manager's transfer picks is daft, because the odds make that untenable.
I'm as concerned as you are, but that's not fair really. Brighton was already playing along those lines, a more appropriate comparison is how Potter couldn't get Chelsea to instantly play that way.
If you ask me, his biggest problem is two key players in Bruno and Rashford aren't really compatible with what he is trying to do, but I doubt anyone here is excited at the prospect of dropping them.
That's ultimately the problem that has blighted us for a decade, we have been signing the players completely different managers want and new managers inherit star players that are undroppable misfits. We don't get anywhere that way, not fast enough, then new manager in and rinse repeat.
Everyone and his brother knows that Rashford is most effective out on the left. He doesn't like playing down the middle - though I think he could do a good job there if he applied himself - and this may factor into his disinclination to press hard.
1) First off, we didn’t have the money for a Rice or a Caicedo without affecting the purchase of Hojlund
2) Second, its funny how you term both as world class while I would put them far from that category. It was only a couple of years ago when most of the CAF was up in arms when we were linked with a 80m move for Rice under Ole. I am sure if we went for any of the 2 at the price, most of the CAF would have revolted (so would I).
3) Coming to Mount, I agree he is not the most natural fit in this team. I would have likes to see a Kovacic, or a FDJ type player, but maybe none were available at the prices we had as a budget.
4) I would give EtH some time to figure the balance out. He is a pragmatist and I am sure he can see that the midfield is not working and he needs to tweak things.
Totally agree, still unsure what type of style our football actually is.
I trust him to come good but the first two games is really concerning.
Why does a club lounge United not have a style of play?
Everyone saying that once hojlund comes we will get better, we cannot be that dependant on one player that too who is new.
I get that he comes in and rashford goes back to his position but it's not looking good with rashford either.
The front 3 are bad.
Why does a club lounge United not have a style of play?
Everyone saying that once hojlund comes we will get better, we cannot be that dependant on one player that too who is new.
I get that he comes in and rashford goes back to his position but it's not looking good with rashford either.
The front 3 are bad.
They're both very good players miles better than what we have and are linked with. Again it still doesn’t excuse the 60m purchase of Mount if we can’t get a system to work with 2 advancing midfielders? the question remains why didn’t we prio a #8 early in the summer when the likes of those I’d mentioned were available? we had a budget of 150m we could have got a top quality midfielder and Hojlund over the line then signed Onana after a few sales.
I guess it all boils down to if he can get this system to work, it looks a long way off for me to the point of footballing basics like make runs off the ball and the ability to string 5 passes together need to be implemented but here we are
Got to agree that the lack of a style of play, or at least a working effective one is a real issue. Everything I heard about ETH was that his teams pressed high and hard and won the ball back quick. I was looking forward to seeing this implemented properly here but we still look so disjointed. Not only with the pressing but pretty much most basic aspects on the game.
He says he wants us to be the best counter attacking team in the world so I’ll give him this season to see if we get anywhere near that and improve on the basic passing, positional and combination play we should be doing routinely every game.
We are a very poorly drilled side and that has to change, we need a structure of play implementing and care free players like Bruno and Rashford need to be reigned in until the basics are nailed down. It’s pretty sad that they can’t seem to see this themselves.
He says he wants us to be the best counter attacking team in the world so I’ll give him this season to see if we get anywhere near that and improve on the basic passing, positional and combination play we should be doing routinely every game.
We are a very poorly drilled side and that has to change, we need a structure of play implementing and care free players like Bruno and Rashford need to be reigned in until the basics are nailed down. It’s pretty sad that they can’t seem to see this themselves.
But this should have been the prerogative all summer ! Now given how money's been spent, it's basically the manager having to admit fault and freeze out a midfield signing that took one third of the budget.
Everything you have described in bold is last year's system with improvement on the striker and an upgrade to Eriksen. The fact that 150M has been spent and this is still the issue is indicative of poor planning. ETH is certainly a good enough and reputable coach but it's not like this situation has presented itself out of thin air, it's cause and effect from decisions he has made with his superiors.
Brighton is an exception rather than a norm. While I agree with your point generally bringing a well run club like Brighton to discussion won't give any benefit
What do you think about Haaland and De Bruyne when it comes to what Guardiola tries to make his teams do?
These players are tiers above Rashford and Bruno respectively. Haaland has the strikers IQ and KdB doesn't keep giving the ball away. These are only basics to begin the comparisons with.
It’s incredible what they do at Brighton. They lose a key player every single window. They lost their manager last year to Chelsea yet they recruit really well and appoint a new manager that makes them even better out of nowhere
They need studying on how to run a football club
These stats aren’t surprising at all we are one of the slowest and laziest teams around. We have wingers who can’t beat a man so just stop and turn back most the time.
When we lose the ball our front 3, well to be fair not so much Anthony, whoever the other 2 are, don’t sprint back to help out. I’m sure Garnacho jogged back for the first spurs goal yesterday when if he sprinted he could have at least made it difficult to cross or blocked it.
This never seems to get addressed in training as it happens all the time.
So are their equivalents to the likes of Antony, Mount, Casemiro and even Martinez.
Get those equivalents up to the required level and then complain about not having your only source of production not being exactly what you want.
What about Newcastle? They have been transformed from relegation battlers to Champions League in super quick time.
Some of the critics are hysterical agenda-driven nutters who have had the knives out for months, and were waiting to strike. They are fecking relentless, too.
I think most have an issue with these posters as they're utterly insufferable, as opposed to anyone who posts constructive criticism.
The fact of the matter is; he done a relatively good job last season. It wasn't perfect, but it was better, or at least on par, with people's expectations. This season, yeah, I'm struggling to see what's going on. But, he has credit in the bank and while we haven't started well, there's plenty of time to sort it out.
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Having Garnacho, who isn't an efficient dribbler and loses possession many times, along with being super young and not great with his decision making to supply an out of sorts Rashford as CF is a bad idea. There's no chemistry at all that whole left/left-central channel and it's not good enough now to persist with.
It's really frustrating because Garnacho gets the chances and space because he is a textbook touch line hugger but he doesn't have the game intelligence of someone like Sancho. However, Sancho has the awareness but is really iffy with his athleticism and dribbling penetration.
Unless Martial is fit enough, then play Sancho on the left or as the false 9. It's not going to solve our porous midfield but it's an easy fix for now.
Come on ETH, show us your tactical acumen!
It's really frustrating because Garnacho gets the chances and space because he is a textbook touch line hugger but he doesn't have the game intelligence of someone like Sancho. However, Sancho has the awareness but is really iffy with his athleticism and dribbling penetration.
Unless Martial is fit enough, then play Sancho on the left or as the false 9. It's not going to solve our porous midfield but it's an easy fix for now.
Come on ETH, show us your tactical acumen!
It has been a lot worse than this, what do you mean?I don't know what the plan is for Mount longterm, but I'd imagine ETH must have a very good one as he was desperate to get him and it's still very early days, so I'm happy to reserve judgement for now.
Whatever though he has to get another midfielder in.
Everyone and his wife knows that Bruno is more effective in the middle, and yet ETH still plays him on the right, on the left etc. Last year he was doing it to accommodate ... Wout!
Why? Why is he trying to destroy our best players? Bruno and Rashford have to play in their best positions, not to accommodate other players or fill holes.
We did press pretty well at times vs Spurs and Wolves.
Our possession play needs to improve though.
De Bruyne gives the ball away a lot. People just don't notice it for some reason.
His passing accuracy throughout his career isn't too far above Bruno's.
Well we have Hoijlund to come in movig Rashford back in the middle....but if there is no more business, I feel we have taken one step forward when a few other clubs have made bigger strides and on paper at least look further forward in comparison to last year
And who will the new midfielder replace? Or will Bruno replace Antony?
Will be Casimiro I guess.
I don't know how it's going to work, but it's glaringly obvious that we need one.
To be honest depending what the plans are for Mctominay then we could need two, Casemiro can't play every game.
I swear you said there was nothing wrong with the OP’s description of Maino
.Yeah, I've been thinking about this as well.
During the first half I was wondering if this is a suitable tactics as it will requires a level of energy that I don't think our players have. You can see that there's no way we can keep that pressing for 90 minutes, and it showed in the second half.
I think the losing our head part after their goal was also influenced by the fact that their stamina wouldn't allow them to play with the first half intensity.
I do find it interesting that Ten Hag instead of doubling down on what's make United midfield successful last season, he went on a completely different direction this season. If he wants to improve on last season, he should've find a younger player with more legs but equal passing ability than Eriksen. But instead he went with Mount, a completely different profile of players, who is more similar to Fred
Maybe he was trying to create our best performance last season, which is without Eriksen? (also against Spurs ironically, but at home)
We paired Case with Fred as a high energy midfielder in that match.
Massive season for him. He has spoken well....so did Ragnick. He has a vision....so did Ole. He is taking control....so did Mourinho
Two of those managers had a first seaso just as good as Ten Hags and failed miserably in there second seasons. The other one was an interim manager that failed msierably but very much knew what the team needed and wasnt scared to say it.....and Ten Hag didnt even give him time to hear his advice
I have been happy with Ten Hag so far. But I am still reserving judgement until the second season is completed after false dawns before.
On his arrival had all these online tactical experts raving about his brilliant tactical acumen, Christmas last year there was a lot of people saying what a great window it had been....not saying he has failed, but people have gone overbaord on both counts so far......
1st year we spent £80m odd on Antony, £70m on a 30year old cm, nearly £60m on a cb, bought a lb and were left making a free signing as our second cm signing.
We needed a couple more signings but overspent on what we bought and failed to move players on, jsut losing several for nothing.
Now that is the first window for a new manager, so not blaming or juding that on him, but we ended up short in midfield and up front having to make loan signings that didnt really work.
This summer I felt we needed seven signings and several more moved on, too early to judge but I am not convinced unless there is major movement at the end of the window that it has been a good one, several clubs have done better.....and I feel it is going to be a similar window to last season and Ten Hag can be judged this time:
Onana - This is his good move as it looks like the club were quite happy to keep DeGea
Hoijlund - I have a feeling he will be great but cant judge this one at all at the moment
Mount - Now this is the one that sets of alarm bells for me personally. Keep in mind Ten Hag has now signed three central midfielders, we already have Fernandes and we also have Mainoo and Hannibal, two very talented youngsters.......yet most fans are desperate for a cm signing, that isnt good.
Casemeiro is in his 30s, some already concerned about his fitness. I personally think its just a drop of form and maybe tiredness last season, this season is because he is isolated so far and asked to do far too much....and that is the midfield balance
Eriksen - He is done
Mount - I am just baffled by this one, player he msot wanted to play number 8 that hasnt been a number 8 and spend £60m on. Of coruse it is only two games and there is obviously a tactical and individuaol reason he wanted him so much, so could prove Ten Hag to be a genius as didnt see anyone naming Mouny as the midfield signing......but I really didnt see it and the evidence so far is very concernig ntactally.
This current side is a cb injury away from beig in trouble at the back, a cm signing is desperately needed when he has already signed 3 and loaned one and we have 3 cf, one siged injured, one may not return and the other should have been sold ages ago.
And other clubs outside last seasons top two look much stronger this season. Without a quality cb, cm and cf if Greenwood doesnt come back to compete.....my predcition is we finish outside of the top six......similar to the mourinho/Ole second season though not playing as badly.......and we know what happened to them.
I really think the Mount signing could turn into a catastrophic one for Ten Hag and his future here. Mount is a decent player, but wrong player in the wrong position, only a quality signing or a seriously good first season for Mainoo saves him. He has made a couple of mistakes in his time here, but that is a huge one I fear
Two of those managers had a first seaso just as good as Ten Hags and failed miserably in there second seasons. The other one was an interim manager that failed msierably but very much knew what the team needed and wasnt scared to say it.....and Ten Hag didnt even give him time to hear his advice
I have been happy with Ten Hag so far. But I am still reserving judgement until the second season is completed after false dawns before.
On his arrival had all these online tactical experts raving about his brilliant tactical acumen, Christmas last year there was a lot of people saying what a great window it had been....not saying he has failed, but people have gone overbaord on both counts so far......
1st year we spent £80m odd on Antony, £70m on a 30year old cm, nearly £60m on a cb, bought a lb and were left making a free signing as our second cm signing.
We needed a couple more signings but overspent on what we bought and failed to move players on, jsut losing several for nothing.
Now that is the first window for a new manager, so not blaming or juding that on him, but we ended up short in midfield and up front having to make loan signings that didnt really work.
This summer I felt we needed seven signings and several more moved on, too early to judge but I am not convinced unless there is major movement at the end of the window that it has been a good one, several clubs have done better.....and I feel it is going to be a similar window to last season and Ten Hag can be judged this time:
Onana - This is his good move as it looks like the club were quite happy to keep DeGea
Hoijlund - I have a feeling he will be great but cant judge this one at all at the moment
Mount - Now this is the one that sets of alarm bells for me personally. Keep in mind Ten Hag has now signed three central midfielders, we already have Fernandes and we also have Mainoo and Hannibal, two very talented youngsters.......yet most fans are desperate for a cm signing, that isnt good.
Casemeiro is in his 30s, some already concerned about his fitness. I personally think its just a drop of form and maybe tiredness last season, this season is because he is isolated so far and asked to do far too much....and that is the midfield balance
Eriksen - He is done
Mount - I am just baffled by this one, player he msot wanted to play number 8 that hasnt been a number 8 and spend £60m on. Of coruse it is only two games and there is obviously a tactical and individuaol reason he wanted him so much, so could prove Ten Hag to be a genius as didnt see anyone naming Mouny as the midfield signing......but I really didnt see it and the evidence so far is very concernig ntactally.
This current side is a cb injury away from beig in trouble at the back, a cm signing is desperately needed when he has already signed 3 and loaned one and we have 3 cf, one siged injured, one may not return and the other should have been sold ages ago.
And other clubs outside last seasons top two look much stronger this season. Without a quality cb, cm and cf if Greenwood doesnt come back to compete.....my predcition is we finish outside of the top six......similar to the mourinho/Ole second season though not playing as badly.......and we know what happened to them.
I really think the Mount signing could turn into a catastrophic one for Ten Hag and his future here. Mount is a decent player, but wrong player in the wrong position, only a quality signing or a seriously good first season for Mainoo saves him. He has made a couple of mistakes in his time here, but that is a huge one I fear
I think this is exactly the same way we played during the last phase of the previous season with Sabitzer in Mount’s position instead. We were dreadful mostly then. It’s probably the reason we started working on Mount transfer seen as an upgrade during that period.
He's done a very good job with our defence but our attack is worryingly average. I really can't think of a better way to describe our attack than average. There's a group of half decent players there with none of them being world class and none of them being able to change a game on their own. Then we come to the midfield. His idea of playing two 8's is extremely concerning and I know it's very early days but whatever he's seen in Mount, it doesn't look like it's going to work, especially if he's playing Bruno in the same CM. Bruno is a better player than Mount and the two 8's just isn't working so Mount has to be dropped. We desperately need quality CM to dictate play and retain the ball and I don't understand why this wasn't the managers priority. Maybe he thought Mount was that player or maybe he thinks we can actually compete with Casemiro alone in DM and Mount running around like a headless chicken. This makes it even more worrying as we can all see it isn't going to work.
I genuinely like Ten Hag and like some of what I've seen last season but this current midfield set up is extremely concerning. He strikes me as a stubborn manager who will stick with this idea of two 8's, which will likely be the making or breaking of him.
I genuinely like Ten Hag and like some of what I've seen last season but this current midfield set up is extremely concerning. He strikes me as a stubborn manager who will stick with this idea of two 8's, which will likely be the making or breaking of him.
People will think me crazy but I think we should consider playing Maguire in LCB with Varane in RCB. Thus, one of them can push up to midfield.
Haaland does what a CF should do first and foremost before pressing, tracking back or whatever new age bollocks: convert chances into goals. He does that in numbers and with a consistency that Rashford doesn't. In fairness to Marcus, we all know he isn't a CF, so the comparison will always be harsh on him.
De Bruyne is a significantly better player than Bruno, he can do anything he does better (bar penalties) while not displaying any of his flaws. Maybe I'm being generous since 1) I don't watch him anywhere near as much as Bruno, 2) it is typically in big games and 3) in better company, but my take is de Bruyne is a player that can control and dominate games while Bruno is an indisciplined mercurial type with occasional flashes of brilliance.
Why wouldn’t you just have Martinez do that? Varane isn’t good enough on the ball for it
Some very good analysis on Ten Hag’s tactics, worth sticking with the whole thread.
Did you watch the game ?
No way did Chelsea have more/better chances in that West Ham game then we had against Spurs. 5+ goals easily ? You're having a laugh. Chelsea hardly had a decent chance all game. (Other than a penalty).
Aerial duel.
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