Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Andersonson]

Really don’t think we’re going to “rely” on him, reports are that even when he is fit, he’ll be eased into the team

In the presser ETH said " This is the reason why we bought a striker" ...

 

[UnitedSofa]

In the presser ETH said " This is the reason why we bought a striker" ...

Doesn’t say anything about him being played every single game or being relied upon

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Yeah true. Have to remember that, a real positive.

Crazy this team is to go from that first half performance to what they served up second half. Most inconsistent team I've seen.

Next we will start celebrating being good for 15 minutes.


Football is a game of 90 minutes results. We won our 1999 champions league final by scoring in the last 3 minutes, does anyone remember fondly Bayern Munich for all their play throughout that game?

We need results in over 50 games. How to achieve those results should be the main question not pampering defeats with we played well in a few minutes.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Yeah true. Have to remember that, a real positive.

Crazy this team is to go from that first half performance to what they served up second half. Most inconsistent team I've seen.

Next we will start celebrating being good for 15 minutes.


Football is a game of 90 minutes results. We won our 1999 champions league final by scoring in the last 3 minutes, does anyone remember fondly Bayern Munich for all their play throughout that game?

We need results in over 50 games. How to achieve those results should be the main question not pampering defeats with we played well in a few minutes.

 

[ErikElevenHag]

Someone ? Must be someone on my ignore list because I haven't seen it, so not a big miss for me.

Anyway, I already talked about that above :



I was way too salty of Klopp going to Liverpool back then because he was one of my biggest candidates for the United job when he was at BVB and when Ferguson left then Moyes sacked, then I found him at our biggest rival while we were stuck with LVG playing insomnia curing football every week. I was trying to convince myself he's failing there when he was playing good football while winning nothing, but it was clear for me they managed to hit the jackpot.

You should probably unblock them, shows how much you're full of it.

Nice explanation too for calling someone tactically naive.

 

[Zed is not dead]

Of course the DOF changes things if they're given enough power. Whether at PSG and their strategy, moving from Galaticos to primarily French up and coming) players and to strength in centre of the park rather than just flashy forwards, to Chelsea's greater focus upon young players, to Brighton's move towards higher-grade technical players, even through to Villa. Different sized clubs, different ownership models, but DOFs have change the direction of it. Even Tottenham signing physical but also technically sharp players like Sarr, and the newer batch of defenders, is DOF led and an indication of the direction they're looking to head in.

All you need is for a DOF to say, I don't care if I only get 40m for the lot and we have to spread the cost on FFP, we're getting Maguire and McTom out and reinvesting it in an up and coming C,M with the right technical attributes and physical strength and willingness to take the ball under pressure and move it progressively, and that already changes the composition of the side. Likewise, buying one of those kinds of players rather than Mount and spending the remainder plus 15m from sales on someone like Orban - again, that changes our attacking options and the balance of the side. a DOF blocks a nearly 90m move for Antony, and scouts a Casemiro replacement as soon as we sign him. All of those things change the side.

Our fans are remarkably patient - this has bene spelled out on innumerable occasions here before and results from SAF era in large part and the mythos around the 'manager' and 'giving him time' as well as 'backing players' (regardless of whether the manager themselves is reducing them to wrecks in the dressing room). This, combined with lack of accountability within the club, is why we won't succeed unless miracle happens in terms of youth players with the right profiles coming through. At the moment , with other sides strengthening their 'core' and the manager's inability to understand the problems (problems so many people foresaw here before and just after mount signed, - problems which almost certainly are rectified just with spending the cash on easily available, up and coming good young players, just based on their playing profiles, regardless of whether that means trophy success), finishing in something like 8th place is really not inconceivable. If a decent DOF working at any 2nd level European club had access to our budget and profile, along with being allowed to sell players who don't fit for whatever the immediate market take-up prices are (as a kind of 'investment' in declaring losses) they could solve 80% of the issues there and then

Well if you think that the DOF did all this at PSG…
Campos is the prime example that a DoF works well in given structures and looks utter shite in another.

He is absolutely useless at PSG apart from signing Jorge Mendes players and playing ti Mbappe’s demands.
The « French project » at PSG was among Mbappe’s requests of last summer when renewing, along with getting rid of Neymar and other players of the past PSG era. They buy 3 CMs every year and never find balance. Even this season they are severely short on creativity in the middle of the park. Hardly the signs of a great DOF-led project.

A DoF is only as good as the structure in place.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

Of course the DOF changes things if they're given enough power. Whether at PSG and their strategy, moving from Galaticos to primarily French up and coming) players and to strength in centre of the park rather than just flashy forwards, to Chelsea's greater focus upon young players, to Brighton's move towards higher-grade technical players, even through to Villa. Different sized clubs, different ownership models, but DOFs have change the direction of it. Even Tottenham signing physical but also technically sharp players like Sarr, and the newer batch of defenders, is DOF led and an indication of the direction they're looking to head in.

All you need is for a DOF to say, I don't care if I only get 40m for the lot and we have to spread the cost on FFP, we're getting Maguire and McTom out and reinvesting it in an up and coming C,M with the right technical attributes and physical strength and willingness to take the ball under pressure and move it progressively, and that already changes the composition of the side. Likewise, buying one of those kinds of players rather than Mount and spending the remainder plus 15m from sales on someone like Orban - again, that changes our attacking options and the balance of the side. a DOF blocks a nearly 90m move for Antony, and scouts a Casemiro replacement as soon as we sign him. All of those things change the side.

Our fans are remarkably patient - this has bene spelled out on innumerable occasions here before and results from SAF era in large part and the mythos around the 'manager' and 'giving him time' as well as 'backing players' (regardless of whether the manager themselves is reducing them to wrecks in the dressing room). This, combined with lack of accountability within the club, is why we won't succeed unless miracle happens in terms of youth players with the right profiles coming through. At the moment , with other sides strengthening their 'core' and the manager's inability to understand the problems (problems so many people foresaw here before and just after mount signed, - problems which almost certainly are rectified just with spending the cash on easily available, up and coming good young players, just based on their playing profiles, regardless of whether that means trophy success), finishing in something like 8th place is really not inconceivable. If a decent DOF working at any 2nd level European club had access to our budget and profile, along with being allowed to sell players who don't fit for whatever the immediate market take-up prices are (as a kind of 'investment' in declaring losses) they could solve 80% of the issues there and then

He's talking specifically about abandoning the idea that the first team should be built around Bruno and Rashford. The main creator and the main goalscorer for this team. Does he have a point? I count myself amongst the people who believe that he does. But there's no way this is going to happen at United under this ownership and their modus operandi. Not in this universe. You can blame ETH for believing he's good enough to undertake the task, just as you can blame Solskjaer for coming up with the box in our axis that consisted of Maguire/Lindelof and McFred to accommodate two forwards (Martial/Rashford) who barely do any defensive work, it's fine by me. But if we're going to discuss the "core" tactical issues that prevent us from being a truly top side despite all the money spent, it goes way beyond the manager. Oh, and if you truly believe that the Glazers will risk CL qualification for more than a single season to build a young side that may or may not challenge a few years down the line, you're living in La-La Land.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Well if you think that the DOF did all this at PSG…
Campos is the prime example that a DoF works well in given structures and looks utter shite in another.

He is absolutely useless at PSG apart from signing Jorge Mendes players and playing ti Mbappe’s demands.
The « French project » at PSG was among Mbappe’s requests of last summer when renewing, along with getting rid of Neymar and other players of the past PSG era. They buy 3 CMs every year and never find balance. Even this season they are severely short on creativity in the middle of the park. Hardly the signs of a great DOF-led project.

A DoF is only as good as the structure in place.

That last point is key and I think when most people say "we need a DOF", what they're really saying is "we need a proper structure in place".

 

[el3mel]

Here's a couple tifo vids if you actually want to know

Why don't you tell us yourself instead of bringing some videos?

 

[VP89]

He has had 2 pre season's and managers come in not needing 2 summers etc. to make it obvious the style they play

It's really not 2 games. Its an over exaggeration to say he is shit and it's almost as bad to ignore our form since the Carabao cup final and pass it off as 2 games

He is not in the position he was in this time last year, he rightfully is and should be under more scrutiny

Last season he took a completely disjointed squad and came leaps and bounds. If anyone is using last season as a stick to beat him with then that's even more deluded.

 

[FootyGirl88]

 

[el3mel]

You have never been a fan of ETH though. I don't need free time to look up your posts. You have been embarrassing when it comes to opposing ETH because it started long back going as back as Brentford game . Fecking second game.

I'm not a blind supporter for him, that's for sure, neither did he put on any miraculous work to deserve such blind support either. He's not bad but he's way too overrated by many here. United hasn't improved as much as people are convincing themselves to.

Another season in which our best shot is finishing top 4 and trying for a domestic cup. Congratulations on such improvement after ton of money spent.

 

[Baxquux]

He's talking specifically about abandoning the idea that the first team should be built around Bruno and Rashford. The main creator and the main goalscorer for this team. Does he have a point? I count myself amongst the people who believe that he does. But there's no way this is going to happen at United under this ownership and their modus operandi. Not in this universe. You can blame ETH for believing he's good enough to undertake the task, just as you can blame Solskjaer for coming up with the box in our axis that consisted of Maguire/Lindelof and McFred to accommodate two forwards (Martial/Rashford) who barely do any defensive work, it's fine by me. But if we're going to discuss the "core" tactical issues that prevent us from being a truly top side despite all the money spent, it goes way beyond the manager. Oh, and if you truly believe that the Glazers will risk CL qualification for more than a single season to build a young side that may or may not challenge a few years down the line, you're living in La-La Land.

Well, my point is based on that same premise- that it goes beyond the manager. And as for the Glazers, a DOF should be able to manage 'businessmen' (aged inheritance-kids) who we have no indication are anything but imbeciles when it comes to football of the non-American variety. Just frame the club model as investment in the 'hottest young players'- the 'most vibrant side'- there's marketing stuff galore you can do with this, especially since with the right scouting to purchasing pipeline (plus a few handy partnerships for domestic and European loans) you can do a scaled up version of Brighton, which costs the club less than it currently spends on fees and wages. At the moment, the club is unduly wasteful when it comes to meeting those purported criteria around 'competitivity' .

 

[bosnian_red]

Why don't you tell us yourself instead of bringing some videos?

Can't be arsed to have a tedious and incredibly boring conversation about tactics when we're all just randoms on a forum.

 

[bond19821982]

I'm not a blind supporter for him, that's for sure, neither did he put on any miraculous work to deserve such blind support either. He's not bad but he's way too overrated by many here. United hasn't improved as much as people are convincing themselves to.

Another season in which our best shot is finishing top 4 and trying for a domestic cup. Congratulations on such improvement after ton of money spent.

You don't start that criticism from the new managers game 2 and that's the point. So don't blame the people who question your motive .

 

[Marwood]

Next we will start celebrating being good for 15 minutes.


Football is a game of 90 minutes results. We won our 1999 champions league final by scoring in the last 3 minutes, does anyone remember fondly Bayern Munich for all their play throughout that game?

We need results in over 50 games. How to achieve those results should be the main question not pampering defeats with we played well in a few minutes.

Well yeah that's all obvious. Not sure why that means we can't discuss a half of football. Nothing wrong in saying it was a decent 45min.

 

[Loon]

Well yeah that's all obvious. Not sure why that means we can't discuss a half of football. Nothing wrong in saying it was a decent 45min.

Agreed, I just hope the manager and staff can establish what exactly happened at half-time and in the second half which changed things. That’s the work which needs to be done, fast.

Gary Neville knows more about football than I, and I found it distressing when he said the subs were thrown on in the hope of changing it. I’d like to think, and was under the impression, Ten Hag was a bit more thoughtful than that. I hope he is.

 

[Moriarty]

What's that down to then? Fitness levels?

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Well yeah that's all obvious. Not sure why that means we can't discuss a half of football. Nothing wrong in saying it was a decent 45min.

Decent 45min to what end? This game was a very poor game from United.
Correct me if I'm wrong, the last Top 9 Away win happened during Ole reign.
Something fundamentally is wrong in how we setup away from home

 

[Cassidy]

What's that down to then? Fitness levels?

Seems like it to me

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Really don’t think we’re going to “rely” on him, reports are that even when he is fit, he’ll be eased into the team

Also our issues go way past a single striker that may or may not bang in goals

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

We were 100% better then them in the 1st, had 3 times their xG, missed a couple sitters, had a clear pen not called. That's away to a big club in their first home game of the season. Quite simply in big games if you aren't clinical and you don't get the rub of the green then they are likely to have their bounces eventually. 2nd half was shit yeah.

Agree. The more concerning thing isn’t that we missed chances or lost, it’s that we consistently get worse as the game goes on in both our decision making /play style and lack of energy. The last 20 minutes were basically hoofball to half hearted Rashford runs. Which is the opposite of what you need to do when trying to get back into the game.

 

[Andersonson]

Doesn’t say anything about him being played every single game or being relied upon

You know the media and our fanbase. If he doesnt score enough the drama will be massive

 

[Marwood]

Agreed, I just hope the manager and staff can establish what exactly happened at half-time and in the second half which changed things. That’s the work which needs to be done, fast.

Gary Neville knows more about football than I, and I found it distressing when he said the subs were thrown on in the hope of changing it. I’d like to think, and was under the impression, Ten Hag was a bit more thoughtful than that. I hope he is.

Yeah the subs do feel more hopeful than anything.

But that's down to his options. Which is down to ETH's transfers.

I've been saying this for ages but it's all about recruitment and after a couple of dodgy signings its now even more important.

Decent 45min to what end? This game was a very poor game from United.
Correct me if I'm wrong, the last Top 9 Away win happened during Ole reign.
Something fundamentally is wrong in how we setup away from home

It wasn't very poor. I know you don't like to discuss anything other than a full 90mins but in reality we were the better team for the first 45min. We objectively played well. I don't see any use in refusing to acknowledge that. The second half was poor.

But if we had better finishers the game could have been over at half time

It's a cliché but goals change games. You get that goal when on top and the game becomes easier. Miss a few chances and psychologically this team really struggles.

 

[flameinthesun]

Nice thread. I’ve been saying it in the post match thread.
It’s the common theme across all our managers, our players jog back and don’t track their runners. To me this is on the players, not the manager

I've been thinking about this since yesterday. The main culprits for tracking back are the same players. AWB tends to jog back and will often let his player get the ball in space. Rashford we know very rarely tracks back or makes effort if its not a run behind. Garnacho usually runs back but the first goal pretty much came from him not running back and Shaw not engaging early enough.

I said something similar near the end of Ole's reign and during Ralf's reign, but if you want to build an elite team that can press, hold possession and outwork other teams then you need to get players who inherently have those attributes. AWB for example, he had a good season last year but even so is not a player the elite managers who want to play possession/pressing based football would have. His positioning, general game intelligence, technique etc are all poor/average. Now that's not saying he isn't a good player, on the contrary I think for a prime mourinho team he would be great. Its about the type of football the manager wants to play.

In that sense if you were to apply that to the first 11 and say what players have the combination of game intelligence, technique, engine etc that is required to be an elite possesion/pressing team, not a lot of players pass that test. As unpopular as it is the core of the team does not pass that test including Rashford, Bruno, Case, Varane. Those 4 in particular always look better when the game is simpler i.e. Rashford can just run into space, Bruno can spam through balls, Case just has to mop up, Varane doesnt really need to be part of the build up phase. I'm not saying those players are not very good players, just that they are not the optimal players for an elite possession/pressing style.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Yeah the subs do feel more hopeful than anything.

But that's down to his options. Which is down to ETH's transfers.

I've been saying this for ages but it's all about recruitment and after a couple of dodgy signings its now even more important.



It wasn't very poor. I know you don't like to discuss anything other than a full 90mins but in reality we were the better team for the first 45min. We objectively played well. I don't see any use in refusing to acknowledge that. The second half was poor.

But if we had better finishers the game could have been over at half time

It's a cliché but goals change games. You get that goal when on top and the game becomes easier. Miss a few chances and psychologically this team really struggles.

I hated it even last summer. Giving a manager full authority on transfers and targets is fecking stupid, not even Pep has that. And it was obvious that Ten Hag preferred familiarity in almost all of his targets so we were hardly using the scouting network much.

Transfers like Antony and Mount can set a club back years if they aren’t rectified quickly. It’s an underrated part of City’s business. For all the calls of cheats etc Pep and that staff indentify quicker than any other club in the world when a player isn’t good enough for their team and move to replace them

 

[Marwood]

I hated it even last summer. Giving a manager full authority on transfers and targets is fecking stupid, not even Pep has that. And it was obvious that Ten Hag preferred familiarity in almost all of his targets so we were hardly using the scouting network much.

Transfers like Antony and Mount can set a club back years if they aren’t rectified quickly. It’s an underrated part of City’s business. For all the calls of cheats etc Pep and that staff indentify quicker than any other club in the world when a player isn’t good enough for their team and move to replace them

I noticed Fergie last week said you have to trust your scouts. Seems almost too coincidental for him to say that when clearly ETH doesn't trust his scouts.

 

[lostcauz]

What's that down to then? Fitness levels?

Effort and intensity, Rashford did the same thing last season.

 

[Abhinav]

Criticism of Eth for the midfield imbalance and a lack of general fitness are fair game. However, I feel, there is a huge overreaction on the forum right now, reaching vitriolic levels and is unjustified. The manager has earned enough credit in the bank to not be vilified by his own supporters 2 games into the season.

 

[bosnian_red]

Agree. The more concerning thing isn’t that we missed chances or lost, it’s that we consistently get worse as the game goes on in both our decision making /play style and lack of energy. The last 20 minutes were basically hoofball to half hearted Rashford runs. Which is the opposite of what you need to do when trying to get back into the game.

Yeah I don't like how our players lose composure when chasing games. Ties in with their lack of composure when finishing chances.

 

[altodevil]

I noticed Fergie last week said you have to trust your scouts. Seems almost too coincidental for him to say that when clearly ETH doesn't trust his scouts.

Our recruitment has been woeful for a decade. Ten Hag being wary of our scouts is pretty justified.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Our recruitment has been woeful for a decade. Ten Hag being wary of our scouts is pretty justified.

Our recruitment has been woeful largely because it's been manager-driven and our scouts have been ignored completely over the years.

 

[SATA]

I know it’s been only two games so far but i am starting to worry. It’s his second season now and i’m really expecting a Ten Hag imprint on the team after getting all his targets in. Let’s hope we can really kick on in the next game and beyond

 

[Castia]

Just watching Chelsea who have a new manager and what feels like 50 new players and they looked settled with a game plan and tactic that lets them dominate games

I just don’t understand that after 12 months and 2 pre seasons we don’t seem to have an identity or way of playing it’s unacceptable

 

[LARulz]

Last season he took a completely disjointed squad and came leaps and bounds. If anyone is using last season as a stick to beat him with then that's even more deluded.

Are you seriously saying our form between Carabao cup final to end of season was good or even good enough?

We made getting top 4 a question near the end when it wasn't in Feb

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Just watching Chelsea who have a new manager and what feels like 50 new players and they looked settled with a game plan and tactic that lets them dominate games

I just don’t understand that after 12 months and 2 pre seasons we don’t seem to have an identity or way of playing it’s unacceptable

Look at the technical level of their squad. Can you see players losing the ball recklessly like Bruno or Casemiro or Rashford or Garnacho or Wan Bissaka

 

[flameinthesun]

Our recruitment has been woeful largely because it's been manager-driven and our scouts have been ignored completely over the years.

Yeah I would second this, it feels like when every manager gets sacked we end up hearing how the majority of players were their signings and they ignored recommendations from scouts. So if anything we should probably empower our scouts but I'd imagine that would only work with a true DoF who leads on transfers.

Im theory it makes sense, its easy to bash our scouts but the reality of it is we probably have first in class scouts but whether they get listened to is the issue. If EtH wants to play a certain style then I would imagine as long as that style is communicated well to the DoF and scouting team they would be in a better position to identify players that not only fit the style but also the league than a manager.

With these signings being blatantly EtH's decisions unfortunately he will probably live or die by them. As it stands the team he inherited, when they were confident, was a team that could challenge for 4th or 3rd. As much as I back him and still do, if his signings not only fail to achieve that but also fail to implement the football he wants then he will be on pretty thin ice. As it stands I have faith in him still.

 

[mav_9me]

Are you seriously saying our form between Carabao cup final to end of season was good or even good enough?

We made getting top 4 a question near the end when it wasn't in Feb

Yeah but that will happen when we are stretched to the max playing 62 games with a thin squad.

 

[AshRK]

Dunno mate, these posts from 2017 kinda contradict that you could see what Klopp was doing (and there's plenty more):

This is brilliant and a great way to shut moaners like him. The guy just moans and moans without saying much.

 

[mav_9me]

Just watching Chelsea who have a new manager and what feels like 50 new players and they looked settled with a game plan and tactic that lets them dominate games

I just don’t understand that after 12 months and 2 pre seasons we don’t seem to have an identity or way of playing it’s unacceptable

Not to pick on you but I see this from a lot of people. Not sure why. The identity is clear. We want to press high, regain the ball more in thier half for quick turnovers and attacks. The other part of that is what's lacking right now, which is the ability to keep the ball, patience, probing with the ball. Fairly similar approach to City and Arsenal. Except it isn't working great right now.

The first half gave a glimpse of how we want to play. 2nd half everything went to shit.