The players have shown they are capable of improving and performing at a high level though - it's not all about the manager. A player still needs the ability to perform and they have done that. Poch has been a great influence but we do have a really talented group of relatively young players.
Eric Dier | Poch: “He is an important player for us and the idea is not to sell him."
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The players have shown they are capable of improving and performing at a high level though - it's not all about the manager. A player still needs the ability to perform and they have done that. Poch has been a great influence but we do have a really talented group of relatively young players.
Does them playing better coincide with playing 3 at the back?
Of course you don't have to say that. No manager can improve a player if player doesn't show the desire to improve.
Well I shouldnt have to say it however somebody was insinuating that our players are average or at best 'good' and that we were only a good team because of our manager.
No, they have improved greatly (Rose in particular) over the course of the last 2 seasons and before we changed to 3 at the back. I do think we have chosen to go 3 at the back partially because of their improvement however as it really does bring the best out of them (and Eriksen more importantly imo).
The thing that I find hilarious about this current pissing contest is that even at our worst we are still winning trophies, Spurs fold like cheap suits against the mighty Leicester in their only title race in decades, have embarrassed themsleves in Europe, doing worse than they did under Harry Redknapp, and yet this lack of trophies and treading water as a club that just makes up the numbers in the top 4 will be lauded and Pochettino patted on the back because the team is youngish and most importanlty filled with half the Ingerlund team.
That it? Here we go again. You have a group trying to have a reasonable chat and then you have somebody try and bring it all down again. Well done. People go on about Spurs fans but some of you lot are just as bad.
Reading through this thread was quite enjoyable, not gonna post on the Spurs v United though, tempting as it is. 
But about Dier. I personally think he is a really good player, as well as being very young for a defensive player. And that some people are trying to put him down for not being on the level of Verthongen/Alderweireld or Wanyama / Dembele should remember that he broke into the first team last season. He has room for improvement, and what I see is a player who works hard on and off the pitch, I believe he can become a great defender or defensive midfielder. I feel as though many people don't rate him since they want to take Hererras side in a silly media blown up argument, Dier even said 'I'll see him soon' as a joke and the media ran with it.
Despite this, as a player I don't think he is invaluable to the squad. And just like Wanyama could slot into defensive mid, it's not hard to imagine us being able to purchase someone with similar quality instead of Dier should he decide to push for a move for whatever reason. Having said that, I don't see us wanting to sell such a valuable member of the squad, team cohesion and team spirit is valued highly and unless a silly offer comes, we would not want to sell. For this reason I don't see United buying Dier because I don't think Spurs will sell him at anywhere near 'market value', especially not to a Rival top 4 side, so you should look elsewhere if you want to spend your money wisely.
But about Dier. I personally think he is a really good player, as well as being very young for a defensive player. And that some people are trying to put him down for not being on the level of Verthongen/Alderweireld or Wanyama / Dembele should remember that he broke into the first team last season. He has room for improvement, and what I see is a player who works hard on and off the pitch, I believe he can become a great defender or defensive midfielder. I feel as though many people don't rate him since they want to take Hererras side in a silly media blown up argument, Dier even said 'I'll see him soon' as a joke and the media ran with it.
Despite this, as a player I don't think he is invaluable to the squad. And just like Wanyama could slot into defensive mid, it's not hard to imagine us being able to purchase someone with similar quality instead of Dier should he decide to push for a move for whatever reason. Having said that, I don't see us wanting to sell such a valuable member of the squad, team cohesion and team spirit is valued highly and unless a silly offer comes, we would not want to sell. For this reason I don't see United buying Dier because I don't think Spurs will sell him at anywhere near 'market value', especially not to a Rival top 4 side, so you should look elsewhere if you want to spend your money wisely.
Sure... A race that was only a race since the media needed the league to be a race, just like the media have been desperately looking for a challenger to Chelsea for a while now. Truth was that Leicester got a perfect storm and continued to grind out results for the whole season longest time. We had a slow start and were the team who stayed on their tail the longest (overtaking Arsenal and Manchester City in the process). How on earth does this constitute as 'folding'?
We are chasing squad players. Dier is not good enough for where we want to go. Good and versatile player for a team that pushes for top 4 regularly, but not good enough for an actual top team.
This is a United board, we welcome fans of other clubs way more than any other site and I am far from antagonistic towards oppos, but reading some fo the crap in here boiled my piss and I responded, it's one thing to have Real, Barca and Bayern fans giving if out, but some Dortmund and Spurs fans have gotten really smug and arrogant recently despite the fact that for all their crowing about their young teams and pretty football they've still not won a damn thing, all the while talking shit to us when our team at it's worst is still winning more than your supposed best team in years
Going into the Chelsea game you could still apply pressure, still compete until it was mathematically impossible and at the Bridge you folded like a cheap suit with no composure under pressure and showing a lack of mental discipline when things heated up, a real contender sees out their end of the deal, they don't hand it over.
The only way this would have made sense is if he was cheap and homegrown, so we would have signed a decent squad player and be okay with the quota of homegrown players if we sell some of our players (Rooney, Carrick, Young, Jones, Smalling, Shaw) in the following 18 months.
However, him costing a bomb and actually not being homegrown would make this signing bad and pointless. Do not want.
However, him costing a bomb and actually not being homegrown would make this signing bad and pointless. Do not want.
This is bollocks, City had a financial take over, still not richer than United. Madrid are backed by the Spanish government and not as rich as United. The statement that you'd "blow United out of the water" is ridiculous, as United is the richest club in world football. As you said, they're making the right decisions marketing wise which would only result in further exposure and more money.
Your opinions on Pogba are laughable, claiming he isn't good enough to dominate this league when he's been influential for a Juventus team that has dominated the Serie- A constantly, whilst also coming up against some of the best midfielders in world football in the CL, a tournament Spurs can't even seem to make out of the group stages, for all your "dominance" over United in the EPL.
His decision making requires attention sure, but claiming he doesn't have the ability to dominate this league just proves you haven't watched him properly or you're clutching at straws. He's one of the best talents of his generation, judging him on his first season return to a new league, playing a new team that is struggling, whilst expected to be the catalyst at the age of 24 doesn't change that fact.
Also how can you be sure that United can't dominate again? You go on to claim all clubs have money now. That's true, but you don't take into consideration everything United has that other clubs don't. Fabinho, Kessie, Griezmann, just to name a few are all players who have come out and spoken about the pull united has, even taking into consideration their current predictament.
The same way you argue United won't ever dominate due to money, could be said for all clubs in the Premier League.
I could claim Spurs will never win shite cause given the past few years it's evident your manager and squad are full of bottlejobs, managing to come third in a two horse race last season, getting knocked out in groups of CL then knocked out in EL by a team most people didn't have any knowledge of. For all intents and purposes, Spurs could be another Arsenal.
Also it's funny you use Uniteds shortcomings this past season as proof they will never dominate but then go on to state Chelsea are a footballing model superior to United's. Were you claiming as much when they were 10th last season? If anything they just go on to show what some new personnel and motivation can do for a team, who's to say United couldn't do the same.
I actually like Spurs, out of all our rivals they're the team I hate the least. Their manager is respectable, they play a good brand of football and give youth a chance, but to claim United will never dominate again is being naive.
I can't argue Spurs will never win anything because they're bottle jobs because things change in an instant in football, I don't see how United given their money, prestige etc. are an exemption to this? Any of the top 6 teams could go onto dominate. Our football under Jose has improved dramatically and we have been the far superior team in about 90% of our games this season and had it not been for absolutely dreadful finishing and complacency we'd be amongst the top. Our highest goal-scorer has missed the most chances of any of the strikers in the EPL. Upgrading positions and turning those draws into wins is hardly an unbelievable scenario.
United has been through far worse than these past few years and recovered.
Shambles of a post, a rant that went wrong just about everywhere, however it scored well for entertainment value.
Don't agree at all. We drew away at Chelsea at the Stanford Bridge, a team who actually got up for the game and were defending champions, not an easy game. Yes, during that game things got heated, and the occasion did affect the physicality, we didn't play it perfect by all means, but what I saw was a team who were desperate to do whatever they could to win, not a team that folded. Ultimately we weren't good enough, but that's different. This negative experience of being out of the title race then caused us to completely take our eyes off the ball since we couldn't possibly come third. And because of that we managed to even do that.
It's quite hypocritical to criticize a team who are showing passion to win and call it 'folding' when I'm sure you loved the old matches between United and Arsenal...
Man Utd are a big proposition to you because you support them, they are a big proposition to players that they offer big wages too.
They really aren't very exciting to people in the south of England and certainly not in London, I think most players are a bit like most fans and couldn't give a shit how many shirts a club sells in Africa and Asia ot how many Twitter followers they have.
The fact that you also play in a dead atmosphere at home doesn't help. In short you've quickly become just another English club who happens to pay well.
It's nothing against Utd but their fall from grace has been rapid and you are now just a n other battling to qualify for the CL.
No, failing to get the job done through mental fragility and lack of composure is nerver something I've enjoyed, it's a sign of weakness. Spurs were winning that game and let Chelsea bait and sucker them in, handing the title to Leicester, that's poor and this season there has been no improvement, another campaign of dragging along behind the winners with still zero pots in the cabinet, now I wouldn't mind that if there was some humility accompanying it, things take time, but that's not what I'm seeing in here. Look, I have nothing against Spurs, they aren't a Liverpool or City to me as a fan and I think you have a better starting 11 overall than us right now, but at least achieve something before trying to talk shit about United.
Keep it on topic...
The topic is Eric Dier by the way.
The topic is Eric Dier by the way.
Yes they are good, not great. Otherwise you would have won more than 1 KO tie in last 3 years.
Edit: just saw the mod note. Apologies for off topic post.
I posted on this yesterday, but God I hope we don't go in for Dier it would be a monumental waste of money. He simply doesn't improve us, he's not good enough to be a centre back for us, and in midfield he's alright but he's not worth nearly 40 million. I'd honestly prefer to just stick Blind in midfield if it meant we didn't have to blow yet another 40 million.
He's simply not at the level required for a team that wants to challenge for league titles, we might has well have stuck with Schneiderlin.
As for the Spurs vs United nonsense is it really still worth debating? Neither side will convince the other or come close to.
He's simply not at the level required for a team that wants to challenge for league titles, we might has well have stuck with Schneiderlin.
As for the Spurs vs United nonsense is it really still worth debating? Neither side will convince the other or come close to.
Yeah, facts are boring for the delusional, basically a bunch of Spurs fans with cheque's their team can't cash now taking the hump because United fans are calling them on their smug bullshit, you lot came in here starting all of this because United fans don't want Dier, don't start things if you don't want there to be anything, it's easy and then you wont be bored. As for the topic, I don't think Dier is all that good and certainly not good enough for what we need, he's fine as what you are using him as, a good, flexible option for the back 3 and DM cover.
I haven't really seen a lot of spurs fans talking about how brilliant we are or shit about United, but fine, never mind.
@SirHenryPercy I agree, would rather see passion an aggression than a team just going through the motions, it also feels like the team (and Poch) is more mature this year so I expect a more patient approach. I personally feel Poch is mainly to blame for the Chelsea result and finishing 3rd instead of 2nd last season for being unable to focus the team and getting too emotional. Of course, he was also mainly responsible for getting us into a position to be in control of 2nd position to begin with so not blaming him.
It's funny that you haven't seen those Spurs fans yet you just tagged the main culprit in this thread, the reason most United fans in here are responding as they are and why this thread has become heated.
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Can't believe this has made 9 pages 
Enough with the 'you lot' stuff please - if you have issue with one or two Spurs fans then call them out and give off to them - it's the 'you lot' bollocks that is so irritating. Most of us here are quite reasonable and capable of a balanced debate yet we all get lumped in with the one or two crazies and we all get abuse from the likes of you. It needs to stop, it really does.
Not accurate. Spurs have more 5 more points now than we did at the same stage last season and we're in the FA Cup semis. In fact Spurs have improved every season - season on season - since Pochettino took over.
Can't believe this has made 9 pages
The Spurs guys are influencing the discussion here. If he played for Everton or Southampton, we would have 4 pages at maximum. Thats what he would deserve. The most underwhelming player we have been linked with so far.
Every single thread is full of Spurs or Chelsea fans posting total shite these days. Whats happened to this place.
Actually if you look back it was Man Utd supporters (and one bonkers spurs fan) that entirely derailed the thread.
This is ManUtd forum, so anything negative on ManUtd would be replied at least by one or another ManUtd fan. Not ideal but when some opposition fan shit talks about the club then you should expect backlash.
It's so tedious and very rare to see others fans make their point without taking cheap shots.
I'm not going to go around quoting or tagging every poster acting the dick, if the post I made didn't apply to you then it shouldn't bother you, just like when all United fans get lumped into this delusional idea that we are 2 signings away from winning it all and that there's really not much work to do, if I don't feel that way then the post isn't aimed at me and I don't concern myself with it.
Don't give me that, you've were a joke in Europe again, worse than under Harry Redknapp, and are still no closer to being a genuine PL challenger than you were, get back to me when you win something or when you at least go into the last couple of weeks of the season with a genuine shot at winning, not these bullshit little gains, I am not gonna brag that we are doing better in the EL this season or that our points are better than last season in the league, these aren't signifigant improvements that matter.
Mate when you group all Spurs fans together and say things like 'you lot' you bring all Spurs fan into it which includes me. I know you are just a wind up merchant and that's fine, just adjust your firing line to the other wind up merchants on the other side - or better yet go create a wind up merchant thread and get stuck into each other.
Some pundits are saying there are similarlities between dyer and carrick as they both look to pass forwards. spurs are rumored they may want to cash in at 40 mill or above as they have wanyama and dembele.
One link in a newspaper
Actually I think you've been referring to me in a negative way, for your info I'm not a wind up merchant at all. I was talking openly about Dier being a realistic target for Utd when the thread was ambushed, it was nothing to do with me and I just responded to some points that were being made.
I went slightly off topic when I politely asked one guy why he supported Utd if he grew up in Tottenham, he answered and I said fair play, that's it. The rest has been responses to Utd fans saying things that I disagree with.
INHO Utd are a declining force, that is a realistic assessment and hardly revolutionary considering how they've looked post Ferguson, it's not a wind up, it's a very valid argument. They are now more of a marketing company than a football club, that is also a very valid point for discussion. If you want to be an appeaser and try to be popular here that's upto you but we don't all necessarily need to feel popular and will just post candidly.
My posts are what I think, nothing more and that doesn't make me or the other Spurs fan that you refer to as wind ups, it makes us Spurs fans with opinions that are likely to be in healthy contrast to the najority of the posters on this board. I have no issue with Manchester United, I have issues and axes to grind with Arsenal and West Ham because I'm a born and bred Spurs fan. However that won't stop me giving an honest assessment of Manchester Utd on this forum, I think Glaston, Hello, African and Sweech are the same, just giving honest opinions without a care whether it makes them popular members of the forum or not. Football is about opinions, those with differing opinions aren't wind up's, they just say what they think and aren't bothered if it hits a nerve.
There's a lot of negativity to Spurs on here, I love that, it means that people are worried about us. I don't want people saying oh I like Spurs, we aren't here or there to be liked we are playing to win and to knock a few noses out of joint.
Finally Eric Dier is a very valid target for Utd, he's also a player that whilst important to us that we could upgrade in at CB and not now an essential component of our midfield and since last season Wanyana and Winks make the possibility of us moving Dier for good money to strengthen elsewhere possible. In short Dier to Utd is an interesting proposition for all 3 parties and at this stage it's not a move that I would think has no chance of happening, time will tell.[/QUOTE]
Please give up. Just another English club wont be getting players of calibre of Mkhi, Pogba and Ibra. Even with bale money you wouldn't get that players. Only Lloris and Eriksen are decent player you bought. Eriksen because no one wanted him that summer as all clubs had that position covered. You are doing well with the limited resources you got but don't try to bring United down to your level.
No, I'm not a wind up merchant, I'm just not going to ignore trash talk from a set of fans of a club that are less successfull than us when they are at their best and we are at our worst. You need to stop being so sensitive and taking a phrase so to heart, as a United fan I've been lumped in plenty of times but if it doesn't apply to my opinion I don't let it bother me, grow a thicker skin.
I doubt anyone on here is worried about Spurs. The reason there's a lot of negativity towards you is because most of the Spurs fans on this forum are obnoxious, arrogant, and irritating. You all have small man syndrome; always trying to big up Spurs while taking subtle digs at United as if you're on our level. It gets old fast.
What is it he's actually supposed to be good at? I mean I've watched him play plenty of times and I still don't know. That's not a good sign.
He does lots of things ok. He looks like an ok player in a good Spurs team. If you took him out of the Spurs team I'd still think they were a good team.
He's just sort of there. He fits in there because he can cover other people's jobs and is used to the way the team play etc. Every good team has players like that and I can see why Spurs find him useful. I can't see why any of the other top six would find him useful enough to pay money for him.
If he was at United now, who would he play instead of?
We do need a player in that kind of role, but one who's good at it. We already have people who are good at it sometimes, or good at it in certain situations, or ok at it most of the time...we already got rid of two of them due to having too many players like this. We don't need another one. We need a Cante, or Carrick replacement...i.e. someone who is good enough in that position to be nailed down to play there and perform.
He does lots of things ok. He looks like an ok player in a good Spurs team. If you took him out of the Spurs team I'd still think they were a good team.
He's just sort of there. He fits in there because he can cover other people's jobs and is used to the way the team play etc. Every good team has players like that and I can see why Spurs find him useful. I can't see why any of the other top six would find him useful enough to pay money for him.
If he was at United now, who would he play instead of?
We do need a player in that kind of role, but one who's good at it. We already have people who are good at it sometimes, or good at it in certain situations, or ok at it most of the time...we already got rid of two of them due to having too many players like this. We don't need another one. We need a Cante, or Carrick replacement...i.e. someone who is good enough in that position to be nailed down to play there and perform.
Problem I see with signing Dier is that Herrera is better and we're probably looking to improve on him.
Spurs can keep him forever