Eric Dier | Poch: “He is an important player for us and the idea is not to sell him."

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Why doe people think Dier is a dick? He's probably one of the most down to earth nice guys in our squad?

 

[DWelbz19]

Why doe people think Dier is a dick? He's probably one of the most down to earth nice guys in our squad?

Because like half of your squad he turns into a petulant twat, resorting to kicking lumps out of players when things aren't going their way?

 

[balaks]

Because like half of your squad he turns into a petulant twat, resorting to kicking lumps out of players when things aren't going their way?

That was one match last season - it was ridiculous but we have learned from it (I hope) and have been more mature this season. You going to judge him on one match for the rest of his career?

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Because like half of your squad he turns into a petulant twat, resorting to kicking lumps out of players when things aren't going their way?

Really? I didn't think we were seen that way tbh. Our are players worse than "Hacksaw" Herrera or "Elbows" Fellini? I mean do you see where United are on the FairPlay Table compared to us?

 

[DWelbz19]

That was one match last season - it was ridiculous but we have learned from it (I hope) and have been more mature this season. You going to judge him on one match for the rest of his career?

I wouldn't have brought it up if it was only one match. He's out-thugged by the likes of Bamidele and Rose/Walker but he oft gets himself stuck into the aggressive pressing Pochettino system.

 

[balaks]

I wouldn't have brought it up if it was only one match. He's out-thugged by the likes of Bamidele and Rose/Walker but he oft gets himself stuck into the aggressive pressing Pochettino system.

Being aggressive in a high pressing system is an attractive attribute to have - doesnt make him a thug though does it?

 

[DWelbz19]

Really? I didn't think we were seen that way tbh. Our are players worse than "Hacksaw" Herrera or "Elbows" Fellini? I mean do you see where United are on the FairPlay Table compared to us?

Fellaini is a thug (though he hasn't been carded in over 20 games, impressive). Herrera is a petulant bastard. Doesn't take away from Dier et al. being the same.

 

[roonster09]

Really? I didn't think we were seen that way tbh. Our are players worse than "Hacksaw" Herrera or "Elbows" Fellini? I mean do you see where United are on the FairPlay Table compared to us?

None of them comes close to Eric "Thug" Dier.

 

[DWelbz19]

Being aggressive in a high pressing system is an attractive attribute to have - doesnt make him a thug though does it?

It doesn't. But it certainly justifies all those merky greyzone challenges that you typically get away with.

 

[balaks]

Fellaini is a thug (though he hasn't been carded in over 20 games, impressive). Herrera is a petulant bastard. Doesn't take away from Dier et al. being the same.

He really isnt though, yes he lost the plot in the Chelsea match last year, as did most of our team unfortunately but that is the exception rather than the norm with Dier. He is aggressive in the tackle and is a big lad but he isn't a dirty player.

 

[roonster09]

Being aggressive in a high pressing system is an attractive attribute to have - doesnt make him a thug though does it?

No. But tacking like this won't help.

 

[SkeppyRed]

Why doe people think Dier is a dick? He's probably one of the most down to earth nice guys in our squad?

You could say the same about Herrera but he's also got a reputation for petulance on the pitch, despite coming across as a great lad and very down to earth off it.

 

[balaks]

No. But tacking like this won't help.

He is a hard tackler yeah and at times he is going to mistime one and get booked - thats all part of the game. Chelsea game last season aside though there is no proof that he is a thug or a player that goes out to cause harm. This reputation Dier and the team get as being aggressive is true in the sense we have to be aggressive to successfully implement the hard pressing game Poch wants and yes he also is happy for us to foul a player if he is going to get through to score or if there is a dangerous break away, etc. (most teams will do this by the way). We dont go out to hurt anybody though and I wouldnt say any of our players are 'thugs' - though I admit Dele Alli is very petulant at times.

 

[GlastonSpur]

.... do you see where United are on the FairPlay Table compared to us?

Sssh ...

As Krylov said: "One could make this fable clearer still, but let us not disturb the geese."

 

[roonster09]

Really? I didn't think we were seen that way tbh. Our are players worse than "Hacksaw" Herrera or "Elbows" Fellini? I mean do you see where United are on the FairPlay Table compared to us?

Sssh ...

As Krylov said: "One could make this fable clearer still, but let us not disturb the geese."

This season isn't even over.

According to transfermarkt, Last 3 seasons Spurs were lower in the table than ManUtd.

Excluding this season, in the last 5 seasons Spurs were behind ManUtd in 4 seasons. The last time ManUtd finished below Spurs was 5 years ago.

 

[TheReligion]

This season isn't even over.

According to transfermarkt, Last 3 seasons Spurs were lower in the table than ManUtd.

Excluding this season, in the last 5 seasons Spurs were behind ManUtd in 4 seasons. The last time ManUtd finished below Spurs was 5 years ago.

They are hoping being top of the fair play table brings in a trophy.

If it meant entering the Intertoto mind they'd be knocked out by Racing Luxembourg over two legs at Wembley.

 

[roonster09]

They are hoping being top of the fair play table brings in a trophy.

If it meant entering the Intertoto mind they'd be knocked out by Racing Luxembourg over two legs at Wembley.

It's ok though, they will win something in NFL.

 

[balaks]

It's ok though, they will win something in NFL.

If you mean win a huge ton of cash then you would be correct.

 

[Tarrou]

Why do so many Spurs fans make such tits of themselves on this forum? If you're posting on a rivals board you gotta show a bit of respect, and all the other teams supporters seem to be able to manage that while still carrying a debate.

 

[balaks]

Why do so many Spurs fans make such tits of themselves on this forum? If you're posting on a rivals board you gotta show a bit of respect, and all the other teams supporters seem to be able to manage that while still carrying a debate.

This is how I see it - for years there has been a couple of active Spurs posters who (not naming names but we know who I mean) over time has become the whipping boy of the entire forum. Now other Spurs fans have cropped up they come in with most Utd fans on this forum already having an opinion of 'Spurs fans' based on one or two guys so we automatically start here with this hanging over ourselves and unfortunately at times things are said and comments are made - normally completely non-related to whatever topic we post on - that are quite condesending and/or aggressive towards us as Spurs fans and our club in general. So in this context we find ourselves some of us (I admit to being guilty of this also at times) become frustrated and respond in the same way which then just feeds into the already (years in the making) narrative of Spurs fans being a certain way. Hope that makes sense, but it is honestly what I think has happened. How do we get around this? No idea sadly, I've tried reasoning with folk and trying to point out that not all fans are the same but many posters ignore it and are happy to continue regardless.

 

[Tarrou]

@balaks you're a very good poster and I by no means meant yourself or all the Spurs fans.. but you do seem to have more than your fair share of knobheads, and maybe you're right in that it's a bit of a perceptional thing caused by one or two.

 

[Invictus]

I don't think we're interested in him, to be honest. He signed a new contract at the start of the season:

Contract until 30.06.2021

http://www.transfermarkt.com/eric-dier/profil/spieler/175722

So Levy will justifiably demand a fee in excess of £40 million - which isn't commensurate to his value as a potential United player, and José will be well aware of that. Could be wrong, but IMO, Dier is not good enough to lock down a starting XI position for the long term at an elite club (hopefully, we'll revisit that sporting standard soon), so you'll have an expensive, high earning squad player who's maybe decent in 2-3 roles, but not excellent in one particular position as a specialist.

£40-50 million ideally buys you a world class player in that position - like maybe Casemiro who's arguably the best stopper type defensive midfielder around. And someone like Fabinho will likely go for a similar fee, too - he's better than Dier in most technical, temperamental and tactical aspects as a defensive or holding midfielder - though a bit less aggressive (which isn't exactly a bad thing), and can also play as a right fullback to provide the element of versatility. We should buy versatile squad players like Dier for a low fee and develop them in our system, instead of spending big money when they're a bit more established.

 

[balaks]

I don't think we're interested in him, to be honest. He signed a new contract at the start of the season:

http://www.transfermarkt.com/eric-dier/profil/spieler/175722

So Levy will justifiably demand a fee in excess of £40 million - which isn't commensurate to his value as a potential United player, and José will be well aware of that. Could be wrong, but IMO, Dier is not good enough to lock down a starting XI position for the long term at an elite club (hopefully, we'll revisit that sporting standard soon), so you'll have an expensive, high earning squad player who's maybe decent in 2-3 roles, but not excellent in one particular position as a specialist.

£40-50 million ideally buys you a world class player in that position - like maybe Casemiro who's arguably the best stopper type defensive midfielder around. And someone like Fabinho will likely go for a similar fee, too - he's better than Dier in most technical, temperamental and tactical aspects as a defensive or holding midfielder - though a bit less aggressive (which isn't exactly a bad thing), and can also play as a right fullback to provide the element of versatility. We should buy versatile squad players like Dier for a low fee and develop them in our system, instead of spending big money when they're a bit more established.

To be fair £40-50 million doesnt buy you a world class player nowadays - it buys you a good squad/first team player and that is what I think Dier is. I don't think there is any truth in the rumours about him going to Utd though.

 

[Kostur]

It's an interesting season where the competition between Spurs fans and Pep's cultists to do their utmost to prove that they're the most tiresome and annoying twats on the board, apart from balaks that is, is huge.

 

[Yagami]

if we are after a DM, why not go for Romeu from Southampton?
Big and strong and technically good.

Romeu's my first choice but Dier would be a fine option even though he's not the most likable or the finished product. I think he's a good player. Dealing with Levy, though...

 

[Varun]

This is how I see it - for years there has been a couple of active Spurs posters who (not naming names but we know who I mean) over time has become the whipping boy of the entire forum. Now other Spurs fans have cropped up they come in with most Utd fans on this forum already having an opinion of 'Spurs fans' based on one or two guys so we automatically start here with this hanging over ourselves and unfortunately at times things are said and comments are made - normally completely non-related to whatever topic we post on - that are quite condesending and/or aggressive towards us as Spurs fans and our club in general. So in this context we find ourselves some of us (I admit to being guilty of this also at times) become frustrated and respond in the same way which then just feeds into the already (years in the making) narrative of Spurs fans being a certain way. Hope that makes sense, but it is honestly what I think has happened. How do we get around this? No idea sadly, I've tried reasoning with folk and trying to point out that not all fans are the same but many posters ignore it and are happy to continue regardless.

There's no outcunting Glaston and the Henry dude but a lot of the Spurs fans post with the arrogance unbecoming of a side that's won feck all tbf. I do think it has a lot to do with the dream of finally doing better than Utd but finishing above us no longer gets you a trophy so you'd think some of your fans would wait for you to atleast win something before you go off on one.

I do see your point btw, personally I think you're one of the better Spurs posters we have here but tolerance level in general do tend to be low when every thread related to Spurs or one of their players becomes an absolute nightmare to participate in.

 

[Invictus]

To be fair £40-50 million doesnt buy you a world class player nowadays - it buys you a good squad/first team player and that is what I think Dier is. I don't think there is any truth in the rumours about him going to Utd though.

I think that kind of money can fetch you a lot of quality provided you target the right profile of player. Yes, it's unrealistic to get the best of the best ready-made world class players in certain positions for that figure (especially positions that are associated with a premium fee), but you can always be more judicious in terms of scouting and sign someone who has the requisite amount of talent to become that player, or is on the cusp of nigh world class performance. eg. Juventus signed Dybala for ~€35 million, and you could argue that he's a Top 3 trequesrista in football right now with the potential to become a Ballon D'Or Top 5 level attacker. Dortmund bought Weigl for €3 million and he quickly became one of the best holding midfielders around - and a fundamental player for their system. They also bought Dembélé for €12 million - and although he's a bit inconsistent, you can see that he will become a world class player very soon.

I'd rather we signed that bracket of player who might not be world class right now, but could be very soon based on potential (which is a quality Dier doesn't evidence). Or maybe monitor clause/contract situations, and snap up players on a bargain fee. Every team needs squad players who'll happily contribute when the manager asks him to, but spending £40-50 million on someone who's comparable to an Emre Can just doesn't sit right with me - because the market is being inflated to crazy levels (particularly in the Premier League), and you end up wasting money. Which is why I'd rather we bought part-time versatile squad players from other leagues (the Bundesliga in a largely untapped resource for United) because you won't have to pay the extra premium associated with Premier League based players - especially ones from Tottenham because of Levy.

 

[balaks]

I think that kind of money can fetch you a lot of quality provided you target the right profile of player. Yes, it's unrealistic to get the best of the best ready-made world class players in certain positions for that figure (especially positions that are associated with a premium fee), but you can always be more judicious in terms of scouting and sign someone who has the requisite amount of talent to become that player, or is on the cusp of nigh world class performance. eg. Juventus signed Dybala for ~€35 million, and you could argue that he's a Top 3 trequesrista in football right now with the potential to become a Ballon D'Or Top 5 level attacker. Dortmund bought Weigl for €3 million and he quickly became one of the best holding midfielders around - and a fundamental player for their system. They also bought Dembélé for €12 million - and although he's a bit inconsistent, you can see that he will become a world class player very soon.

I'd rather we signed that bracket of player who might not be world class right now, but could be very soon based on potential (which is a quality Dier doesn't evidence). Or maybe monitor clause/contract situations, and snap up players on a bargain fee. Every team needs squad players who'll happily contribute when the manager asks him to, but spending £40-50 million on someone who's comparable to an Emre Can just doesn't sit right with me - because the market is being inflated to crazy levels (particularly in the Premier League), and you end up wasting money. Which is why I'd rather we bought part-time versatile squad players from other leagues (the Bundesliga in a largely untapped resource for United) because you won't have to pay the extra premium associated with Premier League based players - especially ones from Tottenham because of Levy.

Well that's different of course - £40 million would get you one or two exciting young players who may or may not turn into world beaters. That is more the strategy my own club Spurs has been going with (mostly) with pretty good success so far but is it Man Utd? I cant see it, I know you spent big on the likes of Martial, etc. but I think Jose is the type of manager who will buy proven top players rather than young lads with potential, at least that is how he has been at other clubs generally and you dont get that for £40 million.

 

[hellohello]

What on earth are you on about? Spurs have signed more dross than they have quality. For your Alli there's a 30m Sissoko, a 17m Janssen, a 10m N'Koudou, a 12m N'Jie and an 11m Ben Davies.

That's 80 million quids worth of shite that makes Paul Pogba look like an absolute steal.

You've had a scattergun approach to transfers for years. You blew the Bale money on all sorts which you quickly sold back on. In amongst such a policy you'll get the odd gem but don't make it sound like you're masters of transfer dealings as you're really not.

Ironically if Tottenham actually spent some of the above money on one mega star you might actually win a trophy and not become a European embarrassment. Just a thought.

They should be queuing up with your London attractions and superb home fans..

We don't have the profile or wage structure to attract the highest rated stars available. If we could buy Bale for what we sold him for I'm certain we would, it's not an issue of not wanting to buy the very best, but rather being able to.

No. But tacking like this won't help.

Not his fault he wasn't sent off.

I don't understand the logic why some posters want to label him as being thick or a thug or not liking his face. Really is quite low when it comes to judging a player, especially when it's not really backed by evidence. He is a good young English player who in my opinion was one of the few good English players at the Euros. Sure, you can argue that you don't think his qualities are worth x million, or that you would rather see your club approach a different type for whatever reason. My opinion on the matter remain the same, I don't think any English club will benefit from trying to buy an established player on a long contract from Levy, so I don't see it happening unless Mourinho is willing to play silly money.

 

[Invictus]

Well that's different of course - £40 million would get you one or two exciting young players who may or may not turn into world beaters. That is more the strategy my own club Spurs has been going with (mostly) with pretty good success so far but is it Man Utd? I cant see it, I know you spent big on the likes of Martial, etc. but I think Jose is the type of manager who will buy proven top players rather than young lads with potential, at least that is how he has been at other clubs generally and you dont get that for £40 million.

Yep, our spending in recent years (relative to the quality we've been able to extract) is a pet peeve of mine because our approach is quite inelegant, and we've wasted a lot of money - without significantly improving the Xi and the squad. eg. when you spend close to £200 million (on top of big wages) to strengthen the midfield area, and then have only Pogba and Herrera to show for in terms of medium to long term pieces who are good fits for the team and the proposed tactical setup - there's no way around the fact that you've been inefficient with your recruitment. But I do think José is someone who can rectify that and bring a bit of stability to our transfer dealings - he sometimes gets a bad rep, but by and large, he's quite astute in the market (either buys players who can make an impact first XI at decent fee relative to their performance level, or good potentials where there's a variance of fee paid - but not many average grade squad level players for a big fee - which is what Dier would represent).

The ideal would be how Juventus operate - build a fundamentally solid spine - and then improvise with a sprinkling of top quality to push the squad, a few smart acquisitions (especially via free agency), and plenty of young players from smaller clubs that are snatched before their value explodes. But we need more consistent team building to lay the foundation, and more stability in terms of decision-making to do that (which is something we haven't had because Ed was relatively green as a football administrator and the two managers preceding Mourinho were quite indecisive or haphazard in the market), whereas you guys are benefiting from consistent behind-the-scenes decision-making - apart from the Kane-Alli duo that blossomed out of nowhere. Atleast with José, we now have someone with a lucid vision for the team, and the profile of player he wants - apart from experience and a bit of clout in the market.

 

[TheReligion]

We don't have the profile or wage structure to attract the highest rated stars available. If we could buy Bale for what we sold him for I'm certain we would, it's not an issue of not wanting to buy the very best, but rather being able to.

Exactly. And this is my point. Earlier Spurs posters seem to think your club has a better profile from United due to our issues post SAF.

Spurs are doing very well. United are still a bigger club and more attractive proposition in world football though.

 

[DWelbz19]

Sssh ...

As Krylov said: "One could make this fable clearer still, but let us not disturb the geese."

3 less yellow cards than the geese. Paragons of tranquility.

 

[balaks]

Exactly. And this is my point. Earlier Spurs posters seem to think your club has a better profile from United due to our issues post SAF.

Spurs are doing very well. United are still a bigger club and more attractive proposition in world football though.

Oh god yeah 100% correct - nobody in their right mind would suggest otherwise and to be fair I dont think anybody was (apart from one balloon)

 

[TheReligion]

Oh god yeah 100% correct - nobody in their right mind would suggest otherwise and to be fair I dont think anybody was (apart from one balloon)

That's not to take anything away from how you guys are doing. I genuinely enjoy watching you play.

It's just frustrating that certain oppo posters come on the forum trying to belittle United. I agree with you though I sometimes bite and shouldn't tar you with the same brush. I'm glad the mods have moved him on.

Apologies.

 

[hellohello]

Exactly. And this is my point. Earlier Spurs posters seem to think your club has a better profile from United due to our issues post SAF.

Spurs are doing very well. United are still a bigger club and more attractive proposition in world football though.

Of course,

Similar to you it irks me when I see so many belittle what I see as genuine improvements from Spurs, often against significantly wealthier teams, but I guess that's to be expected on a opposition forum so I try to not take too much notice. Supporting a different team, people will always react differently when you talk about their team, if I criticize United it would be seen differently than when a do the same, so it's not always easy having a balanced dialogue.

Just to ask (on subject), why do you think most people are so against signing Dier? Is it the price, ability or perceived attitude?

 

[TheReligion]

Of course,

Similar to you it irks me when I see so many belittle what I see as genuine improvements from Spurs, often against significantly wealthier teams, but I guess that's to be expected on a opposition forum so I try to not take too much notice. Supporting a different team, people will always react differently when you talk about their team, if I criticize United it would be seen differently than when a do the same, so it's not always easy having a balanced dialogue.

Just to ask (on subject), why do you think most people are so against signing Dier? Is it the price, ability or perceived attitude?

Personally I think Dier is a good, but not great, player.

Over the past few seasons we have been bitten by signings that have been in this bracket so I think some would be against it given the price.

I don't think he'd be a bad addition to our squad but the price mentioned is too much for what he'd bring in my opinion.

 

[SachinJ22]

Why do so many Spurs fans make such tits of themselves on this forum? If you're posting on a rivals board you gotta show a bit of respect, and all the other teams supporters seem to be able to manage that while still carrying a debate.

Idk why some of them are acting thee way they are, if they want to bash United they can do it on their own forum. This is redcafe not whitecafe. (I know this joke is lame )

 

[3KDré]

The only player I want us to even try to get from Spurs is Alderweireld.

 

[hellohello]

Personally I think Dier is a good, but not great, player.

Over the past few seasons we have been bitten by signings that have been in this bracket so I think some would be against it given the price.

I don't think he'd be a bad addition to our squad but the price mentioned is too much for what he'd bring in my opinion.

Fair enough, to be honest I was a little surprised he was linked. Good player for us with potential to improve further, but I think you can spend the money better.

The only player I want us to even try to get from Spurs is Alderweireld.

Stay away pliz!

 

[Damien]

Poch on Dier: http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...ttino-made-him-the-player-he-is-a7659121.html