Yeah but we can try 100 players using that as a standard, maybe we can be proven wrong, try a new one until ee have the correct one.
Eric Dier | Poch: “He is an important player for us and the idea is not to sell him."
- Thread starter davidmichael
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- United have won 9 trophies in 9 years, Spurs 1.
- United have won 2 trophies in the last 2 years, Spurs 0.
- United is a global brand, one of the biggest, infact, top 3, Spurs, not so much.
- United have much more financial power to add to the squad, Spurs, not as much for sure.
- United attract the likes of Pogba, Mkhi, Zlatan, Mata, do Spurs?
- United are favourites for the EL, you got knocked out by Genk/t (can not remember which).
Current form or position, if you aren't first or even near it is irrelevant, United have the tools to go on to domination like we did 7-10 years ago, Spurs don't seem to have those same tools. I just don't see why players would decide to join you guys over us even with the current positions, in all honesty though, I doubt you can afford or are willing to pay the wages of the caliber of players we're after. Just think about it, Griezmann to Spurs? Pogba to spurs? Do Spurs have anyone on a 6 figure per week contract at the minute? All I'm saying is, you aren't winning the league, so if we both finish inside the top 4, United have achieved more this season, if we don't and win the EL, United have achieved more, ultimately if we get UCL football next year, we are at the same stage as you next season, but with more silverware this season. Who would you go to? The team that's in UCL and hasn't won a trophy in 9 years or a team that's in the UCL but has won a trophy, 2 years running. Open your mind for just a second, you're dealing with United, we aren't like the scouse or Arsenal, we win, you guys don't, from a financial and winning standpoint, United seems like the no brainer for me, we're proven winners.
Ha ha love it great comeback.
He's the kind of player you wouldn't bat an eyelid if he one day he turned up and played for say Lincoln City. Don't want.
I think you're in for a very heavy landing, utd's days of dominating English football have gone and they are unlikely to be coming back, if anything things are going to get harder for them not easier.
More clubs have money now, City have had theirs for long enough to now be established alongside Chelsea as a long term top team. Arsenal still have the resources and the pulling power of being in London and once Wenger has gone there is every chance that they will reemerge much stronger. The rest of the league also have money and any club any day could get taken other by a corporation, a fund or an individual and become instantly richer than Utd. I've lost count how many times Spurs have been linked with a Qatari govt fund takeover, I don't want it because football to me isn't about money and there are also moral issues, but if it happened we would financially blow you out of the water, and in this day and age if it's not us then sooner or later it will be somebody else.
You aren't going to dominate anymore, you've already been reduced to a club who now annually battle for a top 4 finish and who could win a cup. The other top clubs in the PL currently have better players, they aren't casting an envious eye anymore at Utd's playing staff.
You should consider closely what happened to Liverpool and not be so aloof as football has a habit of long term kicking you in the teeth. I know you chose to support Utd because they were perennial winners, but you will now have to get used to the fact that they won't reach those heights above everybody else again, you are now just a club that competes on a level financial footing with City and Chelsea and not as well run on the footballing side as others. Where Utd were once a football club, like many other clubs they have morphed into a marketing company who's primary goal is to build a brand and make money, success whilst it can go hand in hand with that can also fall victim to that, see the Pogba purchase. He was never going to be a great PL player, his brain is much too slow for that and he was never going to physically bully this league, he was bought for marketing reasons and not football ones.
Spurs aren't the be all and end all either, but we are an interesting project, we are in London and that is huge and we are able to compete with you. I understand that irks but you better get used to it for a while at least because we are a club who is inching forward in the right direction. Your marketing might be inching forward but the footballing side of your club has been caught and in some cases overtaken by at least 5 other clubs.
You're going to have to learn some humility my friend as there are as many cloudy as sunny days ahead for Utd which upto only recent history wasn't the case.
Spurs fans in this thread don't seem that reluctant to let him go. I think that sort of confirms my opinion: he will probably never get much better than he is now, which closer to mediocre than exceptional.
Most of the players are average to good, Poch is getting best out of the players. Once he leaves most of them will be back to their normal level which is average.
This is bollocks, City had a financial take over, still not richer than United. Madrid are backed by the Spanish government and not as rich as United. The statement that you'd "blow United out of the water" is ridiculous, as United is the richest club in world football. As you said, they're making the right decisions marketing wise which would only result in further exposure and more money.
Your opinions on Pogba are laughable, claiming he isn't good enough to dominate this league when he's been influential for a Juventus team that has dominated the Serie- A constantly, whilst also coming up against some of the best midfielders in world football in the CL, a tournament Spurs can't even seem to make out of the group stages, for all your "dominance" over United in the EPL.
His decision making requires attention sure, but claiming he doesn't have the ability to dominate this league just proves you haven't watched him properly or you're clutching at straws. He's one of the best talents of his generation, judging him on his first season return to a new league, playing a new team that is struggling, whilst expected to be the catalyst at the age of 24 doesn't change that fact.
Also how can you be sure that United can't dominate again? You go on to claim all clubs have money now. That's true, but you don't take into consideration everything United has that other clubs don't. Fabinho, Kessie, Griezmann, just to name a few are all players who have come out and spoken about the pull united has, even taking into consideration their current predictament.
The same way you argue United won't ever dominate due to money, could be said for all clubs in the Premier League.
I could claim Spurs will never win shite cause given the past few years it's evident your manager and squad are full of bottlejobs, managing to come third in a two horse race last season, getting knocked out in groups of CL then knocked out in EL by a team most people didn't have any knowledge of. For all intents and purposes, Spurs could be another Arsenal.
Also it's funny you use Uniteds shortcomings this past season as proof they will never dominate but then go on to state Chelsea are a footballing model superior to United's. Were you claiming as much when they were 10th last season? If anything they just go on to show what some new personnel and motivation can do for a team, who's to say United couldn't do the same.
I actually like Spurs, out of all our rivals they're the team I hate the least. Their manager is respectable, they play a good brand of football and give youth a chance, but to claim United will never dominate again is being naive.
I can't argue Spurs will never win anything because they're bottle jobs because things change in an instant in football, I don't see how United given their money, prestige etc. are an exemption to this? Any of the top 6 teams could go onto dominate. Our football under Jose has improved dramatically and we have been the far superior team in about 90% of our games this season and had it not been for absolutely dreadful finishing and complacency we'd be amongst the top. Our highest goal-scorer has missed the most chances of any of the strikers in the EPL. Upgrading positions and turning those draws into wins is hardly an unbelievable scenario.
United has been through far worse than these past few years and recovered.
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Not when Spurs play a back 4. Which is what they do more often than not. He is one of the few first team regulars they have who they could possibly consider selling.
Only because the real Spurs first 11 has had injuries. There is no way he starts in Spurs current strongest XI when all are fit
Is that why you took United to the cleaners during your last encounter with them? Oh wait.....
You realise we now mostly play 3 at the back? Dier has been a big part of why we changed those tactics due to his ability on the ball from defence.
Since 2013. The allegedly better footballing Spurs, with 'clearly better" English proven players and a manager, with "superior' team cohesion has won zero trophies, and have made the top 4 twice.
In that period with 'worse players' the disaster reign of Moyes plus the controversial division of LVG, and finally Mourinho, United have played a champions league quarter final, finished in the top 4, won two trophies, are in the hunt for a possible third and even signed the world's most expensive player all whilst being so 'inferior" to Spurs....
But Spurs >>>> United....
In that period with 'worse players' the disaster reign of Moyes plus the controversial division of LVG, and finally Mourinho, United have played a champions league quarter final, finished in the top 4, won two trophies, are in the hunt for a possible third and even signed the world's most expensive player all whilst being so 'inferior" to Spurs....
But Spurs >>>> United....
What has this whine got to do with this thread?
Casemiro skillfull? Really? Technically he is inferior to Dier. What he has is the game reading and postional sense that make him truly stand out. Not his technical skills.
Whine? You must be high to confuse debunking with a whine.
Ask your fellow Spurs fans why they believe that laughable stuff the post mentioned
Tbf they did look dire at the beginning of the season, I was surprised Conte didn't implement 3 at the back from the start given his history.
Think people jumped the gun with those comments though. I'd give managers two seasons (assuming they don't do complete crap) before they should properly be judged imo, especially special cases like some Premier league teams.
That's why it's very early to praise or dismiss any footballing model. Just at the start of the season he was calling Conte fraud, not they are the model for everyone to follow.
Why have you won nothing then but United have in the period of dominance?
The great Spurs side did finish 3rd last year right? Then meekly crash out of two European competitions this season? The side that had a horrendous transfer window since no top player opted to move to them?
Well done Spurs, may I wish you every continued success.
Well done Spurs, may I wish you every continued success.
I honestly think you have no idea how big a proposition moving to Manchester United is.
It's not about the past couple of years post Sir Alex Ferguson it's about the years of history and success at the club and what it stands for.
For all the good things you say about Spurs you've had no success. Being dumped out of two European Cup competitions unceremoniously will do you absolutely no favours around Europe. In addition for all the London pull and excitement under Poch you've still brought in no silverwear whilst United have struggled but won an FA Cup and League cup in back to back seasons.
You can mock all you like but our honours list has grown in a period of difficulty whilst you've finishing a couple of places higher in the league. Big deal.
Spurs have done very well to compete but unless you're setting your sights on being like Arsenal 'top 4 and I'm happy' then you've got alot of work to do before you start claiming to have the run on the mega clubs like United.
Imagine how badly other clubs must be doing to have finished below such a disastrous club.
You finished 3rd, we finished 5th and won FA cup. You qualified for CL and we qualified for Europa.
Next season, you dropped from CL to Europa and Knocked out of the cup, ManUtd are still in Europa and qualified for QFs.
Everything below the champions is much of a muchness though, as long as they're in top 4 then it doesn't really matter.
As shown by Spurs utter indifference to their final league position after the Chelsea game. We were goal difference away from having a better season than your lot, 15 mins away even during the West Ham game.
Its a running theme that I don't understand, this down playing of United and our appeal v a side who finished 3rd last season.
First we haven't the pull anymore while lambasting us for making big money signings which is a major contradiction. If anything we've made our highest ever profile signings in the post Sir Alex era, all without CL football.
All we do is spend money. Take out Pogba which is an outlier, we've signed Ibra / Bailly/ Mkhi for 10m more than the combined fee for Jansson and Sissoko.
How can our appeal have fallen when we are the club that sign the big name players? All of this is nonsense and that's just in the last few pages in this thread.
Even this season we're a game in hand away from being 4 points behind your lot and we have yet to play.
Chelsea fans aren't even making this argument.
I've done nothing in this thread other than try and discuss Dier - if you keep on whining away about my own club then I will respond eventually - every time you put down my club that just highlights how poorly your own club has been doing over the past few years to not be able to overtake us in the league, especially with the huge advantage your club has over my own in terms of wealth, power, influence and the ability to attract higher profile players. Maybe get your own house in order before criticising other clubs.
I guess I feel the same about Dier as I did when we brought Carrick, an awful lot of money for meh. When we brought Carrick I thought they had got the sale price for RvN and the purchase price of Carrick the wrong way round. I was wrong about Carrick, although it took a few seasons to realise, I expect I would be wrong about Dier too.
€45M I've seen, I guess that's the going rate these days.
€45M I've seen, I guess that's the going rate these days.
45 Million? He isn't even home grown player. Too much money for a not so good player.
That's €, That's around £39m.
Doesn't he counts as English? He plays for England after all, the fact that he spent his formative years not playing in England I count as a big bonus.
Think you're doing a disservice to Spurs there. They've got a good team.
It'd be like me saying that once Mourinho jumps ship, the United squad will revert to the LVG days.
Yeah 39 Million pounds is too much for a player like Dier imo. Btw yes he is English but not home grown player. He was in Sporting Lisbon academy.
There aren't many whose performances improved drastically once Jose took over, so not the same comparison.
A lot of it is down to the fact it's a young and developing squad so you would expect them to improve steadily over the course of several seasons and they have done. No doubt Poch is doing a great job but many of our players showed lots of promise and improvement before Poch arrived and have just continued to develop (albeit the manager is helping them to do this and has also changed tactics to make the best of what we have).
That statement doesn't really reflect well on our manager.
Walker and Rose's performance have improved drastically and they weren't young player learning the game. Even Vertonghen has improved. Lamela was also underwhelming. So lots of credit to Poch and he did the same at Southampton too. He has this great ability to bring the best out of the players.
It shouldn't. Jose has good and bad points.
We'll continue winning trophies while your team continues developing players for other teams.
I guess I kind of agree, and Mourinho hasn't had the same time yet, but like another poster mentioned, a lot of that is down to age. Walker and Rose were 23/24 when Poch took over, so it was natural that they'd start becoming more consistent, both fit the tactics well, but I don't think that can be used as a slight against them.
I can't think of many players who have improved massively from where you'd expect them to be at. Lamela might have been underwhelming originally at Spurs but he was a fairly highly coveted player at Roma, Eriksen was highly coveted, Alderweireld has always looked good, Lloris has always been excellent, Dembele is an excellent midfielder and I think you can't put most of these players down to Poch. I just think he knows his players and their strengths.
Walker and Rose yes no doubt have come on really well under Poch.
Walker, Rose have improved a lot and both were above average before Poch. Even Dembele even though he was skillful player never had a season like he had last season. He became lot more effective player and IIRC his career wasn't going anywhere before Poch and it looked like he made a wrong choice moving to Spurs.
Lamela was underwhelming and he improved under Poch, IIRC not even in Poch's first season but in second season.
Poch has improved the players on individual level and also as a team where every players works harder than most and covers other's weaknesses.