I wouldn't mind him for a reasonable price, like €65-75M. West Ham have to sell him this summer, don't they? I imagine they can trigger a contract extension until 2025, but I somehow doubt he'd be happy about it. Surely they realize the situation?
Enzo Fernández | signs for Chelsea
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I wouldn't mind him for a reasonable price, like €65-75M. West Ham have to sell him this summer, don't they? I imagine they can trigger a contract extension until 2025, but I somehow doubt he'd be happy about it. Surely they realize the situation?
He's been a bit of an 8 for West Ham this season if I'm not mistaken
That might be, but he‘s not as good as others in that position imo. He‘s much better as a 6
I think Rice will also join Chelsea and it doesn't really make sense for us (United) to sign him now that we have Casemiro. United need a connector next to Casemiro who is comfortable operating as the deepest lying midfielder in the deeper build up phase, as well as being comfortable advancing play through the thirds as the #8. And hopefully this prospective player will have the ability to not only break lines via his passing but also break lines via his ability to carry the ball.
Chelsea is like me playing fm. Sitting on a huge kitty and bidding for every young player who has potential and hope they accept it.
We might already have this player.
McTom
Imagine spending near 300m for a CM partnership
Hannibal, Mainoo, Zidane, Hansen-Aarøen, Gore. Who's your money on?
They massively overpay for everyone.
It’s an interesting tactic and quite risky. If it brings success it will pay off, if it doesn’t then they will find themselves stuck with a number of depreciating assets tied to long lucrative deals.
They won’t be able to continue this level of spending and comply with FFP so if things don’t work out then will be difficult to correct.
We have a couple of youngsters who fit the profile. But I think it would be best if we bring in someone more established to take up the role in question. The role of the connector in ten Hag's build up play is very important and that player needs to display a very high level of discipline and technical quality.
It doesn't look like de Jong is going to join us. But there's a couple of players who I think look interesting for the role in question. And those players are Bennacer ((Milan) and 21 year old Feyenoord midfielder Orkun Kokcu who is very similar in style to Enzo Fernandez.
Agree - don't know how they comply with FFp even now. It won't bring success immediately but yes, in the long run it may click. But then competition is so tight that you are in no position to even give time to these kids.
Oh, come on mate, he is the exact same player. His minutes in the CL and WC haven't transformed him, they have "just" removed unknowns. Benfica haven't developed him to a required level, they just showcased him.
And we paid for Amad more than the combined fees of Alvarez, Fernandez and Caicedo.
We are pretty terrible. I'm not one to pretend to know what Arnold, Murtough or Fletcher do or don't do, but it's clear our scouting has been shocking.
YesHannibal, Mainoo, Zidane, Hansen-Aarøen, Gore. Who's your money on?
Either you don't understand the point I'm making or you're making a different point entirely. I'm not saying the Benfica move has been bad for his development, I'm saying the clubs who are interested now should've made the move in the summer if they're prepared to pay an extra €100m to make the move now. Two separate things.
If they're paying for the 'buzz' that's come since, that's not part of some elaborate development plan, that's just a stupidity tax.
they have no debt now and always sold players well to balance the sheets. far better ran than we have been for a long time.
Diallo cost 20m euros without add ons and if he reaches those add ons then he becomes a bargain?
Their owner was a Russian murderer who had to he thrown out of the country so the club was given to an American who had over 1b in debt written off and had laws in place for the takeover that other clubs don’t have because the government mollycoddled them.
How is that well run? They spent nearly 300m last summer and are around 9th! They sacked their manager a few games in after such a huge spend and hired a manager who is a huge risk at this level.
That’s absurd
Game time is development? Or are you saying players go out on loan at lower clubs, do so because they have better development plans?
You’re over complicating the thing. But to make it simple no one went for him because they didn’t feel £24m was worth the ‘risk’ for a key first teamer in their squad.
Now Chelsea see him as a key first teamer they are willing to pay for him. However as you can see no other club in Europe can afford that price right now which is why Chelsea are taking advantage. Which is what I mentioned already. I don’t think he cost this much in the summer and I think the market for him would be a lot greater.
We're going for him now because we have too.
In the summer we'll likely have Real, City and quite probably sugar daddy/state owned United and Liverpool to compete with which would most likely render our chances as next to none.
As above game time is part of development. It’s how most player over 18 improve.
Nothing is wrong with our scouting per say. How we negotiate deals and identify players for our managers style needs plenty of work which I hope is improving.
We get linked to and are interested in all the top talent over the years. We have poor execution though.
FFP doesn't exist for big teams does it!?
of course.
we made a loss last year and we will make another loss this year. Anybody who thinks we have 120m available in january or this summer are living in cloud cookoo land.
The only way we spend this summer is if the take over happens, the debt is cleared and they give us a huge cash sponsorship (renaming old trafford etc)
Just like Chelsea then.
Chelsea fans summed up in a single post. That's why rivals regard the entire club hollow, not a case of hatred or tribalism. Just simply small time, don't deserve any recognition or respect of the oil years success or post.
Game time is development? Or are you saying players go out on loan at lower clubs, do so because they have better development plans?
You’re over complicating the thing. But to make it simple no one went for him because they didn’t feel £24m was worth the ‘risk’ for a key first teamer in their squad.
Now Chelsea see him as a key first teamer they are willing to pay for him. However as you can see no other club in Europe can afford that price right now which is why Chelsea are taking advantage. Which is what I mentioned already. I don’t think he cost this much in the summer and I think the market for him would be a lot greater.
As @antohan says, the games he's got at Benfica haven't defined him as a player in any sense, as I've repeatedly said. Loans are a useful tool for players who aren't quite ready but this is a player who clearly was.
I mean the millions of dodgy Russian money might have helped?
No debt is the key. There was also an extension of the “leeway” on FFP counted revenues allowed to all teams due to Covid, AND this is the final year of the 3 year rolling average format, so starting essentially from scratch we can go right to the ceiling and not have to worry about balancing it next year. I thought we could go near 580m give or take and still be fine.
People already knew we would offer “whatever it took” for Bellingham. Since Bellingham is definitively off the table for us, and Brightons staff was the PL staff that bid against Benfica for Enzo originally … It shouldn’t surprise people that we would make this move.
I expect us to still go for Rice in the Summer. The rotating 3 man midfield we played against Bournemouth is Potters ideas starting to take hold. One of the deeper midfielders slides forward and plays more of an 8 (Enzo), the other slides back to shield the back line (Rice).
I’ll get excited when the plans all fully come together. This is a real test for Vivell and the others in the new structure; a LOT of moving pieces to bring together: Badioshile, Fofana and Santos, a right back, possibly a striker, and two more youth prospects (including going back in for Zakharyan)… in addition to Enzo
People already knew we would offer “whatever it took” for Bellingham. Since Bellingham is definitively off the table for us, and Brightons staff was the PL staff that bid against Benfica for Enzo originally … It shouldn’t surprise people that we would make this move.
I expect us to still go for Rice in the Summer. The rotating 3 man midfield we played against Bournemouth is Potters ideas starting to take hold. One of the deeper midfielders slides forward and plays more of an 8 (Enzo), the other slides back to shield the back line (Rice).
I’ll get excited when the plans all fully come together. This is a real test for Vivell and the others in the new structure; a LOT of moving pieces to bring together: Badioshile, Fofana and Santos, a right back, possibly a striker, and two more youth prospects (including going back in for Zakharyan)… in addition to Enzo
No idea either although I’m sure it was mentioned that they need to spend heavily now and very much taper it off in order to comply and maximise FFP.
Essentially they won’t do much spending after this initial splurge.
Didn't know that, sounds better, although it really depends on the add-ons. Fernández was 10M plus 8M in add-ons, half of those already triggered in his first few months at the club.
2M after participating in 10 games. Tricky stuff that, doesn't a games / minutes played add-on work against giving a kid minutes whenever possible? How many get stuck on 9?
We've seen Simeone managing Griezmann's minutes to save on add-ons, so it's not as cheap and unlikely as it sounds.
That’s speculative nonsense. Sorry.
"not a case of hatred or tribalism".
I had a good laugh at that, sure pal sure.
"Just simply small time, don't deserve any recognition or respect of the oil years success or post."
Damn, if only your irrelevant opinion mattered . Care to know what "rivals" think about United? .
it simply isn’t.
You clearly haven’t seen the latest thread pointing it out in clear daylight. Why do you think now of all times the Glazers have decided to sell? it’s obviously been predicted and they’re getting out before the heat becomes too much.
with our current debt and outstanding payments we will fail FFP if we spend again.
we will now be limited to free transfers, very cheap deals. We will probably sell more than we buy.
Why do you think ETH keeps boldly stating must meet financial terms when talking about a transfer?
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/a-l...r-play-rules-on-man-utd.474688/#post-29914680
I was specifically talking about renaming Old Trafford.
Speculative nonsense with zero substance.
Correct. This year was a very particular advantage. They have no intention to be spending 400m + over two windows next year, two years from now, etc. That’s why it’s particularly astute to use this leeway period to stock up on future talents and clear bad contracts as well.
There are, of course, ways to show increased revenue streams in the future if needed though. For instance, Clearlake owns a cable steaming channel for Dodger and Laker games and content. They could attach Chelsea to that and “share” revenue.
ok that’s fair - but as pointed out in the thread, even if we get taken over by an arab state, we would need a big sponsorship to immediately offset the balance of spending.
we would need 2 years or so of being frugal to allow us to spend properly again without a big/fake sponsor.
Potentially they’ll just use the man city fake sponsor route instead, but everything is getting clamped down.
Even if we did, then no matter what there is no way United are going to get properly punished with anything meaningful for voilating FFP.
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