English cricket thread

[TheGame]

There needs to be a serious rethink of the England team. Just lumping fast bowlers in without any variation just isn’t working.

 

[Utd heap]

There needs to be a serious rethink of the England team. Just lumping fast bowlers in without any variation just isn’t working.

I know I'm beating the same drum a little in this thread but I really would treat this as a tournament warm up series. And a very good one at that.

Will judge the selection and mix at the Champions Trophy.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Apparently Bethell is out for the CT. For me it's kind of obvious that England should replace him with Dawson in the squad but it won't happen. They will probably pick Rehan who will never play. This team is going nowhere. They have such poor tactics and Baz really doesn't add much value tactically. I feel that with the test team Stokes probably can cover that up but with the white ball team it's very difficult.

 

[Xaviesta]

I'm not intending to be a smart arse Australian here but will England win a game in this year's Champions Trophy?

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

I'm not intending to be a smart arse Australian here but will England win a game in this year's Champions Trophy?

The champions trophy is a strange tournament, the recent Australia England ODI series finished 3-2 to Australia so it's difficult to judge really where these teams stand. Australia also have no Cummins & Hazlewood so could easily go out in the group stage.

 

[zing]

Sometimes I play talk sport videos on youtube and it's like English pundits genuinely want England to fail.

 

[Ish]

The champions trophy is a strange tournament, the recent Australia England ODI series finished 3-2 to Australia so it's difficult to judge really where these teams stand. Australia also have no Cummins & Hazlewood so could easily go out in the group stage.

Injured? I didn't see them play against Sri Lanka now recently, but thought it was a combination of rest/rotation.

 

[Xaviesta]

Injured? I didn't see them play against Sri Lanka now recently, but thought it was a combination of rest/rotation.

Hazlewood and Cummins are both injured but Cummins also missed the tour of Sri Lanka due to his Mrs giving birth to their 2nd child.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

I know I'm beating the same drum a little in this thread but I really would treat this as a tournament warm up series. And a very good one at that.

Will judge the selection and mix at the Champions Trophy.

I just don't think England are a very good white ball side at the moment. A lot of the big teams have gone past them and they are just very very weak against any form of slow bowling.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Complete joke. What's the point of picking Banton here. This team and Rob Key show zero accountability

 

[TheGame]

I just don't think England are a very good white ball side at the moment. A lot of the big teams have gone past them and they are just very very weak against any form of slow bowling.

The issue in the last game was the bowling as opposed to the first game. The range of bowling in the team isn't good enough. McCullum has gone for pure pace where it is shown that a mix between pace and variation with other bowlers works better e.g Topley. We don't seem to have a defined number 7 and I agree someone like Dawson would do well. The problems in the team seem to be places 7-11 where there needs to be a decent mix of all rounders and pace/spin.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Complete joke. What's the point of picking Banton here. This team and Rob Key show zero accountability

It's not that bad a decision. Bethell hasn't been used much with the ball and Banton comes in with excellent form and as a good player of spin. He's been batting at 4 in the ILT20 so he's shown he's capable of playing in the middle order as well.

Fair point in that article though that they need some more all-round options. It's probably undeservedly kept Livingstone around the side. You look at Australia and pretty much their entire side can offer a few overs whereas in England we seem to end up with teams full of wicket-keepers!

I do think they should make more use of Sam Curran's batting. He's shown throughout his career in the white-ball formats that he the higher he bats, the better he is. Using him at 6/7/8 is a waste and doesn't suit him as he's not someone who can necessarily come in and smash it from ball one. He could do a solid job at 4/5 with more time to build an innings and then offer a few overs with Root and Livingstone to make up the 5th bowler.

 

[Utd heap]

It's not that bad a decision. Bethell hasn't been used much with the ball and Banton comes in with excellent form and as a good player of spin. He's been batting at 4 in the ILT20 so he's shown he's capable of playing in the middle order as well.

Fair point in that article though that they need some more all-round options. It's probably undeservedly kept Livingstone around the side. You look at Australia and pretty much their entire side can offer a few overs whereas in England we seem to end up with teams full of wicket-keepers!

I do think they should make more use of Sam Curran's batting. He's shown throughout his career in the white-ball formats that he the higher he bats, the better he is. Using him at 6/7/8 is a waste and doesn't suit him as he's not someone who can necessarily come in and smash it from ball one. He could do a solid job at 4/5 with more time to build an innings and then offer a few overs with Root and Livingstone to make up the 5th bowler.

Agree with most of that. We are a spin option short.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

I think Banton might have a future but they already have Jamie smith on the bench so why pick a guy who is basically the same as him. This team desperately needs another bowling option which is ideally a defensive spinner.

 

[Trequarista10]

Complete joke. What's the point of picking Banton here. This team and Rob Key show zero accountability

Banton has had a really good year, what's wrong with his selection?

Edit: nevermind, missed earlier posts. Yeah, an all rounder would be good. Curran should be in the squad really, and possibly another spinner. Overton has bowled well but shouldn't be at #7, he should be #8 highest.

I think England don't really rate Bethell's bowling anyway, he was basically playing as a specialist batsmen who bowls the odd over. Seems they hope to get by with Rashid, Livingstone and Root.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Banton has had a really good year, what's wrong with his selection?

Edit: nevermind, missed earlier posts. Yeah, an all rounder would be good. Curran should be in the squad really, and possibly another spinner. Overton has bowled well but shouldn't be at #7, he should be #8 highest.

I think England don't really rate Bethell's bowling anyway, he was basically playing as a specialist batsmen who bowls the odd over. Seems they hope to get by with Rashid, Livingstone and Root.

That's not true though, in the first ODI he bowled before Livingstone. I just don't see how you can make a squad out of Duckett, Salt, Brook, Jos, Banton and Smith for a tournament with at best 5 games. You need more variety in the squad. England are picking players without clear roles.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

The issue in the last game was the bowling as opposed to the first game. The range of bowling in the team isn't good enough. McCullum has gone for pure pace where it is shown that a mix between pace and variation with other bowlers works better e.g Topley. We don't seem to have a defined number 7 and I agree someone like Dawson would do well. The problems in the team seem to be places 7-11 where there needs to be a decent mix of all rounders and pace/spin.

Agree McCullum's choices in India were a bit much but I think he is trying to prepare for the conditions in the Champions Trophy itself. They got a bit screwed with Bethell getting injured and Jamie Smith also being out so probably wouldn't have played J Overton at number 7 anyway. I think Dawson should be in the squad but for some reason they dont fancy him. I just don't think it would make that much difference that's all particularly as the batting should be doing more.

 

[TheGame]

Agree McCullum's choices in India were a bit much but I think he is trying to prepare for the conditions in the Champions Trophy itself. They got a bit screwed with Bethell getting injured and Jamie Smith also being out so probably wouldn't have played J Overton at number 7 anyway. I think Dawson should be in the squad but for some reason they dont fancy him. I just don't think it would make that much difference that's all particularly as the batting should be doing more.

The problem with playing Smith is that it doesn't solve our problems, we have a top 6 (Salt, Duckett, Root, Brook, Buttler and Livingstone). Salt can also keep wicket. If Smith plays, one of the top 6 should be dropped. We then need a all rounder at 7 who can bat well and bowl followed by the bowlers. You then have Livingstone and Root as 6th and 7th choice bowlers. Bethell's bowling needs to improve. There I agree with comments above regarding Banton's call up which doesnt resolve any of the issues I have mentioned. If the batting scored 300, the bowlers should have done more to make that a tough chase.

 

[Ish]

Hazlewood and Cummins are both injured but Cummins also missed the tour of Sri Lanka due to his Mrs giving birth to their 2nd child.

Thanks bud. Surprised Boland didn't get a call up - but guessing the wicket in SL was very spin friendly.

 

[TheGame]

It's not that bad a decision. Bethell hasn't been used much with the ball and Banton comes in with excellent form and as a good player of spin. He's been batting at 4 in the ILT20 so he's shown he's capable of playing in the middle order as well.

Fair point in that article though that they need some more all-round options. It's probably undeservedly kept Livingstone around the side. You look at Australia and pretty much their entire side can offer a few overs whereas in England we seem to end up with teams full of wicket-keepers!

I do think they should make more use of Sam Curran's batting. He's shown throughout his career in the white-ball formats that he the higher he bats, the better he is. Using him at 6/7/8 is a waste and doesn't suit him as he's not someone who can necessarily come in and smash it from ball one. He could do a solid job at 4/5 with more time to build an innings and then offer a few overs with Root and Livingstone to make up the 5th bowler.

Curran is probably the best choice for the all rounder position outside of Dawson who is being ignored. The only way he would move up would be if Buttler or Livingstone drop down. Could work with Livingstone at 7.

 

[Trequarista10]

That's not true though, in the first ODI he bowled before Livingstone. I just don't see how you can make a squad out of Duckett, Salt, Brook, Jos, Banton and Smith for a tournament with at best 5 games. You need more variety in the squad. England are picking players without clear roles.

It's 100% true. He bowled 3 overs. Whether he bowls a small number of overs early or late in the innings isn't an indication of how much they rate his bowling. Joe Root has opened the bowling on occasion.

I don't disagree on the balance of the squad. It lacks a legitimate all rounder who is good with bat and ball. I guess the plan is either to persist with 4 bowlers + Overton at #7 + Livingstone, which I think is lacking depth in the batting order. Or, possibly they go 4 bowlers + Livingstone and bank on getting overs from Root, which bolsters the batting lineup but is weaker with the ball.

I think the reaction is a bit OTT. Root is probably a better bowler than Bethall anyway, and I don't think any of the spinners we could have called up should bat at #7 (except possibly Dawson, but understandable given age they're not reopening the door at this point). Possibly Jacks or Lawrence, but again I don't think they're better bowlers than Root anyway.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

It's 100% true. He bowled 3 overs. Whether he bowls a small number of overs early or late in the innings isn't an indication of how much they rate his bowling. Joe Root has opened the bowling on occasion.

I don't disagree on the balance of the squad. It lacks a legitimate all rounder who is good with bat and ball. I guess the plan is either to persist with 4 bowlers + Overton at #7 + Livingstone, which I think is lacking depth in the batting order. Or, possibly they go 4 bowlers + Livingstone and bank on getting overs from Root, which bolsters the batting lineup but is weaker with the ball.

I think the reaction is a bit OTT. Root is probably a better bowler than Bethall anyway, and I don't think any of the spinners we could have called up should bat at #7 (except possibly Dawson, but understandable given age they're not reopening the door at this point). Possibly Jacks or Lawrence, but again I don't think they're better bowlers than Root anyway.

But Overton has shown no ability to be an ODI number 7. He is at best a number 8 so you are basically going short in bowling & batting both. Bethell at least gives a left arm spin option, in ODI cricket with 4 fielders outside Joe Root is going to struggle against right handers

 

[FlawlessThaw]

The problem with playing Smith is that it doesn't solve our problems, we have a top 6 (Salt, Duckett, Root, Brook, Buttler and Livingstone). Salt can also keep wicket. If Smith plays, one of the top 6 should be dropped. We then need a all rounder at 7 who can bat well and bowl followed by the bowlers. You then have Livingstone and Root as 6th and 7th choice bowlers. Bethell's bowling needs to improve. There I agree with comments above regarding Banton's call up which doesnt resolve any of the issues I have mentioned. If the batting scored 300, the bowlers should have done more to make that a tough chase.

I don't think Smith is the answer either, my point is there is no answer for England's ODI woes. The team genuinely isn't good enough as a batting side that even if you changed the bowling line up it won't really help.

 

[Trequarista10]

But Overton has shown no ability to be an ODI number 7. He is at best a number 8 so you are basically going short in bowling & batting both. Bethell at least gives a left arm spin option, in ODI cricket with 4 fielders outside Joe Root is going to struggle against right handers

Yes, I don't like Overton at #7, and said as much.

I just don't think Bethell makes a huge difference vs Root. Just checked and he has also bowled 3 overs total across 10 T20 internationals. So it's clear the England camp don't yet see him as a genuine all rounder.

Given the top order can't be relied upon like they could in the Morgan years, I think the best plan is 4 bowlers (including Carse or Overton at #8), Livingstone, and 6 batsmen with Root chipping in. It's far from ideal but should at least mean the opposition need a decent score to win. However, I think England will persist with Overton or Carse at #7 which just isn't strong enough.

 

[TheGame]

Yes, I don't like Overton at #7, and said as much.

I just don't think Bethell makes a huge difference vs Root. Just checked and he has also bowled 3 overs total across 10 T20 internationals. So it's clear the England camp don't yet see him as a genuine all rounder.

Given the top order can't be relied upon like they could in the Morgan years, I think the best plan is 4 bowlers (including Carse or Overton at #8), Livingstone, and 6 batsmen with Root chipping in. It's far from ideal but should at least mean the opposition need a decent score to win. However, I think England will persist with Overton or Carse at #7 which just isn't strong enough.

They are probably better reverting back to Sam Curran at 7 and using Livingstone and Root at 6/7 bowlers. We definitly need someone who can bat decently at 7 especially considering we have a weaker too 6 than previously. If they wanted a spinning option, they could have gone with Dawson but they have ignored both. Or even Lewis Gregory but he won’t get a look in either.