Congratulations England - just kidding hope Pope steps on Lego
English cricket thread
- Thread starter Samid
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Congratulations England - just kidding hope Pope steps on Lego
He is though - he appealed for a caught behind on a ball that dropped short (like clearly short) in the first test too. Just irritating prickish behaviour (today's one is a fair appeal though). Also I have to call him a cheating prick or the joke I made about his surname is crap (and I can't let that happen).
Interesting to see how much support England are getting from the Pakistani crowd.
Stokes said it feels like a home series at times.
Perhaps they are just enjoying seeing good cricket?
Stokes said it feels like a home series at times.
Perhaps they are just enjoying seeing good cricket?
He is though - he appealed for a caught behind on a ball that dropped short (like clearly short) in the first test too. Just irritating prickish behaviour (today's one is a fair appeal though). Also I have to call him a cheating prick or the joke I made about his surname is crap (and I can't let that happen).
Yeah he shouldn't appeal for one that dripped short but don't want this to turn into another England India type thread
Thought Pakistan were really unlucky. Played really well. The lack of a attacking spinner from England is telling.
Turnout has been average at best to be honest. I wonder if things would feel different if Pakistan were in more commanding positions throughout the match.
Yearly record in recent years is outstanding too.
2014 - 40 wickets @ 22.15
2015 - 46 @ 22.65
2016 - 41 @ 23.73
2017 - 55 @ 17.58
2018 - 43 @ 22.51
2019 - 12 @ 30.16
2020 - 23 @ 20.47
2021 - 39 @ 21.74
2022 - 36 @ 19.80
Total of 335 @ 22.31
Outstanding, his career has pretty much taken off at the point where you'd expect him to start declining and still he continues to improve.
The catch by Pope was very marginal and it could easily have been reversed. If the soft signal of 'out' on the field now means nothing, I am not sure how an umpire could say he definitely caught it. All that aside, I don't think that in the context of the match that means Pakistan were 'really unlucky', though.
England could have played more conservatively in their second innings and batted Pakistan out of the game, but they stuck to their aggressive approach, which gave Pakistan an opportunity of chasing down a gettable score which in the end they fell 20 or so runs short of.
Ultimately it came down to Pakistan throwing away their first innings rather than luck, imo. Also, Mark Wood's pace was very pivotal in the second innings and he gave England's attack something different. It just about made up for Leach.
He's been great - not quite up there with Glenn Mcgrath but close to him in terms of consistently brilliant for such a long time and immaculate longevity.
I wonder if there's a general trend for your 'line & length' bowlers' averages getting better in the last decade due to the increase in unorthodox and quicker batting (T20s, independent 20 over cricket leagues, unorthodox shots, and more focus on higher SRs).
but Dukes ball… Clouderson…
It’s getting to the point of being a bit ridiculous now. Obviously you can argue about whose had the better career or who was the best outright pace bowler, but to be doing that at 40 years old is surely unmatched in cricket.
Isn’t it the case that if the soft signal is out then the 3rd umpire needs evidence so it’s clear to overturn?
England also threw away the end of the second innings where they really should have set a bigger total.
They’ve changed this rule from Oct 1 this year supposedly.
I disagree with @LDUred though - I think that was a pivotal moment in the context of the game and if it was reversed I think Pakistan could have gone on and won.
Cheers didn’t know that and yes I think they would have won if Shakeel stayed in.
I agree, however from a personal point of view I would give the edge to McGrath in terms of having a higher peak, but the edge to Jimmy in terms of legacy and where I would place him on the list of all time test bowlers.
Thank you for this. A few days ago I was trying to do this on Cricinfo but since they changed their system, I haven't figured out how to do yearly averages.
From memory, Anderson was a relatively ordinary fast bowler (by international standards) in his 20s, then significantly reduced his number of poor deliveries, so his average improved a lot. The nature of test cricket, especially overseas tours, could explain why some players take time to figure out what works in different conditions, thus explaining a stronger than expected 30s, relative to their 20s.
I get the impression that opposing teams have typically decided to try to survive Anderson's overs rather than risk attacking him.
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Leach is a bang average test bowler but having said that England haven't exactly been blessed with great spinners in all the years I've been watching test cricket. "Deadly" is about the best I've seen but that's 50 years ago. I'd also throw in Swann for good measure, but his test career was relatively short.
Pope's very questionable catch did indeed turn out to be pivotal but there's no guarantee either that Shakeel would have stayed in. Maybe the reason why he gave the chance was because he was getting tired. Maybe another chance was just around the corner - we'll never know.
Ultimately, it was nip and tuck throughout this test. It felt like England were the slightly better team in all departments in this test, however strongly Pakistan came back. It's a shame the series isn't longer because there's always fireworks in a PAK vs ENG series. Respect to both teams for again putting on a show.
Ultimately, it was nip and tuck throughout this test. It felt like England were the slightly better team in all departments in this test, however strongly Pakistan came back. It's a shame the series isn't longer because there's always fireworks in a PAK vs ENG series. Respect to both teams for again putting on a show.
Perhaps, but wasn't the only chance he'd given up was that insanely hard one to silly early in his innings? He'd looked absolutely solid up until then. That said, to get to 328 in the final innings of a low-scoring test match is nothing to be ashamed of, regardless of how wickets were lost.
Pakistan will feel they should have made more of their first innings having done a decent job getting England all out for well under 300. That Mark Wood cameo will be the on that should haunt them.
Going from 143/3 to 202 all out first innings is hardly pretty reading either.
I mean Pakistan could have won anyway? Just didn’t have the legs to finish it off
Shakeel was on 94 playing balls on merit and had not given an inch to the bowlers for 3 sessions. At the time of his wrongful dismissal Pakistan were I think 60 runs shy with 5 wickets down? In the context of the game it was a huge moment and irritatingly it was a very poor decision from the third umpire.
Was a good call tbh. Could have gone either way.
It really wasn’t - even the commentators were bemused it was given.
Edit: and generally for marginal decisions where camera angles are inconclusive they give the batsman the benefit of the doubt. This wasn’t even inconclusive!
Player profile and then Stats gives you those on Cricinfo, that's where I got them
Interestingly I was looking at Leach's too and if you just take the 2nd team innings then his bowling average (23.55) is better than Lyon (29.29) and Maharaj (24.48), not far off Ashwin (21.59) and Jadeja (22.11) either. His issue is the 1st where it's 49.22 and just under 60 for 1st match innings.
Ahmed and Foakes in for Jacks and Anderson.
Ahmed seems more of a batsmen who can bowl so still not a frontline spinner but it will be good to see something different to finger spin.
He’s definitely more of a bowler than Jacks or Livingstone and he’s taken plenty of wickets in the U19 World Cup.
He's a bowler mate.
He’s quoted himself saying he’s a batsmen more than a bowler. Hopefully can develop his bowling skills though.
If it was any other England regime I’d be very concerned with giving Rehan Ahmed his debut now. Really interested to see how Stokes/McCullum invest in him and how he develops.
Hopefully he can replicate this first up to Babar:
Hopefully he can replicate this first up to Babar:
Can’t say I’ve seen Ahmed play, but he must be a very talented wrist spinner otherwise Baz & Stokesy wouldn’t go near him. Should we expect him to leak runs, but bowl the odd magic ball? He’s certainly got Shane Warne like wrists judging from the clips I’ve seen. Looking forward to see if England can get a 3-0 win. Although it’s not the strongest of Pakistan sides, a series whitewash in Pakistan would be another remarkable achievement in basically 6 quite remarkable months for the England test side. Jaw dropping it is.
Obviously Stokes rested his bowling last test for this test and, assuming Ahmed is a much better batter than Anderson, England’s batting looks strong and long for this test. I just worry how much damage Abrar will do, England were struggling to play him last test.
Obviously Stokes rested his bowling last test for this test and, assuming Ahmed is a much better batter than Anderson, England’s batting looks strong and long for this test. I just worry how much damage Abrar will do, England were struggling to play him last test.
England’s day so far. That was an atrocious shot by Rizwan off Root’s pie ball.
Nerves clearly got the better of Ahmed in the first session but he was very good in the second. Serious bowler on our hands here.
Let’s hope they stick with him for a bit. Finding a leg spin bowler would be great.
What a suicidal run to take.
Big wicket that.
I don’t see him staying in after this tour to be honest, go away and play some red ball with Leicestershire to iron out some of the inconsistency, but there’s a big future possible.
Think next time he plays for England it’ll be with a white ball for sure.
I’m not sure. I think England think they can better develop a spinner than county cricket can. Not that will mean him playing test cricket all the time, but I think he’s spending more time around the squad for sure.
As this game has gone on I’m leaning towards him staying with the side too to be honest. He’s having a superb debut.
Well you might as well give that a try as County have struggled to develop quality spinners in recent years for red ball cricket.