Slabber said:
Havnt seen much of Louden myself, is he any good?
England vs Pakistan first test thread
- Thread starter Nate
- Start date
Havnt seen much of Louden myself, is he any good?
Dubai_Devil said:
I've no idea. I just don't think Collingwood is Test class.
Apparently the England team warmed up for the today's play by watching Lovejoy.
Dubai_Devil said:
Money making scam, God look at their crimes.
Trescothick may have to fly home
Trescothick captained England in the first Test
England stand-in captain Marcus Trescothick may have to fly home from the tour of Pakistan because of a family accident.
His father-in-law was taken to hospital at the weekend after falling off a ladder at home.
An England spokesman told BBC Sport: "Until he has had another opportunity to speak with family members we can't make any further comment."
England, 1-0 down in the series, start the second Test on Sunday.
The spokesman said he did not know how seriously injured Trescothick's father-in-law is adding: "We are still trying to find out more details so we can't speculate on what might happen."
If Trescothick does need to fly home it will leave England with a batting headache, if captain Michael Vaughan does not recover from a knee injury to lead his team in the second Test in Faisalabad.
And England are also likely to be without Andrew Strauss for the third Test as he intends to return home for the birth of his first child.
Losing Vaughan and Trescothick for the second Test would need England appointing yet another captain. All-rounder Andrew Flintoff or left-arm spinner Ashley Giles would probably be seen as the best options. England have already brought in batting cover by calling up Essex's Alastair Cook.
England stand-in captain Marcus Trescothick may have to fly home from the tour of Pakistan because of a family accident.
His father-in-law was taken to hospital at the weekend after falling off a ladder at home.
An England spokesman told BBC Sport: "Until he has had another opportunity to speak with family members we can't make any further comment."
England, 1-0 down in the series, start the second Test on Sunday.
The spokesman said he did not know how seriously injured Trescothick's father-in-law is adding: "We are still trying to find out more details so we can't speculate on what might happen."
If Trescothick does need to fly home it will leave England with a batting headache, if captain Michael Vaughan does not recover from a knee injury to lead his team in the second Test in Faisalabad.
And England are also likely to be without Andrew Strauss for the third Test as he intends to return home for the birth of his first child.
Losing Vaughan and Trescothick for the second Test would need England appointing yet another captain. All-rounder Andrew Flintoff or left-arm spinner Ashley Giles would probably be seen as the best options. England have already brought in batting cover by calling up Essex's Alastair Cook.
Dubai_Devil said:
One spinner's enough. Pakistan only used one spinner. (cept one over from part time spinner Shoaib Malik). And I don't agree. On these pitches it's better to have an extra bowler. Your top order should be making big runs on featherbeds. I'd replace Udal who's shite with Anderson. . . who's not exactly brilliant thesedays, but is more potent than Udal.
Spoony said:
Everytime I have seen Andserson play he has looked poor. Ideally England would have four pace bowlers and a spinner, but without Jones I dont see anyone who could do a job. If Anderson came in and bowled like he did in South Africa, it would just take the pressure off of the Pakistanis and England would have to carry him for the rest of the match.
I don't rate Anderson.
Nor do I.
Vaughan could confirm Test return
Vaughan was forced to watch England's opening defeat
England captain Michael Vaughan is expected to confirm his fitness for the second Test against Pakistan.
A news conference has been called for 1230 GMT on Thursday and coach Duncan Fletcher was hopeful Vaughan would be fine for Faisalabad on Sunday.
Vaughan missed Multan with a knee injury but Fletcher said: "There's a very good chance he could play.
"We're pretty confident that given another couple of days of work on it he will be ready."
Vaughan, 30, has had a history of trouble with the joint, and aggravated it during the warm-up game before the first Test.
But he was seen jogging and batting in the nets in Multan.
"The knee is improving. It's always been a bit of a problem and it might still be," Fletcher added.
"But he feels comfortable, he's running around and feeling no pain."
Chairman of selectors David Graveney did issue a note of caution, however, saying: "I think we have to leave it to the 11th hour and see how he responds to practise.
"It's one thing having a net, another thing running up and down in a match situation.
"But I know he's desperate to play and it's been a very unusual and probably a very painful experience for him to sit on the sidelines for five days."
Ian Bell was Vaughan's replacement in the opening Test but Paul Collingwood could also be considered to make way for the skipper's return. Essex youngster Alastair Cook was called into the squad as cover and still be needed as Andrew Strauss is expected to miss the third Test to attend the birth of his first child.
England captain Michael Vaughan is expected to confirm his fitness for the second Test against Pakistan.
A news conference has been called for 1230 GMT on Thursday and coach Duncan Fletcher was hopeful Vaughan would be fine for Faisalabad on Sunday.
Vaughan missed Multan with a knee injury but Fletcher said: "There's a very good chance he could play.
"We're pretty confident that given another couple of days of work on it he will be ready."
Vaughan, 30, has had a history of trouble with the joint, and aggravated it during the warm-up game before the first Test.
But he was seen jogging and batting in the nets in Multan.
"The knee is improving. It's always been a bit of a problem and it might still be," Fletcher added.
"But he feels comfortable, he's running around and feeling no pain."
Chairman of selectors David Graveney did issue a note of caution, however, saying: "I think we have to leave it to the 11th hour and see how he responds to practise.
"It's one thing having a net, another thing running up and down in a match situation.
"But I know he's desperate to play and it's been a very unusual and probably a very painful experience for him to sit on the sidelines for five days."
Ian Bell was Vaughan's replacement in the opening Test but Paul Collingwood could also be considered to make way for the skipper's return. Essex youngster Alastair Cook was called into the squad as cover and still be needed as Andrew Strauss is expected to miss the third Test to attend the birth of his first child.
So its decided, Anderson doesnt play.
Seeing as Slabber has gotten himself banned again, i'll take over the posting of articles.
The chucking controversy:
Shabbir and Malik reported for suspect bowling actions
November 17, 2005
Shabbir Ahmed and Shoaib Malik, the Pakistan bowlers, have both been reported for suspect illegal bowling actions after the conclusion of Pakistan's opening Test match against England at Multan.
Both bowlers were reported by Billy Bowden and Simon Taufel, the on-field officials, and Asad Rauf, the TV umpire. Regarding Shabbir, Bowden and Taufel felt satisfied when watching him bowl in the nets as well as the early stages of the match. However, both claimed they noticed a deterioration in his bowling action from the third day of the match - in particular when bowling the "effort" ball and short pitched deliveries - which they suspected may be illegal. Bowden and Taufel also expressed concern that they could see extension in the elbow while Malik was bowling with a "stop and prop" method of delivery.
Both bowlers have been called for suspect actions before - Shabbir was reported after only his first one-day game back in 1999, and Malik's action was last reported in October 2004. Shabbir was only recently permitted by the ICC to bowl again, after being reported in the West Indies in May. The Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) then arranged for Shabbir to undergo corrective work, and a biomedical analysis of his action was submitted to the University of Western Australia in September. Scientists found Shabbir's action to be within the ICC's prescribed 15 degree level of tolerance and confirmed that there had been a marked improvement, but not without suggesting areas of probable concern. It seems this issue has resurfaced, in just his first Test in six months.
According to Roshan Mahanama, the ICC Match referee, both Shabbir and Malik will be permitted to play international cricket pending the outcome of independent biomechanical analysis. "Both players have been reported in the past," Mahanama said in an official media release, "and while it has been shown that in laboratory conditions they are capable of bowling within the legal limits, the match officials had concerns with the actions they used during certain stages of this match when viewing their actions with the naked eye.
"This has led the team of officials to request the ICC to commission biomechanical reports into their actions in accordance with the new process introduced earlier this year." These biomechanical reports will fall under the jurisdiction of the ICC's revised bowling review process that was introduced in March 2005. Mahanama informed both the ICC and the Pakistan team management of the report, as per the ICC regulations governing the reporting process.
The last time he was called, in October 2004, the ICC's new process was yet to be introduced, and thus his action fell outside the permitted limits. But, following remedial work, further analysis commissioned by the PCB identified an improvement in his action. If Malik is found to be bowling with an illegal action he will be suspended from bowling in international cricket immediately. He then has the option of applying to the ICC for a re-assessment of his bowling action at any time in order to return to bowling in international cricket.
Both bowlers will now undergo independent analysis of their actions by a member of the ICC's panel of human movement specialists. This analysis involves a detailed comparison between the action of the bowler in the laboratory and the action he used in the match in which he was reported. This will take place as soon as practically possible, and within a maximum period of 21 days from receipt by the PCB of formal notice of the reports by the ICC. Within 14 days of the independent analysis being carried out, the appointed specialist will supply the ICC with written reports advising the outcome of the bio-mechanical assessments.
As for Shabbir and Malik, they will be allowed to play international cricket - including the next Test against England - should they be selected. At any time during this period they are subject to being called on the field in accordance with the ICC's laws.
The chucking controversy:
Shabbir and Malik reported for suspect bowling actions
November 17, 2005
Shabbir Ahmed and Shoaib Malik, the Pakistan bowlers, have both been reported for suspect illegal bowling actions after the conclusion of Pakistan's opening Test match against England at Multan.
Both bowlers were reported by Billy Bowden and Simon Taufel, the on-field officials, and Asad Rauf, the TV umpire. Regarding Shabbir, Bowden and Taufel felt satisfied when watching him bowl in the nets as well as the early stages of the match. However, both claimed they noticed a deterioration in his bowling action from the third day of the match - in particular when bowling the "effort" ball and short pitched deliveries - which they suspected may be illegal. Bowden and Taufel also expressed concern that they could see extension in the elbow while Malik was bowling with a "stop and prop" method of delivery.
Both bowlers have been called for suspect actions before - Shabbir was reported after only his first one-day game back in 1999, and Malik's action was last reported in October 2004. Shabbir was only recently permitted by the ICC to bowl again, after being reported in the West Indies in May. The Pakistan Cricket Board (PCB) then arranged for Shabbir to undergo corrective work, and a biomedical analysis of his action was submitted to the University of Western Australia in September. Scientists found Shabbir's action to be within the ICC's prescribed 15 degree level of tolerance and confirmed that there had been a marked improvement, but not without suggesting areas of probable concern. It seems this issue has resurfaced, in just his first Test in six months.
According to Roshan Mahanama, the ICC Match referee, both Shabbir and Malik will be permitted to play international cricket pending the outcome of independent biomechanical analysis. "Both players have been reported in the past," Mahanama said in an official media release, "and while it has been shown that in laboratory conditions they are capable of bowling within the legal limits, the match officials had concerns with the actions they used during certain stages of this match when viewing their actions with the naked eye.
"This has led the team of officials to request the ICC to commission biomechanical reports into their actions in accordance with the new process introduced earlier this year." These biomechanical reports will fall under the jurisdiction of the ICC's revised bowling review process that was introduced in March 2005. Mahanama informed both the ICC and the Pakistan team management of the report, as per the ICC regulations governing the reporting process.
The last time he was called, in October 2004, the ICC's new process was yet to be introduced, and thus his action fell outside the permitted limits. But, following remedial work, further analysis commissioned by the PCB identified an improvement in his action. If Malik is found to be bowling with an illegal action he will be suspended from bowling in international cricket immediately. He then has the option of applying to the ICC for a re-assessment of his bowling action at any time in order to return to bowling in international cricket.
Both bowlers will now undergo independent analysis of their actions by a member of the ICC's panel of human movement specialists. This analysis involves a detailed comparison between the action of the bowler in the laboratory and the action he used in the match in which he was reported. This will take place as soon as practically possible, and within a maximum period of 21 days from receipt by the PCB of formal notice of the reports by the ICC. Within 14 days of the independent analysis being carried out, the appointed specialist will supply the ICC with written reports advising the outcome of the bio-mechanical assessments.
As for Shabbir and Malik, they will be allowed to play international cricket - including the next Test against England - should they be selected. At any time during this period they are subject to being called on the field in accordance with the ICC's laws.
Dubai_Devil said:
He's not all that I agree. But he's better than having Udal or an extra batsman. Faisalabad's probably the flattest track in the world. No need for an extra batsman. Personally, I can't see that being other than a draw - unless they've relayed the pitch and it's completely different.
If I'm honest, I think we've lost this series. Lahore's a bit touch and go as well.
Shabbir Ahmed chucking is as blatant as it could get.
Bit like Afridi's quicker ball of around 80mph while bowling spin.
Bit like Afridi's quicker ball of around 80mph while bowling spin.
Cant believe England bottled this one. Really thought they had this in the bag. They really need to learn how to play leg spin, its embarissing how awful they are at it.. credit to Pakistan though, they usually do perform at their best when the chips are down, and theyr least expected to.
Personally i wanted Pakistan to win this, the rest of the series should be a lot closer this way.
Personally i wanted Pakistan to win this, the rest of the series should be a lot closer this way.
What do you think of having Trescothick and Strauss missing for the next test. Two if our most influencial batsmen not playing cannot be good for us.
ManUtdRed said:
Strauss is not going to miss the next test, he will probably miss the 3rd test. It is not definate that Tresco will miss the 2nd test either, but whatever happens, its not exactly ideal is it.
Dubai_Devil said:
Shabbir Ahmed and Shoiab Malik will not be missed much in regards to their bowling, Abdul Razzak was to replace Shabbir if fit anyway, Shoaib will play as a batsmen only, with Shahid Afridi taking over from Hasan Raza. This will give Pakistan a much more potent bowling attack and clearly a strong batting lineup.
crappycraperson said:
It's beyond me how he is an international bowler...the action commitee have done the selectors a favour, Abdul Razzak will replace him.
how bout mushtaq and kaneria with two pace bowlers and let razak be the 5th..
leviathan said:
With respect, that would lead to a long tail, with the wicketkeeper in at six and Abdul Razzak at seven, Pakistan having won the first test will look to have a stronger batting line-up for the remaining test matches.
Shahid Afridi is no slouch with the bowl, and on his day is devastating with the bat. Of course it all depends on Abdul Razzak's availability.
amolbhatia100 said:
I don't think we did. They bowled really well, you'll always get the odd loose dismissal, that goes for every team. I said 200 would be a tough target and felt we may rue only getting 400ish in our first innings. On that track I felt Pakistan could put up a decent total in the second, and if you think about it they could've easily set a bigger target, I think they were 250 odd for 3 or something at one time, but totally lost it after Inzamam was out, padding up to a straight ball. Apparently scores of over 195 have only been chased 7 times in Pakistan, so it wasn't as easy as most on here thought.
Trescothick to stay in Pakistan
November 17, 2005
Marcus Trescothick has decided to remain with the England squad in Pakistan, and will not be flying home to be with his family, after his father-in-law was hospitalised with serious head injuries after falling from a ladder on Wednesday.
"The past few days have been very traumatic for my family, and I am naturally extremely concerned for my father-in-law," said Trescothick. "Having talked with my family and the England captain and coach, I've decided to remain with the squad."
His father-in-law's condition is now described as stable, but Trescothick discussed all options with England's management team before reaching his decision. "Family becomes more important than cricket in these situations," said his captain, Michael Vaughan, who missed the first Test with a knee injury. "But his presence is enormous and hopefully he will be available for selection."
If England had lost Trescothick, then it would have put even more pressure on Vaughan to return in time for the Faisalabad Test. Trescothick has been the form batsman of the tour, and at Multan his first-innings score of 193 was more than the entire team managed in the second innings.
England are also likely to lose Andrew Strauss for the third Test as he is scheduled to return home for the birth of his child. Batting cover has already been brought in, with Essex's Alastair Cook summoned to Pakistan last week when Vaughan broke down.
November 17, 2005
Marcus Trescothick has decided to remain with the England squad in Pakistan, and will not be flying home to be with his family, after his father-in-law was hospitalised with serious head injuries after falling from a ladder on Wednesday.
"The past few days have been very traumatic for my family, and I am naturally extremely concerned for my father-in-law," said Trescothick. "Having talked with my family and the England captain and coach, I've decided to remain with the squad."
His father-in-law's condition is now described as stable, but Trescothick discussed all options with England's management team before reaching his decision. "Family becomes more important than cricket in these situations," said his captain, Michael Vaughan, who missed the first Test with a knee injury. "But his presence is enormous and hopefully he will be available for selection."
If England had lost Trescothick, then it would have put even more pressure on Vaughan to return in time for the Faisalabad Test. Trescothick has been the form batsman of the tour, and at Multan his first-innings score of 193 was more than the entire team managed in the second innings.
England are also likely to lose Andrew Strauss for the third Test as he is scheduled to return home for the birth of his child. Batting cover has already been brought in, with Essex's Alastair Cook summoned to Pakistan last week when Vaughan broke down.
Vaughan is fit...
as is KP...
but, uh, in a different way
as is KP...
but, uh, in a different way
GiggsysGirl said:Vaughan is fit...
as is KP...
but, uh, in a different way
Hopefully Vaughan has recovered completely from his knee injury, England really do need his experience in the middle-order.
No 2nd test thread?
One loss and glory hunters abandon the ship.
Good start by English, Pak: 82/3
One loss and glory hunters abandon the ship.
Good start by English, Pak: 82/3
Afridi is tearing apart ya lot right now
wrong forum
Interesting stat that.. but i still think the wicket wasnt doing enough, teams were often in fabulous situations 160/2, 250/3 etc but just began to collapse. This is one thing that happens often in the subcontinent or atleast used to here on Indian pitches as well. Any tourists, the aussies or english, would generally lose wickets in a heap.. its happened so often, must have something to do with getting in and taking time to get used to the conditions, and IMO also a little to do with the mind.Spoony said:
What happened to the 2nd test thread?
Good start for England on a wicket that has done absolutely nothing, but Pakistan then took control. This match is going to end in a draw.
Good start for England on a wicket that has done absolutely nothing, but Pakistan then took control. This match is going to end in a draw.
England 44 for 2
Dubai_Devil said:
Cricket debate has come to a trickle, the "glory hunters" have gone in hiding, and ummmmmmmm Slabbs is missing.
Sultan said:
True.As soon as the thread gets moved here it's dead.
Bad start for England, clearly not as in form as they have been for ages.
Bad start for England, clearly not as in form as they have been for ages.
Nate said:
Good point Nate...
Some really controversial decisions, plain daft.
Sultan said:
Only one was wrong tho.
Nate said:
True Nate, but inzi's
His was the wrong one.
People going on about the Treso catch must be blind.
People going on about the Treso catch must be blind.
England now 107 for 3