England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion

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RedDevilCanuck said:
Straight up way too easy to nullify this team.

Southgate picks a team that lacks pace, doesn't want to get in behind, lacks a proper midfielder with a wide passing range.

I can see why Trent was used but he's not a midfielder.

Kane, Foden, Palmer, Saka all clog up the middle.

Rashford despite a horrible season and questionable attitude would actually help this side. Hell even Sterling would.

Watkins would definitely help but Southgate is probably too scared to even sub a half fit Kane at 60 Mins.

Mainoo needs to start and Southgate is really gambling on a half fit Shaw to perform a minor miracle and add some much needed width.

In international football you absolutely need a creative threat from deep - a long range passer or a tricky winger that can advance the ball.
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It just makes no sense to have TAA as a midfielder when you have nobody in the team who likes to run inbehind. First, he can't utilize his passing range this way and second this condenses the midfield and exposes his biggest weakness as a CM which is his pressing (ir)resistance.

But even if you field the current team, you could instruct the players to make runs inbehind. I get that you can't coach a complete system into a squad in the short preparation time before an EC but at least that much should be possible.
 
glazed said:
I remember the Sun doing sack Robson phone ins during Mexico 86. In 1990 the players forced him to switch to 5 at the back and totally change the team. None of this is new.
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Lineker addressed this the other day – it wasn't a player revolt, it was Sir Bobby coming to a few of the senior players and getting their thoughts and input on the potential switch.
 
Foden is back in training and Shaw is available for selection again. If we're looking comfortable, I'd look to get him on at around 60/70 minutes. If the game is tight, I would limit it to the final 10 minutes or so in case extra time is required.
 
Zehner said:
It just makes no sense to have TAA as a midfielder when you have nobody in the team who likes to run inbehind. First, he can't utilize his passing range this way and second this condenses the midfield and exposes his biggest weakness as a CM which is his pressing (ir)resistance.

But even if you field the current team, you could instruct the players to make runs inbehind. I get that you can't coach a complete system into a squad in the short preparation time before an EC but at least that much should be possible.
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That's the issue. Southgate looking at players in isolation rather than the tactical cohesion and solution as a whole. Trent worked better against Bosnia when Palmer was very mobile in the inside-right and no10 channels, and when Eze offered a decent outlet from a wide left position. He worked even better when Grealish came on who played as an orthodox left winger. All of a sudden, the play opened up with Trent and Grealish on opposite flanks.
 
swooshboy said:
Lineker addressed this the other day – it wasn't a player revolt, it was Sir Bobby coming to a few of the senior players and getting their thoughts and input on the potential switch.
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Yeah I got the sense it was more nuanced than that in later retellings. Nobody wanted to make the old guy look bad but it was also something that emerged under immense outside pressure I think

Telegraph article

"For his whole life, Sir Bobby Robson said that the notion his players had dictated to him was a “ludicrous concept”. In Robson’s 2005 autobiography with the celebrated sportswriter Paul Hayward, he was clear. “I was,” Robson said, “never dictated to by my players.”

Seventeen years later, Hayward wrote the definitive history of the England team and asked Bryan Robson for his view. The England captain of 1990 said that, along with Lineker and Chris Waddle, he had spoken to the manager. “We thought the sweeper system would suit the players and suit the team,” Robson said. "
 
glazed said:
I remember the Sun doing sack Robson phone ins during Mexico 86. In 1990 the players forced him to switch to 5 at the back and totally change the team. None of this is new.
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Exactly, he was forced to play Beardsley and the Robson injury and Wilkins red card changed the MF. He got lucky that it clicked and fortunately learned by Italia 90 that flair players like Gazza were important.
 
Fortitude said:
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I tend to always side with Keane regarding player personnel on England.
I do think Saka should be left out of the first 11 atm, or potentially moved over to LB.
Saka hasn't impressed me this tournament. I think he looks equally as leggy as Bellingham.
But Wright gets too defensive and annoyingly overly emotional.

We need to be less sentimental. It's a short tournament. You play the players who you think can win you the game and at the moment there's a few players who aren't doing it. So, you take them out and give others (Palmer, Mainoo, Wharton) a go.

Sentimentality is another aspect that fails England.
 
FrankDrebin said:
I tend to always side with Keane regarding player personnel on England.
I do think Saka should be left out of the first 11 atm, or potentially moved over to LB.
Saka hasn't impressed me this tournament. I think he looks equally as leggy as Bellingham.
But Wright gets too defensive and annoyingly overly emotional.

We need to be less sentimental. It's a short tournament. You play the players who you think can win you the game and at the moment there's a few players who aren't doing it. So, you take them out and give others (Palmer, Mainoo, Wharton) a go.

Sentimentality is another aspect that fails England.
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Definitely, but also the influence of the media. Dropping Kane, for example, would be seen as an outrage. Players tend to be more predetermined than they should be, where merit and form would be a very useful bridge to get the team through to the next round, and the next, and also in having a squad ready and able to rotate in and immediately pick up the baton.

Palmer looks a special talent, and an effective one at that. There’s absolutely no harm in that being explored. It also gives Saka rest - if he’s not played in another position - to keep him fired up and eager to reclaim his position.

Foden or Bellingham is the biggest elephant in the room. They can’t play together and one needs to be picked over the other, sentiment be damned.
 
FrankDrebin said:
I tend to always side with Keane regarding player personnel on England.
I do think Saka should be left out of the first 11 atm, or potentially moved over to LB.
Saka hasn't impressed me this tournament. I think he looks equally as leggy as Bellingham.
But Wright gets too defensive and annoyingly overly emotional.

We need to be less sentimental. It's a short tournament. You play the players who you think can win you the game and at the moment there's a few players who aren't doing it. So, you take them out and give others (Palmer, Mainoo, Wharton) a go.

Sentimentality is another aspect that fails England.
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Quite agree.
Sentimentality could cost England.
Southgate has to face it that just picking the same players isn't working.
That is because they are not functioning effectively as a unit and the formation is not balanced.
He is going to have to select a team to win and not just to not lose.
 
Fortitude said:
Definitely, but also the influence of the media. Dropping Kane, for example, would be seen as an outrage. Players tend to be more predetermined than they should be, where merit and form would be a very useful bridge to get the team through to the next round, and the next, and also in having a squad ready and able to rotate in and immediately pick up the baton.

Palmer looks a special talent, and an effective one at that. There’s absolutely no harm in that being explored. It also gives Saka rest - if he’s not played in another position - to keep him fired up and eager to reclaim his position.

Foden or Bellingham is the biggest elephant in the room. They can’t play together and one needs to be picked over the other, sentiment be damned.
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I think it's way more Bellingham or Kane.
 
He's going to just bring in mainoo and nothing else, isn't he?

He needs to drop one of foden for bellingham (or play the latter deeper). It's just not happening with them on the pitch. We look completely out of ideas in the final 3rd
 
DixieDean said:
He's going to just bring in mainoo and nothing else, isn't he?

He needs to drop one of foden for bellingham (or play the latter deeper). It's just not happening with them on the pitch. We look completely out of ideas in the final 3rd
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I wouldn't be surprised if he goes with an unchanged team.

Either he's stubborn, clueless or too scared to drop these big name players.
 
DixieDean said:
He's going to just bring in mainoo and nothing else, isn't he?

He needs to drop one of foden for bellingham (or play the latter deeper). It's just not happening with them on the pitch. We look completely out of ideas in the final 3rd
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Assuming everyone is fit I’d be 100% confident that will be the only change. Possibly we might see the Palmer/Gordon changes a bit earlier though if it isn’t going well.
 
waza7111 said:
I wouldn't be surprised if he goes with an unchanged team.

Either he's stubborn, clueless or too scared to drop these big name players.
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It's the latter! Which is a bizarre head space that he's in because most people think it would be the right move.
 
Grinner said:
Nobody remembers the shit group stages if we go on a decent run. Mexico 86 was dire until we were forced into major team changes and powered through knockout almost doing the Argies. Italia 90 group games were terrible but you only ever see highlights of Platty's goal, Lineker scoring against Cameroon and Germany, and Gazza's tears. 96 was better as we hammered Holland and got the nation going until Germany nicked it at the death...and so on and so on.

We'll win handily on Sunday and gain momentum. Final against Spain is a very real possibility now and anything can happen in one game.
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I would advise not looking any further than Sunday, just remember what happened in 2016 with a "favourable side of the draw"
 
He has to change the front 4.
It was always really, really obvious that it wouldn't work. Doubly so with Trippier and Walker. Literally half of them aren't entirely fit. He's given them 3 games. Theres so, so many reasons to swap it up.
Your not even dropping them. Change the team after an hour. Use the subs bench. A fresh saka coming on against a guy who's had to deal with Palmer for an hour is a great opportunity for him, get him a goal and get him going in the tournament.
If Kane is on the pitch it should be Gordon and Palmer either side of him. I'd have Foden too personally but i'd muddle through with Bellingham if you twisted my arm. Bring in Watkins and Saka after an hour. I'd try to avoid leaving the likes of Mainoo, Palmer, Gordon on the pitch for more than an hour. I'd start all 3 though.
 
caid said:
He has to change the front 4.
It was always really, really obvious that it wouldn't work. Doubly so with Trippier and Walker. Literally half of them aren't entirely fit. He's given them 3 games. Theres so, so many reasons to swap it up.
Your not even dropping them. Change the team after an hour. Use the subs bench. A fresh saka coming on against a guy who's had to deal with Palmer for an hour is a great opportunity for him, get him a goal and get him going in the tournament.
If Kane is on the pitch it should be Gordon and Palmer either side of him. I'd have Foden too personally but i'd muddle through with Bellingham if you twisted my arm. Bring in Watkins and Saka after an hour. I'd try to avoid leaving the likes of Mainoo, Palmer, Gordon on the pitch for more than an hour. I'd start all 3 though.
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He'd rather cut off his left bollock than drop kane.
 
FrankDrebin said:
I tend to always side with Keane regarding player personnel on England.
I do think Saka should be left out of the first 11 atm, or potentially moved over to LB.
Saka hasn't impressed me this tournament. I think he looks equally as leggy as Bellingham.
But Wright gets too defensive and annoyingly overly emotional.

We need to be less sentimental. It's a short tournament. You play the players who you think can win you the game and at the moment there's a few players who aren't doing it. So, you take them out and give others (Palmer, Mainoo, Wharton) a go.

Sentimentality is another aspect that fails England.
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For me though, Saka has looked the most likely to make something happen among that front 3, and that's with the highly ineffective Walker (attack-wise) behind him. I don't know whether it's a Southgate thing, but Walker looks even worse than AWB in terms of supporting the attack.

Palmer did extremely well and that's probably a factor as to why Saka is the one being mentioned, but he came on against tired legs and at some point had the more adventurous TAA behind him. I'd personally keep Palmer as an impact player, especially considering the right hand side of this attack is not the perennially blunt part this tournament. The left side of attack is area that has underwhelmed the most. England's attack has been described during this campaign as lop-sided so not sure why the player on the side that at least threatens the opposition is the one under the microscope.

Why are Foden and Kane untouchable? Kane could be forgiven for pointing to his history in an England shirt, but Foden?? I genuinely don't get it. He's never impressed in an England shirt
 
With Italy being knocked they have got an easy route to the final, jammy feckers might actually pull this off.
 
I’m starting to feel that this time we’re going to go out to a ‘lesser’ team, eg Slovakia or Switzerland - without even a whimper. It’ll make a change to losing to the likes of Croatia, Italy and France under this cowardly manager.

We’re so uninspiring and I can’t wait for Safegate to go.
 
Glorio said:
For me though, Saka has looked the most likely to make something happen among that front 3, and that's with the highly ineffective Walker (attack-wise) behind him. I don't know whether it's a Southgate thing, but Walker looks even worse than AWB in terms of supporting the attack.

Palmer did extremely well and that's probably a factor as to why Saka is the one being mentioned, but he came on against tired legs and at some point had the more adventurous TAA behind him. I'd personally keep Palmer as an impact player, especially considering the right hand side of this attack is not the perennially blunt part this tournament. The left side of attack is area that has underwhelmed the most. England's attack has been described during this campaign as lop-sided so not sure why the player on the side that at least threatens the opposition is the one under the microscope.

Why are Foden and Kane untouchable? Kane could be forgiven for pointing to his history in an England shirt, but Foden?? I genuinely don't get it. He's never impressed in an England shirt
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He's been England's best player and used badly by Southgate.
 
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hp88 said:
With Italy being knocked they have got an easy route to the final, jammy feckers might actually pull this off.
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Honestly Switzerland look so much more dangerous and threatening than Italy ever did. They'll massively fancy their chances, and rightfully so, if we face them.

On paper we should be happy, its once again a ridiculous route to the final potentially.
 
Hammondo said:
https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...alysis-how-others-have-seen-england-euro-2024

Great article imo, the Spanish and German reviews were best for me.
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Was a very good article – I actually think this is on the money:

‘Predictable and not harmonious’
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What we saw in the first three games, albeit with plenty of time to improve, has been a predictable and not very harmonious team. A team shrunken on the left, one where Marc Guéhi (is it confidence or a lack of status?) and the right-footed Kieran Trippier are far from the capacity of Kyle Walker and John Stones in the buildup, and where Trent Alexander-Arnold is unable to imitate full-time what he achieves in moments for Liverpool in a midfield which has one more player than England’s. England are unable to break lines and then are faced with low blocks that are quite hard to penetrate. The connection with Declan Rice has not been easy to find.
In attack, it seems the only one who always knows what he has to do, because that’s what he always does, is Bukayo Saka, which reduces the English process to the connection between him and Walker. Harry Kane is forced to drop more than a false 9 should and Phil Foden and Jude Bellingham often tread the same ground, as a result of the Real Madrid midfielder’s freedom and taste for treading on the inside left channel. If Alexander-Arnold isn’t an organiser, neither is Conor Gallagher. Southgate has been slow to find the right player there and the correct space for Foden and Bellingham, who can and should be compatible. Luís Mateus, A Bola (Portugal)
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That_Bloke said:
He's been England's best player and used badly by Southgate.
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I agree that he has been our most threatening player. But all the times he has threatened, it is when he has come into the middle, basically into the #10 role.

No idea how Southgate can't see this. He has a very talented squad, and if he was able to step backto see what we needed in the different positions, he would realise we have all those players in the squad.
 
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