England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion

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groovyalbert said:
The issue with England is as much Southgate bowing to external pressures than anything. No way should some of the squad be anywhere near the team based on 6-9 months good football.

Managers should back themselves with the players they know to work with. Sure, throw a few in there but Southgate has packed his options with far too many unknowns.
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Who were these unknowns that let him down today?
 
groovyalbert said:
The issue with England is as much Southgate bowing to external pressures than anything. No way should some of the squad be anywhere near the team based on 6-9 months good football.

Managers should back themselves with the players they know to work with. Sure, throw a few in there but Southgate has packed his options with far too many unknowns.
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Problem is even the knowns are playing like utter shite at the moment, that first 11 on paper beat most teams comfortably, but the tactics, putting players in odd positions and too many of the attackers are occupying the same space are causing us to play far less than the sum of their parts.

Its all very well blaming the Eze's, Bowen's, Gallagher's of the squad, but I'm not sure any other of the starters in the squad today other than maybe Stones and Geuhi were more than a 6 out of 10...and thats the 3rd match in a row now that the entire squad has been pretty horrific as an average.
 
groovyalbert said:
The issue with England is as much Southgate bowing to external pressures than anything. No way should some of the squad be anywhere near the team based on 6-9 months good football.

Managers should back themselves with the players they know to work with. Sure, throw a few in there but Southgate has packed his options with far too many unknowns.
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I don't follow the prem as religiously as I used to when I was younger. Up until the last 5 years I could name an 11 for every team in the prem. When the England squad was announced there were about 4-5 players that I had never heard of. Definitely unknowns. That centre half from palace has played OK apart from a brain fart today but he recovered well.
 
Robbie Boy said:
Absolute hype job.
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He's playing alongside Trent who does absolutely nothing. Rice has never been a midfielder who will run a game, he's the type who provides energy and balance to a midfield but if you neglect that by putting in Mr. Hollywood who strolls around doing nothing then he will struggle. Put Mainoo or Wharton beside him and they'll both elevate each other.
 
SilentWitness said:
He's playing alongside Trent who does absolutely nothing. Rice has never been a midfielder who will run a game, he's the type who provides energy and balance to a midfield but if you neglect that by putting in Mr. Hollywood who strolls around doing nothing then he will struggle. Put Mainoo or Wharton beside him and they'll both elevate each other.
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Playing TAA in CM is peak Southgate. But, Rice just isn't the player that he's made out to be by the Arsenal/English fans/media.
 
reddev3 said:
Who were these unknowns that let him down today?
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Trent in midfield, Eze literally did nothing, Bowen tried his hardest to injury himself and Watkins was utterly ineffective after a decent burst.

I get we should demand more from the first XI and I'm not trying to defend them. It's genuinely unfair to throw all of the above plus the likes of Mainoo, Wharton, Toney, Gordon into the fray. They are all part time internationals at best. Nothing can replace experience in these moments unfortunately, and we have a squad largely purged of experience in depth presumably because Southgate was scared of the backlash had he opted for the likes of Radhford, Grealish, Sterling, Henderson, etc.

As a manager, you should be brave enough to back your players. I don't think this squad has the cohesion of past Southgate squads and that's a sign of poor selections.

Yes, Southgate is a massively limited manager but he's the manager England has for now. He should have picked a squad he's comfortable with.
 
he’s basically seen what Bellingham has done for Madrid this season and is too scared not to play him anywhere else. If Madrid had Bellingham and Foden then Bellingham wouldn’t be playing so far up the field.

you have Rice, Bellingham and Foden to form a world class triangle in the middle with the potential for two good pacey wingers and he has fecked it all up because he had to do what Madrid does.

The knock on effect of it is Foden on the wing which doesn’t help Kane nor does it help the left with a makeshift Trippier out there and it renders the midfield impotent especially when he’s doubling up on his error by playing TAA there.

And the stupidist thing of all is he seemingly can’t see this himself, or just refuses to change things lest he admit he doesn’t know what he’s doing. It was all there to see in the first game and he rolled out the same team. Hilarious.
 
DJ_21 said:
Trent deserved to come off. I’d have brought on Mainoo though not Gallagher. Watkins made some decent runs and stretched their defence.
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I'd have put both on and taken off Bellingham as well, agree on Watkins but Eze was like a rabbit in headlights.

What was with that pitch though, it was dreadful
 
reddev3 said:
I was playing a back 4 with Palmer in instead of Trent as Doughty just bombs up and down the left side on his own all day long and walker can just sit back similar to how City play. Gvardiol was basically playing as a LW in the 2nd half of the season and walker has alway been more conservative as he's an insurance policy against any runners.

Either formation sorts one of if not the Major flaw though.
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I see, yeah I just liked 3 at the back because then Stones can step up into midfield to give more cover to Bellingham/Rice. And Trent at RWB is a lot better than in central midfield.

Saka/Foden would work as inside forwards slightly behind Kane with Arnold and Doughty providing width on each side.

But oh well the idiot manager only brought an injured left back and is playing 3 right backs in the team.
 
groovyalbert said:
Trent in midfield, Eze literally did nothing, Bowen tried his hardest to injury himself and Watkins was utterly ineffective after a decent burst.

I get we should demand more from the first XI and I'm not trying to defend them. It's genuinely unfair to throw all of the above plus the likes of Mainoo, Wharton, Toney, Gordon into the fray. They are all part time internationals at best. Nothing can replace experience in these moments unfortunately, and we have a squad largely purged of experience in depth presumably because Southgate was scared of the backlash had he opted for the likes of Radhford, Grealish, Sterling, Henderson, etc.

As a manager, you should be brave enough to back your players. I don't think this squad has the cohesion of past Southgate squads and that's a sign of poor selections.

Yes, Southgate is a massively limited manager but he's the manager England has for now. He should have picked a squad he's comfortable with.
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I don't think it's a lack of experience, but that there doesn't really seem to be any plan for the players he's putting out there. He's playing a back four and Rice, then just sending the other five out there to do what they like. The problem is, Kane, Foden, Saka and Bellingham all want to do pretty much the same thing, and TAA is out of position and not really doing much of anything.
 
Alex99 said:
I don't think it's a lack of experience, but that there doesn't really seem to be any plan for the players he's putting out there. He's playing a back four and Rice, then just sending the other five out there to do what they like. The problem is, Kane, Foden, Saka and Bellingham all want to do pretty much the same thing, and TAA is out of position and not really doing much of anything.
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Saka at least stayed wide and provided the width on the right, rather than congest the middle of the field.
 
SparcMac said:
Gareth Southgate: "Alexander-Arnold? He's had some moments where he's delivered what we thought he would. We know it's an experiment." "We know we don't have a natural replacement for Kalvin Philips. We're trying different things." (BBC) #EURO2024


Gareth are you okay?
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We have more than enough fecking international friendlies that interrupt the league season for experimentation.

Experiment with Trent in midfield against Australia or Vatican City or Lapland in November, not in the European Championships. Good lord man.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
Saka at least stayed wide and provided the width on the right, rather than congest the middle of the field.
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The Serbia game you could see swathes of open space on the right and the majority of the players were from the middle of the pitch to the left hand side. It was so frustrating to watch, especially when any threat was going to come down that right hand side.
 
I think England can start booking that return flight home. Can’t see this squad moving past the round of 16 unless they produce a Greece type miracle and lull everyone to sleep.
 
Alex99 said:
I don't think it's a lack of experience, but that there doesn't really seem to be any plan for the players he's putting out there. He's playing a back four and Rice, then just sending the other five out there to do what they like. The problem is, Kane, Foden, Saka and Bellingham all want to do pretty much the same thing, and TAA is out of position and not really doing much of anything.
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Perhaps, but there are a few names there you've mentioned who have never done it for England and are presumably being included due to potential/club form.

I think something that has surprised Southgate and England is the extent teams are going to accommodate England. It's the first time England under Southgate have been a tournament favourite and his limits are being exposed by having to think outside the box to account for different tactics and set ups.

The worst part so far is the general effort and energy. Both Denmark and Serbia got back into games by outworking and wanting it more than England, something historically you can't accuse a Southgate side of lacking.
 
FootballHQ said:
Let's be honest only a joke knock out run gets England to the final.

Too many holes all over the pitch and simply not enough time to fix it because Gareth would rather play Kalvin Phillips and Henderson against the likes of Italy as recently as October.
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Win the group and the route to the SFs is not too bad. It would be one of the third placed teams in the R16 (worst case scenario would be Belgium, though I don't think they will finish 3rd) and in the QF the 2nd placed team in group A and B (currently Switzerland and Italy). England were quite comfortable against Italy in the qualifiers, so it's not too bad of a draw if we finish top. It would then likely be France in the SF who would likely also have a nice path to the SF (Turkey R16 and possibly Belgium in the QF, if they top their group).

If France fail to top their group and it would likely be Netherlands, Belgium or a fairly surprising team in the SF for England.

It's the other half of the draw that looks more tricky. If England finish 2nd in the group, it would be Germany R16, Spain QF and probably Portugal in the SF to then face France in the final. I don't think England can win the tournament if they finish 2nd but if they top the group, they could have enough time to pick up form without being punished.
 
I really wanted Branthwaite to get called up but now I'm glad he's nowhere near this mess.
 
3-4-2-1 would be the best formation if Southgate wants Bellingham and Foden on the pitch.

Pickford - Walker, Stones, Guehi - Alexander-Arnold, Mainoo/Wharton, Rice, Trippier/Saka/Gordon - Bellingham, Foden - Kane

You would also control much more the midfield with possible five players (Stones could be the fifth player if he would play this role like at his club).
 
Tables will change but for context if groups remain as they are the draw for England would be:

R16: Czechia
QF: Switzerland or Italy
SF: Romania, Albania, Netherlands (expect France to top the group), Portugal (expect Portugal to top the group and it be Turkey)
 
Hot take maybe but I thought that Watkins looked more threatening than Kane when he came on. Certainly he’s a lot more mobile.
 
(a) Shaw will bring balance to the squad and end this Trent at CM experiment. Walker will get dropped when Shaw is back.
(b) They should've taken Rashford. Too many tippy tappy #10s and noone really to just get in behind and score. Atleast play Gordon in there to provide some of that.
(c) Southgate is an idiot
 
groovyalbert said:
Perhaps, but there are a few names there you've mentioned who have never done it for England and are presumably being included due to potential/club form.

I think something that has surprised Southgate and England is the extent teams are going to accommodate England. It's the first time England under Southgate have been a tournament favourite and his limits are being exposed by having to think outside the box to account for different tactics and set ups.

The worst part so far is the general effort and energy. Both Denmark and Serbia got back into games by outworking and wanting it more than England, something historically you can't accuse a Southgate side of lacking.
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I think he's been far too aware of the criticisms of his management going into this tournament.

He's been criticised for being too negative when he plays two holding midfielders, so now he's put Rice in there alone and decided he's going to experiment with TAA alongside him because he doesn't think the other options are right, for whatever reason.

He's been criticised for sticking by his "favourites" and ignoring club form, so he's left out Sterling, Henderson, Maguire, Rashford and Grealish, except now he's left with a bunch of players he doesn't really know or trust. This has then had the knock-on of him becoming even more reliant on the "favourites" he has brought along, and is why we're seeing him try and cram Kane, Foden and Bellingham into the same side with no thought to how they're going to play together.

He's overthought the squad selection and not thought enough about the tactics.
 
Mainoo, Wharton, Palmer, Gordon, Eze should all have been fully integrated into this squad and viable players not only as cover, but to offer something different to the first team. He's given Mainoo and Eze dirt minutes under dire circumstances, and the others haven't even had a sniff.

What's worse, with the absence of Rashford, Gordon is literally the next in line to do a somewhat similar job, so if he wasn't going to use him, why not just bring Rashford along?

You can't even trust him to do the right going into the third game. There's little chance he gives Gordon a shot; TAA has to be replaced, as even Southgate knows that's a bomb, but he'll put Gallegher in, which doesn't improve the football.

Just on and on; this guy is going to torpedo England and any chance they had.
 
Southgate’s record is pitiful, three years at Boro got them relegated. Then out of football for 4 years. Surprisingly, is then appointed England u21 coach, finishes bottom of group, and when Allardyce gets sacked after 1 game gets 'temporarily' put in charge of the England team and has been there ever since, How do those credentials qualify him as England manager? The FA hierarchy running this farce need sacking too.
 
stepic said:
he’s basically seen what Bellingham has done for Madrid this season and is too scared not to play him anywhere else. If Madrid had Bellingham and Foden then Bellingham wouldn’t be playing so far up the field.

you have Rice, Bellingham and Foden to form a world class triangle in the middle with the potential for two good pacey wingers and he has fecked it all up because he had to do what Madrid does.

The knock on effect of it is Foden on the wing which doesn’t help Kane nor does it help the left with a makeshift Trippier out there and it renders the midfield impotent especially when he’s doubling up on his error by playing TAA there.

And the stupidist thing of all is he seemingly can’t see this himself, or just refuses to change things lest he admit he doesn’t know what he’s doing. It was all there to see in the first game and he rolled out the same team. Hilarious.
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He's just shit, people are blinded by the team doing well, which is down to one of the best attacking squads ever, and think Southgate is helping towards that. He's not. His level is relegation with Middlesborough, as it always has been. He does stupid shit because he genuinely doesn't know what to do.

Play defensive against a shit Italy. Make god awful subs against France. He'll bow to the pressure and change the lineups eventually, with TAA binned and maybe Eze/Gordon on the left. But the minute we need some good subs, or some good tactical changes against a good side, we're out.

Grealish should've gone, not because of his form (which wasn't even bad), but because he's the most experienced LW and provides things that no one else does. Witdth, can keep possession, pick a pass, beat a man, and has always been good for England. What does Southgate do? Same shit he always does, stupid things.
 
Crazy how static everyone ahead of the ball seems to be when we have it in midfield. We're so slow to move it and predictable when we do. That's not even to mention how non-existent/disorganized our press was. Genuine shambles.
 
stepic said:
he’s basically seen what Bellingham has done for Madrid this season and is too scared not to play him anywhere else. If Madrid had Bellingham and Foden then Bellingham wouldn’t be playing so far up the field.

you have Rice, Bellingham and Foden to form a world class triangle in the middle with the potential for two good pacey wingers and he has fecked it all up because he had to do what Madrid does.

The knock on effect of it is Foden on the wing which doesn’t help Kane nor does it help the left with a makeshift Trippier out there and it renders the midfield impotent especially when he’s doubling up on his error by playing TAA there.

And the stupidist thing of all is he seemingly can’t see this himself, or just refuses to change things lest he admit he doesn’t know what he’s doing. It was all there to see in the first game and he rolled out the same team. Hilarious.
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Agree and disagree.

You just can’t go all in at this level without a solid couple of years of familiarity.

If he looked at the team holistically he wouldn’t be putting square pegs in round holes.

He could play Gordon left OR Bowen right and have a midfield three of Rice, Bellingham and Foden. That three, alongside Kane, with Gordon and/or Saka supporting would be so threatening.

Trust Bellingham and Foden to link with Kane. The two wingers become hard working additions. Not the creative option.

Trent in the middle and Foden wide is truly pathetic. Foden needs players around him to interplay with (he had a few moments). Trent is just not a midfielder. He’d be better off challenging Saka than competing for a starting midfield spot.
 
Fortitude said:
Mainoo, Wharton, Palmer, Gordon, Eze should all have been fully integrated into this squad and viable players not only as cover, but to offer something different to the first team. He's given Mainoo and Eze dirt minutes under dire circumstances, and the others haven't even had a sniff.

What's worse, with the absence of Rashford, Gordon is literally the next in line to do a somewhat similar job, so if he wasn't going to use him, why not just bring Rashford along?

You can't even trust him to do the right going into the third game. There's little chance he gives Gordon a shot; TAA has to be replaced, as even Southgate knows that's a bomb, but he'll put Gallegher in, which doesn't improve the football.

Just on and on; this guy is going to torpedo England and any chance they had.
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We’re back to the days of shoehorning ‘names’ onto the teamsheet over what makes a functional team. Play rice 6, bellingham 8, foden 10 and gordon left. Instead, we feck the whole team to play a right back at cdm because its felt he’s too big a name to leave out
 
Cloud7 said:
Hot take maybe but I thought that Watkins looked more threatening than Kane when he came on. Certainly he’s a lot more mobile.
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Kane is in his Alexis Sanches/Rooney decline phase, I knew it was coming because Mourinho, Conte and Southgate together combined to never rest him. Tuchel the bin man has continued that trend. His legs are going.
 
Jezpeza said:
We’re back to the days of shoehorning ‘names’ onto the teamsheet over what makes a functional team. Play rice 6, bellingham 8, foden 10 and gordon left. Instead, we feck the whole team to play a right back at cdm because its felt he’s too big a name to leave out
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Everyone keeps talking about the players you have mentioned in this roles, I just don’t think it works personally.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Fecking hell I can’t believe I’m going to defend Southgate. But the quote is a little misleading. He said

Everyone keeps talking about the players you have mentioned in this roles, I just don’t think it works personally.
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Sorry, Southgate is a tactical genius. Playing multiple players out of position is just a prelude to some huge ploy that will see us win the tournament
 
marktan said:
Kane is in his Alexis Sanches/Rooney decline phase, I knew it was coming because Mourinho, Conte and Southgate together combined to never rest him. Tuchel the bin man has continued that trend. His legs are going.
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Ha, I'd totally forgotten that mourinho once managed spurs.
 
saivet said:
Tables will change but for context if groups remain as they are the draw for England would be:

R16: Czechia
QF: Switzerland or Italy
SF: Romania, Albania, Netherlands (expect France to top the group), Portugal (expect Portugal to top the group and it be Turkey)
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Well that's another very easy route to the last four or the final if that happens. There's a lot of doom and gloom around this England team's performances but it's had great luck in the past at reaching far in competitions before getting beat by a strong team. If they avoid Germany, Portugal, Spain or France on the route to the final they could very well make it playing shite football and relying on an individual to win it for them.

Edit- Just realized Belgium are on that side of the draw and that would be an interesting game for England as they're more likely to make it through their group despite the early defeat.
 
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