England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion

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Yagami said:
I always say that Southgate did well until the Euro 2020/1 final. The 2018 World Cup was a breath of fresh air, and the lead up to the Euros final against Italy was the same. The problem was he cost us the final the same way he cost us against Croatia, which we were lenient with him on because we thought he'd learn, but he didn't. He's been horrible ever since.
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You have this belief that just doesn't take reality into account, that England was pinned back by Croatia and Italy by choice, instead of simply not being able to avoid it. In both england dropped back because their high press was getting beaten, they didn't just drop back on their own. And of course there's Qatar, were whatever mistakes you ascribe him, were certainly of a different variety, given England played much more expansive and attacking game in that WC.

This, beyond the "manager who got everything right, gets a couple things wrong in a FINAL, obviously it's all his fault that we didn't win!"
The final in question which you lost against an equal, on penalties, btw

even though it's clear that not only do his mistakes cost us
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You will never have a manager who doesn't make mistakes. Deschamps makes mistakes, Scaloni makes mistakes(he made mistakes in a WC final! They won the shootout), Alf Ramsey made mistakes. Guardiola rather famously makes miatakes. It will happen, doesn't matter who the manager is. Teams win all the time thanks in part to their manager's good work and despite their mistakes

Cost us against Croatia, cost us against Italy
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Against Crotia, I'm not sure he even had the players to try and change the dynamic of the game in the second half. I'll give you Italy, made moves a bit late and of a type that didn't change anything, while ignoring the player that most of all gave England a chance to break up Italy's pressure until after the goal(at which point he became sort or pointless). And the Rashford/Sancho subs were, uh, questionable to say the least. You still lost a shootout, against an in form side fielding way better defenders ans midfielders than you, plus the best GK in the competition. It's ridiculous to blame the manager alone for this. I often heard mention of England scoring early which conveniently ignores the fact a big reason for that early goal was Southgate's choice of lineup and structure to start the game.

almost cost us against Slovakia and almost against Switzerland in extra time. Except that time we weren't even ahead unlike the others.
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Except this tournanent is nothing like the previous ones. Evidenced by the fact that you used to smash the likes of Slovakia or Switzerland, and here you should have lost to both

Then there's the refusal to deviate away from his favourites and reward the backups who are outperforming them. We saw that with Rashford and now Palmer.
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Fair enough

You just refuse to accept that they're problems. You're only noticing there's a problem now because you didn't realise how much Maguire (on set pieces) and Sterling (in general play) bailed him out. Aside from missing two of our best performers in recent years, there's nothing different.
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Every team has problems, every manager has specific hang ups, teams win by getting over them. You keep screaming about Rashford's sub vs France - A game in which England missed a penalty to send it to extra time!!!!. That's Rashford on fresh legs running at tired defence for 30 minutes!. Not subbing him earlier clearly wasn't the reason you lost, missing the penalty was! We *just* saw Spain's manager do a "Southgate" and...Spain won anyways, despite that!

You are simultaneously underestimating how difficult it is to win these tournaments, underestimating the role of the manager over the entire run from qualifiers into the tournament proper, and overestimating the importance of single game decisions. It's not that the latter don't matter, they do. You hope they won't be game killers - and whatever you believe, obviously Southgate's mistakes were not of this type - and that the team will overcome them. Every tournament winner ever - bar the best Brazil's - did. You want to win a tournament? At some point you are gonna have to win a game despite the manager. If you need the manager to be get everything right all the time to win, you will never win

No offence but the only "delusional bullshit" I see is you thinking Southgate won't play Shaw because his Ouija board tells him not to or something :lol: Shaw is in the favourite category. If fit, he will play. The only way he doesn't start is if he's not fit enough to play, at the very least, a full 90. I find it surprising that you'll be critical of Southgate over this, but didn't bat an eyelid when he brought Sterling on over Rashford against France despite the fact that Sterling had just had to fly back home to deal with a family emergency, so he was in no way prepared to play in such a game. Never mind the fact that Rashford was outperforming him the whole tournament on top of that.
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I was obviously joking about Shaw. I do expect he'll start if fit, it's an obvious choice. As for Sterling, nah, that was a mistake, yeah, of course it was. Not so much sending on Sterling - a mistake, yeah, but also one I feel 99% of managers would have made in those circumstances - as taking off Saka

Rashford's a different matter. Nevermind that Foden had his best gamr for England, at that point, chasing the game with 10 minutes left, that was the obvious sub to make. And if Harry "trophyless with Bayern Munich" Kane scores that freaking penalty, it doesn't matter
 
The Purley King said:
Agreed.
Maybe some of the German posters here can explain how this version of Kane scored 30+ goals last season. Guy can barely move.
He’ll start the semi final for sure just hope Southgate has the stones to hook him after 60 minutes (but he won’t)
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Playing for a the team that creates the most chances in Europe helps a lot. Playing for a static, defensive and coward England doesn't.
 
The Purley King said:
Agreed.
Maybe some of the German posters here can explain how this version of Kane scored 30+ goals last season. Guy can barely move.
He’ll start the semi final for sure just hope Southgate has the stones to hook him after 60 minutes (but he won’t)
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As a Spurs fan the discussions about Kane are eerily familiar. The guy can't move much anymore, since his ankle issues he switched his game up entirely to become almost entirely immobile. Since then he rarely gets injuries but he is also incredibly static. He scores goals because at Spurs and Bayern he had players who move around him and make runs - aka Son, Sane, Musiala etc. If you get it to him in the box he's the most lethal player on the planet, two footed and clinical and also deadly on the edge of the box.

Lots of times we had periods where fans wondered if he was injured, but its just Kane. This England team is horrendous for him. Nobody runs in behind, players like Foden and Bellingham drop in to the space where he likes to due his insane passing range, and even if he gets in to those spaces nobody is there for him to find. So you're essentially just spending 90-120 mins waiting for once chance to fall for him in the box. Its happened three times so far this tournament and he's scored 2/3 of them and hit the bar with the other.

This team would drag any striker who isn't a Drogba type in to the mud. So isolated with no runners, the only job is to try and win duels and hold it up, and when Kane is up against 3 massive centre backs he isn't doing shit. He can't/won't press either but that's been him for years ....
 
Carolina Red said:
I’ve never understood it either
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He's one of the best passers in world football. He wants to drop deep because he enjoys getting on the ball and using said passing range, he did it for years at Spurs. Of course he's probably trying to stay higher up as this suits the team more and is likely his instructions, but in games like this natural instincts will take over and he will obviously be getting frustrated at being so isolated. When he does stay up the pitch fans complain that he's invisible because England simply don't work the ball to the striker at all.

The way he plays makes total sense when you consider what he's very good at. It just doesn't make sense for an England team who already have two tens and nobody who makes runs in behind.
 
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MrVolante said:
As a Spurs fan the discussions about Kane are eerily familiar. The guy can't move much anymore, since his ankle issues he switched his game up entirely to become almost entirely immobile. Since then he rarely gets injuries but he is also incredibly static. He scores goals because at Spurs and Bayern he had players who move around him and make runs - aka Son, Sane, Musiala etc. If you get it to him in the box he's the most lethal player on the planet, two footed and clinical and also deadly on the edge of the box.

Lots of times we had periods where fans wondered if he was injured, but its just Kane. This England team is horrendous for him. Nobody runs in behind, players like Foden and Bellingham drop in to the space where he likes to due his insane passing range, and even if he gets in to those spaces nobody is there for him to find. So you're essentially just spending 90-120 mins waiting for once chance to fall for him in the box. Its happened three times so far this tournament and he's scored 2/3 of them and hit the bar with the other.

This team would drag any striker who isn't a Drogba type in to the mud. So isolated with no runners, the only job is to try and win duels and hold it up, and when Kane is up against 3 massive centre backs he isn't doing shit. He can't/won't press either but that's been him for years ....
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Thanks appreciate the reply.
Southgate seems married to foden and Bellingham (I agree Bellingham should play).
He seems to dislike Gordon who is one player that will run in behind.
Eze doesn’t seem the type of player to make those runs either and he’s had a few minutes here and there as well.
I think we’d be far more effective with a centre forward that can run, so personally I’d put Watkins in for the next game.
If that does happen I’ll buy a hat and eat it.
 
MrVolante said:
As a Spurs fan the discussions about Kane are eerily familiar. The guy can't move much anymore, since his ankle issues he switched his game up entirely to become almost entirely immobile. Since then he rarely gets injuries but he is also incredibly static. He scores goals because at Spurs and Bayern he had players who move around him and make runs - aka Son, Sane, Musiala etc. If you get it to him in the box he's the most lethal player on the planet, two footed and clinical and also deadly on the edge of the box.

Lots of times we had periods where fans wondered if he was injured, but its just Kane. This England team is horrendous for him. Nobody runs in behind, players like Foden and Bellingham drop in to the space where he likes to due his insane passing range, and even if he gets in to those spaces nobody is there for him to find. So you're essentially just spending 90-120 mins waiting for once chance to fall for him in the box. Its happened three times so far this tournament and he's scored 2/3 of them and hit the bar with the other.

This team would drag any striker who isn't a Drogba type in to the mud. So isolated with no runners, the only job is to try and win duels and hold it up, and when Kane is up against 3 massive centre backs he isn't doing shit. He can't/won't press either but that's been him for years ....
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How can that one chance fall to you if you are deep in midfield and not in the box?
 
MrVolante said:
The way he plays makes total sense when you consider what he's very good at. It just doesn't make sense for an England team who already have two tens and nobody who makes runs in behind.
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Well, what he’s doing in the England squad is what I thought we were talking about. He seems to always be somewhere else when England actually need him in the box.
 
Saw this on twitter -Man City’s Punishment should be Southgate managing them for 5 years.

No way they make top 4 with him in charge.
 
glazed said:
We dodged a bullet not buying Kane.
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Yeah ten Hag wanted him last summer.

Physically it looks like he may be on the decline..

I would've loved him back in 2016 or 2017 instead of fannying about with Ibrahimovic, Lukaku then Sanchez.

Still a brilliant goalscorer though hope he sticks in a few in the next (hopefully) couple of games..
 
DixieDean said:
Saw this on twitter -Man City’s Punishment should be Southgate managing them for 5 years.

No way they make top 4 with him in charge.
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Not true. They'd win the title because they have Kalvin Phillips who he struggles without.
 
GueRed said:
Yeah ten Hag wanted him last summer.

Physically it looks like he may be on the decline..

I would've loved him back in 2016 or 2017 instead of fannying about with Ibrahimovic, Lukaku then Sanchez.

Still a brilliant goalscorer though hope he sticks in a few in the next (hopefully) couple of games..
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I’m sure that this has been said at every major tournament since 2018. The reality is that you’d need prime Pele or R9 upfront to look good in this England team.

Kane has always needed runners around him and Southgate has decided to play this tournament with only Saka who kind of matches that profile and even he quite likes to also come short. That said, I do think Kane has looked a bit off this tournament but i wouldn’t read anything into it long term. He had a few niggles at the end of the season and I suspect it’s more those aren’t completely resolved rather than a permanent decline.
 
Doracle said:
I’m sure that this has been said at every major tournament since 2018. The reality is that you’d need prime Pele or R9 upfront to look good in this England team.
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I dunno the England team v Switzerland once Shaw came on looked pretty decent. Gordon for Foden and anyone for Kane and they would prob beat Netherlands comfortably.
 
Kane just looks completely gassed after about 45 mins. I really think these 11 month seasons are really starting to take a toll on players, and possibly also the cause of so many injuries. The powers that be are trying to pack in too much football, next year will be the same and 2026 is WC. Most clubs are back for pre-season now but the players at the Euros will get about 3 weeks off from Monday and expected to be fit and raring to go on their return. The Community Shield is 4 weeks after the Euros Final, so Euros players will miss all pre-season and the chance to gel with new team mates
 
George The Best said:
Kane just looks completely gassed after about 45 mins. I really think these 11 month seasons are really starting to take a toll on players, and possibly also the cause of so many injuries. The powers that be are trying to pack in too much football, next year will be the same and 2026 is WC. Most clubs are back for pre-season now but the players at the Euros will get about 3 weeks off from Monday and expected to be fit and raring to go on their return. The Community Shield is 4 weeks after the Euros Final, so Euros players will miss all pre-season and the chance to gel with new team mates
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There are all sorts of answers for this, for English teams : why are there TWO league cup tournaments in addition to a packed schedule?

And the number of games aside… that’s why you have a FULL squad. A team like England shouldn’t have to start Jane every group stage match, in particular.

We are worried about players getting worn down, and Gordon and Watkins have gotten 20 minutes of play between them maybe?

And Kane … if he didn’t feel the need to run 40 extra yards back to his own box every turn of possession he would:

1. maybe actually be effective.
2. Not look like a lumbering zombie
 
Bluelion7 said:
There are all sorts of answers for this, for English teams : why are there TWO league cup tournaments in addition to a packed schedule?

And the number of games aside… that’s why you have a FULL squad. A team like England shouldn’t have to start Jane every group stage match, in particular.

We are worried about players getting worn down, and Gordon and Watkins have gotten 20 minutes of play between them maybe?

And Kane … if he didn’t feel the need to run 40 extra yards back to his own box every turn of possession he would:

1. maybe actually be effective.
2. Not look like a lumbering zombie
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All fair points. I've always thought that Man Utd and LIverpool had the right idea a few years ago. Get rid of the shitty league cup. It's crap and a waste of time. And reduce the PL to 18 teams. Then give the players two weeks off after boxing day games.
 
George The Best said:
Kane just looks completely gassed after about 45 mins. I really think these 11 month seasons are really starting to take a toll on players, and possibly also the cause of so many injuries. The powers that be are trying to pack in too much football, next year will be the same and 2026 is WC. Most clubs are back for pre-season now but the players at the Euros will get about 3 weeks off from Monday and expected to be fit and raring to go on their return. The Community Shield is 4 weeks after the Euros Final, so Euros players will miss all pre-season and the chance to gel with new team mates
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I think Kane has an injury that he's managing but Southgate is overusing him by far. He's barely had any rest through the tournament and with two excellent strikers as backup when Kane isn't performing, it's mismanagement to have not rested him more.
 
George The Best said:
Kane just looks completely gassed after about 45 mins. I really think these 11 month seasons are really starting to take a toll on players, and possibly also the cause of so many injuries. The powers that be are trying to pack in too much football, next year will be the same and 2026 is WC. Most clubs are back for pre-season now but the players at the Euros will get about 3 weeks off from Monday and expected to be fit and raring to go on their return. The Community Shield is 4 weeks after the Euros Final, so Euros players will miss all pre-season and the chance to gel with new team mates
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Kane has always been like this for a while now. Poor workout but lethal in front of goal.

Everyone says Spurs was going to struggle without Kane but they went from 8th to 5th last season.
 
On the point re Kane, I understand the importance of reputations in naming a starting XI but Southgate would have been wise to manage Kane’s minutes with more focus. As it is now, Harry is worn down to the bone and has become useless and arguably a hindrance.
 
Kanaldo will definitely start. And the pundits have definitely been ordered to be more positive about England, even on Lineker's podcast they were banging on about England being so much better and that line up looking great.

Southgate during the interview aired at half time tonight once again went on about the "challenges" and outside pressures. Just so gutless.

I do think we'll get past Holland though, they are perhaps the only "top" (using that term loosely of late) team we don't seem to bottle it against. Another boring, narrow result followed by Spain comfortably beating us by 1 goal in the final.
 
Kane should be an impact sub. He’d be more effective against tired legs at this stage of his career. The Kanaldo name is perfect really, being England’s all time top scorer, and the star player from years gone by. But then you look at Spain, and the pace and energy they have up front, and it’s clear to see where things break down for England.
 
DixieDean said:
Well, If england lose it will make the pain less, because there is no chance in hell that we can beat spain. Forget it.
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Call me silly but I fancy England to give Spain a run for their money if they beat Holland tomorrow -- much more so than if the Dutch who go through.
 
England will have to find another gear to beat the Netherlands. Can they? Yes. Will they? I’m not so sure. The tumescent play is baked in pretty hard. But we shall see.
 
So tonight we see if Southgate has the stones to make the changes needed to win against Netherlands. The Dutch will run at us in waves and it will be the first real test of our defence and we will see if Walker and Stones are upto the task. I think it could be a more open game but it may just be a tense stand-off of two average teams unless England can utilise Bellingham effectively and put in a player more effective than Foden on the left.

IF England get past the Netherlands I can see them winning a game of attrition against Spain. If Shaw can play a full game he can ensure Lamal doesn't cut inside to shoot. Walker is one of the few defenders that can keep pace with Wlliams, Someone just needs to stay close to Olmo and I think you can neutralise the Spanish attack, particularly if Morata isn't running around up front.

It will be vital to not give Spain an early goal, because if England do get breached they won't see the ball for most of the remainder of the game. Spain have phenomenal control of the ball and will just pass it around for 70 minutes if they need to.

Occasionally Spain over-committed in attacking situations last night so there will be the opportunity to score fast counter-attacking goals if we have the right personnel on the pitch. However I don't have any confidence that Southgate will make the necessary changes to the starting line-up to exploit this. He'll go with the same players...it will be tense until Spain get a goal and then he'll throw on some faster players but will again sacrifice his most effective ball controller in Mainoo to do it and we will then just be chasing Spain around the pitch.
 
England do have players in the squad that could actually cause spain problems on the counter, the problem is Southgate wont play them and will stick to his usual team which will end up getting destroyed.
 
giorno said:
Is it? Spain have looked beatable in the last 2 games, and the way they want to play would allow England to play in transition
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Southgate is going into such a game with 5-4-1 or 4-5-1 with Kane isolated and the rest of the team hanging on for dear life because he’s made them fearful. There’ll be nobody out there but Saka as an outlet ball, further exacerbating the problem of the ball being won quite easily and recycled back up the pitch.

Spain would love an open game or game of counter-counter because they are better at both winning the ball back and quickly hitting in transition. Southgate won’t want any part of that. He’ll be playing for set piece opportunities or aiming for pens from the outset, imo.

And heaven help him if Spain score early.
 
Fortitude said:
Southgate is going into such a game with 5-4-1 or 4-5-1 with Kane isolated and the rest of the team hanging on for dear life because he’s made them fearful. There’ll be nobody out there but Saka as an outlet ball, further exacerbating the problem of the ball being won quite easily and recycled back up the pitch.

Spain would love an open game or game of counter-counter because they are better at both winning the ball back and quickly hitting in transition. Southgate won’t want any part of that. He’ll be playing for set piece opportunities or aiming for pens from the outset, imo.

And heaven help him if Spain score early.
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Maybe, I still think you have a better chance pulling off the defence & set pieces for the win against Spain than whatever you might have had to try vs France. At least here you have a clear advantage - size and physicality - and one Spain have already proven they massively struggle with, vs Germany. Also, the simplest and more obvious the game plan, the better the chances Southgate doesn't feck up
 
giorno said:
Is it? Spain have looked beatable in the last 2 games, and the way they want to play would allow England to play in transition
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Your wingbacks are defensively lacking but Southgate wouldn't dare exploit it by playing a proper LW or allowing Kyle Walker to regularly overload down the right. Also, Kane will barely be found in the penalty box as he's too busy playing deep and then huffing and puffing up the pitch as Saka floats one in.
 
giorno said:
Maybe, I still think you have a better chance pulling off the defence & set pieces for the win against Spain than whatever you might have had to try vs France. At least here you have a clear advantage - size and physicality - and one Spain have already proven they massively struggle with, vs Germany. Also, the simplest and more obvious the game plan, the better the chances Southgate doesn't feck up
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Well, if England get through my first thought is: ‘please avoid a pasting’ after that, it’s a question of how into the game can the team get without conceding because where I do believe England have the advantage is if the game is equal going into deep waters. A tired Spain, England can cope with and even get the better of, imo.
 
Leaked news that Trippier has kept his place. Shaw makes our side so much better.
 
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