Superb post,absolutely nailed it
England Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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Superb post,absolutely nailed it
Yeah. Just like those armchair "football analyst" with a 100th time rewind and have 10 hours to think about it, then saying "Look, if only in split second, X could think as good as me. This X should pass it to Y who was standing behind 3 defenders. And look at these screenshots and arrows I made to prove it!!"
That's football for you. Kane scores the 2nd penalty and its a different ball game. Saying that this was a good chance and its silly to claim England bottled it. In any case that bottle word is thrown around too much.
Did England have good chances in open play?
Anyway seems so every time England plays a solid opposition it doesnt go their way.
Did England have good chances in open play?
Anyway seems so every time England plays a solid opposition it doesnt go their way.
Why is that Italy side constantly called a poor one?
It wasnt a poor side by any means. The fact they didnt qualify to the world cup doesnt change that too.
Southgate needs to go.
But the bigger problem is the clueless old man's club at the FA picking only yes men.
But the bigger problem is the clueless old man's club at the FA picking only yes men.
Yep. It's a funny rewriting of history, because plenty on here wanted us to hire Mancini and buy half their players once the tournament was over. Yet poor side, yep.
Yes yes. I agree.
Turns out I was a bit more emotionally invested than I thought (Live in England, born in Wales, grew up in Nigeria).
That Kane miss still lingers - unfortunately for him, it will probably follow him as a (maybe the) major career milestone
That Kane miss still lingers - unfortunately for him, it will probably follow him as a (maybe the) major career milestone
The bigger problem is the clueless fan base and its relentless and unreasoning hostility.
They were a really good side and the best team in the tournament. Cohesive with a clear strategy that made them more than the sum of their parts. They looked comfortably better than any team at the previous Euros as well to be honest.
It's the England factor.
You have the same people who argued France would turn us over and we're not as good as we think we are, now arguing that not beating France represents some kind of embarrassing failure.
Same in Euro 2020.
To the ridiculous, I guess you can call them ABE's England are a terrible side that under performs unless it wins every football match and major competition it plays in.
You have the same people who argued France would turn us over and we're not as good as we think we are, now arguing that not beating France represents some kind of embarrassing failure.
Same in Euro 2020.
To the ridiculous, I guess you can call them ABE's England are a terrible side that under performs unless it wins every football match and major competition it plays in.
100%.All the best teams don’t qualify. Like San Marino, Faroe isles, Luxembourg. It’s just obvious.
Well those qualify really rarely, if ever.
Why oh why did Kane go for a high down the middle penalty..
No way England bottled it. If England had lost to the USA they would have bottled it because it would have been similar style teams where England has the superior squad and is expected to win.
France and Brazil have the best squads in the world bar none. Someone like Marcus Thuram who has played 40 minutes in this World Cup would be a starter for most Nations on earth. And he only got in the 26 men squad because of injuries.
Exactly.
England has a good team, really good team and Southgate has taken them as far as he can. Time to move on to another manager who can maybe take the most out of the squad for the Euros.
I'm just shocked he hasn't been sacked/resigned yet.
We consistently reward mediocrity.
There are world class managers who are now available. Yet we choose to stick with a championship level one.
Is the England manager must be English still a thing in FA?
Southgate made a mistake with subs - let it go on too long and then made changes too late as Rio says and Rio usually gets it right. However, even had he done the intelligent substitutions at the right time there is no guarantee England would have won.
This England team is very talented and very united. Southgate deserves credit for the unity as well as the players. Is this team better than France? I really don`t think so given the way in which France can play in more or less second gear and still win knockout games such as this quarter final. As espn writer Mark Ogden noted, England are too predictable and as a number of us have said in caf forums, England lack a truly creative player who can be the kind of play maker needed to win trophies at international level.
Scholesy was that kind of player but never utilied properly in his England days. I disagree with the understandable lamenting going on in the media about missed penalty and red card calls. The `red card` was correctly a yellow as an English ref noted and there are always moments for both sides in a game where penalty appeals are dismissed. England had two penalties given - not putting the second one away threw away the momentum.
This England team is very talented and very united. Southgate deserves credit for the unity as well as the players. Is this team better than France? I really don`t think so given the way in which France can play in more or less second gear and still win knockout games such as this quarter final. As espn writer Mark Ogden noted, England are too predictable and as a number of us have said in caf forums, England lack a truly creative player who can be the kind of play maker needed to win trophies at international level.
Scholesy was that kind of player but never utilied properly in his England days. I disagree with the understandable lamenting going on in the media about missed penalty and red card calls. The `red card` was correctly a yellow as an English ref noted and there are always moments for both sides in a game where penalty appeals are dismissed. England had two penalties given - not putting the second one away threw away the momentum.
I wouldnt be surprised we are leaning towards such a prehistoric way of selecting managers.
But we've hired plenty of foreign managers in the past.
Or blind support who can't see problems with the setup... "and we all shout Ingerrrland". Am I doing it right?
Or blind support who can't see problems with the setup... "and we all shout Ingerrrland". Am I doing it right?
No. Unless what you're trying to do is to glibly avoid the point.
Pragmatically, foreign coaches tend to not do so well in tournaments, that goes across all nations. I can't remember the location of the article I read about it, but it was recent, I will try and dig it out.
What point?
Or blind support who can't see problems with the setup... "and we all shout Ingerrrland". Am I doing it right?
What are the problems with the setup? Besides clueless manager, old boys club etc etc?
Your point seemed to be blaming fan criticism as the cause of England's problems? If that's your conclusion you have missed the real problems. Which start at the FA's underperformance for decades. Then bring us to their latest underperformer, Southgate, who at best is a Championship or bottom 4 club Premiership quality manager.
I saw somoene else say it, but it's insane that england never beat the team better than them at knockout tourneys. You would think over the decades it would have happened once or twice. Even by fluke. But no.
The main problem with Southgates setup are his poor in game management. His lack of plan B. Playing almost the same starting 11 against Wales/Iran as he does against France. Not exploiting the counter attacking players like Rashford against France. Playing Foden out of position so he can accommodate his favourites.
So, you could say England=Tottenham?
What's the problem with playing the same starting lineup? Should we be changing the team every game?
So when you say problems with the setup, you basically mean Southgate didn't bring on X player at X minute of the game?
Personally, I saw the squad and thought that England might go out in the group stage if things went really badly.
That team isn't good enough to win anything, and the way Southgate has them playing means they won't implode like former teams, but they also won't beat a team that is more savvy than they are. The game against France was crying out for a bit of individual quality, a Lampard or Gerrard 30 yarder, a Beckham free kick, something only a player with freedom and confidence can do.
He played two wingers who were too scared or couldn't beat their man so they had to play the ball inside every time they got it, which is exactly what France wanted because that's where they aimed to win the ball and break. Saka tried a few times and every time he did the left back either fouled him or got skinned, they even doubled up on him in the second half to try and stop it from happening and yet for some reason he kept choosing to pass square to Henderson more often than not.
England reaching a quarter final and being knocked out by the first good team they face (current WC holders) is about where they're at with the players and coach they have available to them. No shame in it but people always over react when they see that the next game after France was an 'easy' one against Morocco and then potentially and 'easy' final against Croatia or really, anything goes in the final anyway, it's anyones on the day.
Saka was a bit hampered not having an overlapping Kyle walker who was playing cautious because of mbappe on the counter.
A well organised team should be more than the sum of its parts. I can't say England have ever looked like that in my lifetime. Some teams can clearly perform better than their talent pool suggests, but it's rare that the biggger international teams show this. I think there is a complacancy at international level when it comes to managers, across most of the top teams. They have top 4 PL standard players, yet give anyone the manager's job. The problem is that one of these sub-standard managers will usually still lift the trophy, so it just becomes accepted that having a very average national manager is fine. Southgate could have won the Euros and I would still not rate him very highly. Honestly, I think any of the top teams, combined with a top manager, would dominate the international scene for years.
And quite rightly.
100%.
Like Enrique and hansi flick?
I am slightly baffled after listening to fans on the phone-ins are of the opinion that the world's best managers will be falling over themselves to take the England job. Tuchel has supposedly been linked. Maybe it would work as being an international manager people won't be in his company for too long, as it always appears he manages to p*** untold people off. I cannot come up with a great option. Someone mentioned Jose, god almighty. Pep? What about Pep? Pep wouldn't go near the England job. Was listening to them speaking to a French Journalist and the impression over there is that the England Job is one of the worst in football.
Different opposition require different setups and different starting line ups, yes. It's not the 80s were you play the same team every game and 442.
I'm really struggling with one thing.
I'm seeing Ben White's name plastered all over Twitter as the Harry Maguire replacement, moving Stones to the left-side of defence.
Now I'm no Albert Einstein, but hasn't Ben White's form gone up a few notches this season compared to a distinctly average one last year...and this is after he was displaced by Saliba and shoehorned in at RB? The position he's playing in today was never going to happen, and as a famous scouser once said, you only play there if you fail as a winger or a CB.
I'm all for seeing the team get better, but you're crackers if you think Ben White is going to change England conceding cheap goals. Giroud would've had him for Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner.
Note: this comes from an absolute anti-Maguire supporter.
I'm seeing Ben White's name plastered all over Twitter as the Harry Maguire replacement, moving Stones to the left-side of defence.
Now I'm no Albert Einstein, but hasn't Ben White's form gone up a few notches this season compared to a distinctly average one last year...and this is after he was displaced by Saliba and shoehorned in at RB? The position he's playing in today was never going to happen, and as a famous scouser once said, you only play there if you fail as a winger or a CB.
I'm all for seeing the team get better, but you're crackers if you think Ben White is going to change England conceding cheap goals. Giroud would've had him for Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner.
Note: this comes from an absolute anti-Maguire supporter.
And yet most modern successful teams are based on familiar setups, familiar game plans, and familiar starting XIs. It's just the usual kind of baseless comment thrown about by armchair managers. Changing his setup from what worked so well against Wales would have been idiotic against France and he would have been crucified by the press. Most in here were already pre-criticising him before the game expecting him to revert away from the 4-3-3 formation.