yeah right, thanks for clarification. Don’t think his post is true anyway.
England Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
yeah right, thanks for clarification. Don’t think his post is true anyway.
I'm feeling it as well.
It's often said humour is the best medicine, so here's another one...
"Flights to England are currently delayed at Doha Airport, as fans wait for Harry Kane's football to clear the airspace"
It's more long term, since 1966. Other countries like Italy, Germany France Spain have won trophies in recent decades but England haven't, we keep coming up short in tournaments. Our first final in about 55 years for Euro 2020, at home in Wembley against an average Italy side that collapses and doesn't qualify for the World Cup shortly after, we still can't win.
I'm feeling it as well.
It's often said humour is the best medicine, so here's another one...
"Flights to England are currently delayed at Doha Airport, as fans wait for Harry Kane's football to clear the airspace"
Can't laugh at all,keep trying to lift my mood because that isn't going to work
I get where youre coming from, but it seems a very negative approach. Its like saying Germany are bottlers because they lost half of their finals. You can always find something very negative.
England might have underachieved given their league, history and talent, but bottlers seems too harsh, no? Now that I think about it, if I were english, I‘d call them the same. But from an outsiders Perspektive, not so much.
But what did France create as a result of this tactical decision? The two goals came from a long range worldie and England's CBs forgetting to mark Frances main aerial threat.
They lost because Southgate isn't proactive and chose to wait until France scored their second to make his changes and what subs he brought on! There was no better chance to beat France, who, remember, have 5 starters injured, and it's gone. Bad game management has been a constant pattern with Southgate and why England are always losing when it comes to fine margins. He never takes the game by the scruff of the neck and that's what you need to win a trophy.
He built a great team but never got the best out of it.
I'm feeling it as well.
It's often said humour is the best medicine, so here's another one...
"Flights to England are currently delayed at Doha Airport, as fans wait for Harry Kane's football to clear the airspace"
It is pretty bad when you look up at the night sky in Qatar last night during the game and you think you see the moon, but then you realise its Kanes second penalty.
We're talking about former world champions. Though a couple on that list won the tournament in question.
We lost to a better team yesterday. Not massively better but better. The rest is just English moaning.
England were pretty decent last night, but I feel their lack of pace and creativity up top really sets them back. France were really struggling with Saka's pace, and I think if introduced earlier, Rashford could have caused problems. France seemed content to let England have the ball as their midfield has zero creativity, and barring Saka, the front 3 were all pretty stale.
Had England won, it would have been a fair enough result, and the ref had a shocker. I still feel Southgate and one or two players are holding back a pretty decent side. It's not an amazing side by any stretch, but they have some good young talent.
Had England won, it would have been a fair enough result, and the ref had a shocker. I still feel Southgate and one or two players are holding back a pretty decent side. It's not an amazing side by any stretch, but they have some good young talent.
Not sure if England win anything this way. We cannot control big matches against v good opposition. We don't even play that way. We rely on sparks of inspiration (Bellingham, Rashford, Foden, Saka etc...). We need ball players. France's midfield has two ball players and one defensive midfielder. We often play Declan Rice alongside Kalvin Phillips or Jordan Henderson. Why? It sets a negative tone to our football, and this happened, again yesterday. Griezman ran the show yesterday for the first half, and after that we were 'trying to get back into the game...'
We need to be more confident, start with confidence, not always 'grow into a game.. and grow in confidence..'. Southgate is a man of caution, and this reflects in how this team plays. Bellingham is so important, because he plays like he does not play for Gareth Southgate... how many times did he get forward yesterday, beyond their back-line (who were pretty nervous btw...)? Not at all, and then you ask why play two defensive midfielders?
Beating Senegal (without Sadio Mane), a v poor Iran performance, and a pathetic Wales team does not add up to much. I expect our sqaud to beat those teams, comfortably. Remember we couldn't beat a hard-working, organised USA.
And this is Southgate: decent man, but limited in ambition and without that edge, personality, that raw, sometimes beligerent instinct (think SAF, Mourinho, Pep, Klopp, Conte, Lippi...) that something that recognises when things do not quite fit for purpose and needs to change. Foden was ineffective for example yesterday, not his fault, but this can happen against better teams, good quality, experienced players and managers. He should be our Griezmann.
England may be better in two years, but do you really think Spain, Germany, Italy*, even Denmark etc, will be as poor as they were during this World Cup?
We need to be more confident, start with confidence, not always 'grow into a game.. and grow in confidence..'. Southgate is a man of caution, and this reflects in how this team plays. Bellingham is so important, because he plays like he does not play for Gareth Southgate... how many times did he get forward yesterday, beyond their back-line (who were pretty nervous btw...)? Not at all, and then you ask why play two defensive midfielders?
Beating Senegal (without Sadio Mane), a v poor Iran performance, and a pathetic Wales team does not add up to much. I expect our sqaud to beat those teams, comfortably. Remember we couldn't beat a hard-working, organised USA.
And this is Southgate: decent man, but limited in ambition and without that edge, personality, that raw, sometimes beligerent instinct (think SAF, Mourinho, Pep, Klopp, Conte, Lippi...) that something that recognises when things do not quite fit for purpose and needs to change. Foden was ineffective for example yesterday, not his fault, but this can happen against better teams, good quality, experienced players and managers. He should be our Griezmann.
England may be better in two years, but do you really think Spain, Germany, Italy*, even Denmark etc, will be as poor as they were during this World Cup?
If England can keep cool heads from his exit and take a balanced view......I think they'll win euro 2024.
Quote fail so in response to Jeff's post above....
I'd be up for trying Foden centrally, he has enough about him to play as an 8 and Pep has already said he'll be playing that role in about 5 years time so why not at least try it out for next year during the qualifiers and nations league.
Quite amusing aswell the endless debate in run up to tournament about James Maddison and him not playing a single minute in the tournament passes without mention. He also needs a decent run in next year rather than just getting sub cameos here and there.
Reece James getting fit and being the first choice RB will be huge boost aswell.[/QUOTE]
I'd be up for trying Foden centrally, he has enough about him to play as an 8 and Pep has already said he'll be playing that role in about 5 years time so why not at least try it out for next year during the qualifiers and nations league.
Quite amusing aswell the endless debate in run up to tournament about James Maddison and him not playing a single minute in the tournament passes without mention. He also needs a decent run in next year rather than just getting sub cameos here and there.
Reece James getting fit and being the first choice RB will be huge boost aswell.[/QUOTE]
This is the best overview I have read
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...nd-because-champion-teams-win-the-big-moments
''The truth is that England were beaten here by the better team, which is not to say that France played better on the night. The difference here, perhaps, is between wanting and belonging. Between the little wedges of happenstance and self-projection that separate the champion teams from the very good. England won the game of processes, the game that plays out in the mind of a coach on a Friday evening, the game you play when you have no real institutional memory to fall back on. But France won the game of moments, the game of actions rather than intentions. And in a one-off showdown with everything at stake, it is the moments that win you the match."
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...nd-because-champion-teams-win-the-big-moments
''The truth is that England were beaten here by the better team, which is not to say that France played better on the night. The difference here, perhaps, is between wanting and belonging. Between the little wedges of happenstance and self-projection that separate the champion teams from the very good. England won the game of processes, the game that plays out in the mind of a coach on a Friday evening, the game you play when you have no real institutional memory to fall back on. But France won the game of moments, the game of actions rather than intentions. And in a one-off showdown with everything at stake, it is the moments that win you the match."
[/QUOTE]
England's biggest need is to find a replacement for Kane, not because of the penalty miss but because England are basically like United, they need a proper number 9 which Kane no longer is
This right here for me is the perfect description and the reason why in my honest opinion I find our team overrated. In games such as these between 2 big, incredible, very well balanced sides it's the players that step up and create special moments that win you the game. If you look at all of our attacking players we don't actually have anyone that has proven himself to step up in these big moments and big games, Semi finals and quarter finals of major tournaments etc..
I think our closest to that is Foden, who iirc performed well and has scored some big goals in UCL knockout stages for City, compare him to Mbappe, Giroud, Griezmann, Benzema etc. France have it in abundance as do the majority of these 'big' nations. Of course Foden etc. are still young and will get there so hopefully it's only a matter of time till we do go on and win something. I have really high hopes for Foden, Rashford, Bellingham and especially Saka (Who I think was by far our most dangerous player).
One big positivity for England that's underplayed is that their midfield more than held their own against a very good French midfield. That is a sign of progress seeing as how virtually every exit since 2006 has been one in which their midfield was crushed by a superior one.
2010-Schweinsteiger dominates and Germany launch wave after wave of successful counter attacks.
2012- Pirlo puts in one of the classiest performances i've ever seen.
2014 Pirlo again in the group stage
2018 Modric dominates the game
2021 Verrati dominates the game
With the way Griezmann was playing in the early stages I thought it was going to be another one of those days for England but they really fought back and started to win the ball and pass it well.
2010-Schweinsteiger dominates and Germany launch wave after wave of successful counter attacks.
2012- Pirlo puts in one of the classiest performances i've ever seen.
2014 Pirlo again in the group stage
2018 Modric dominates the game
2021 Verrati dominates the game
With the way Griezmann was playing in the early stages I thought it was going to be another one of those days for England but they really fought back and started to win the ball and pass it well.
England's biggest need is to find a replacement for Kane, not because of the penalty miss but because England are basically like United, they need a proper number 9 which Kane no longer is
[/QUOTE]
Thought Kane was fine in knock outs. Was brilliant v Senegal linking and then finishing and he gave Upamecano a very tough game.
Problem is Southgate isn't interested in developing alternative until Kane is about 31-32. Pep plays Foden as false 9 in key CL and prem matches but that's something beyond Southgate's skillset so we don't see it played in games Kane misses.
[/QUOTE]
Thought Kane was fine in knock outs. Was brilliant v Senegal linking and then finishing and he gave Upamecano a very tough game.
Problem is Southgate isn't interested in developing alternative until Kane is about 31-32. Pep plays Foden as false 9 in key CL and prem matches but that's something beyond Southgate's skillset so we don't see it played in games Kane misses.
Then choked against Italy in the final.
Losing a final on penalties to the best team in the tournament isn't choking. That phrase (along with "bottling") has been used so inappropriately that it's virtually lost all meaning.
My impression as well, it’s a tad annoying to be honest and unnecessary sensationalism, absolutes, media style hyperbolic crap
England are the spurs of international football
I agree it is stupid to blame one player in a team sport but its probably a blessing that it was Kane who missed the penalty as he probably get the easiest ride from the media of any England player Ive seen in my lifetime
Yup , this has been the most measured response to a missed English penalty than I've seen in my lifetime.
Is it a good idea for the same player to take two crucial penalties in a short space of time in such a big game?
I was thinking the chances of him missing this one was far greater as he would be in two minds whether to do the same thing as before or would the keeper expect that
Ive said the same thing in a few other posts.
About 10 mins before 2/1, England just began to drop off and France got back in it. I could see it and Im no coach.
Southgate didnt react and make a sub. People arguing that Deschamps hadnt made any subs either but if they began to gain the ascendancy again at 70 mins, why would he?
Its the fine margins that win close games.
They were simply better, we did not choke.
England losing automatically means they choked on here, no matter who it’s against. It’s funny how little that term means.
By caf logic, every team chokes apart from the one who wins the WC.
The No1 ranked team in the world rarely wins the WC so your probably going to have to beat at least 1 team that is considered better than you in the knockout rounds if you want to win it.
Doesnt have to be a massive giantkilling act but you have to overachieve against a better team.
England never seem to do this and until they do, they will never win a big one.
You wont get a run again like euro2021.
Doesnt have to be a massive giantkilling act but you have to overachieve against a better team.
England never seem to do this and until they do, they will never win a big one.
You wont get a run again like euro2021.
Gareth Southgate is like Mark Hughes at City when they got all that money. Yes he took them to 4th but how much would they have to have spent to win the league under him? And if you have to spend £1b every window for a manager to win the league, then is it really about him?
With Southgate it’s similar but England can’t buy players or keep developing world class players. Like every nation we have strengths & weaknesses. People think woow his done great got to the SF, Final, QF. But really with the quality of squad that he had he should beaten Croatia, beaten Italy, and made the changes both subs & tactical to beat France or at the very least have a few more chances near the end.
It’s like the United class of 92 between 93-2000 constantly finishing 3-4 and people thinking that’s great because they haven’t seen what it would be like if it was managed by a man like SAF. Same with this England squad. People think SF, losing a final to a poor Italy side, and QF is great but that’s only because they haven’t seen this team under a manager who has that winning mentality and touch of genius.
With Southgate it’s similar but England can’t buy players or keep developing world class players. Like every nation we have strengths & weaknesses. People think woow his done great got to the SF, Final, QF. But really with the quality of squad that he had he should beaten Croatia, beaten Italy, and made the changes both subs & tactical to beat France or at the very least have a few more chances near the end.
It’s like the United class of 92 between 93-2000 constantly finishing 3-4 and people thinking that’s great because they haven’t seen what it would be like if it was managed by a man like SAF. Same with this England squad. People think SF, losing a final to a poor Italy side, and QF is great but that’s only because they haven’t seen this team under a manager who has that winning mentality and touch of genius.
That is a kind of hindsight view. I dont necessarily disagree but in most cases the same player will take both pens, especially if he has scored the first.
He just bottled it. I dont think the team bottled it but he definitely did with that pen.
Excellent post
Probably reading too much into it but why were England holding a mother's meeting everyone a freekick was given? Henderson, Kane and Maguire took an age discussing things every time.
This shows a lack of organisation maybe? These things are never a big issue generally in football. Obviously you get occasions where two players want to take a free kick so maybe a disagreement etc. But with England these three, hands on mouth have the discussion with Luke Shaw taking the eventual kick.
This shows a lack of organisation maybe? These things are never a big issue generally in football. Obviously you get occasions where two players want to take a free kick so maybe a disagreement etc. But with England these three, hands on mouth have the discussion with Luke Shaw taking the eventual kick.
Yeah, it's easy to say it might have been a mistake after it's done. The fact the Lloris knows him very well might have been a contributing factor that made Kane overthink/doubt.
To me that just sounds a lot like "this is what I've decided to think about Southgate, so I'm just going to assume that's what we saw again yesterday. And because a lot of people think the same thing, it doesn't matter that I actually know jack shit about why Southgate made the decisions he made".
Assuming that someone does something for a specific reason has nothing to do with having opinions and seeing things differently.
Really gutted this time around
We should have won that tournament
We should have won that tournament
Oh, please. Like you or anyone else can know anything about how things would have gone down if different substitutions had been made at a different time. And anyway, nothing scrapes the bottom of the argumentative pond in football discussions quite like the "manager is an idiot/coward and lost the game because he didn't make the subs I would have made" classic. 20/20 hindsight, and no one can disprove whatever you want to argue. Comes at the cost though of having made an argument that you can as little support as anyone else can disprove it.