That's a good question, if Italy were a poor side then every team in the competition was shite, they got to the final and won, not the greatest Italian side by any means but poor they weren't
England Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
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We've had "world class" managers before and they were far worse than what we have now
Southgate has his faults, he's human like the rest of us, he gets slagged off because he made this sub and not that sub or at the wrong time or is too defensive
Everyone agrees that this England team is much better than any we've had in recent memory, guess what, the current manager put this team together, not some other "world class" manager
Do they though? It seems to me the problem of having a great squad but poor results when playing against teams with similar ambitions is a constant with the English national team and has not changed regardless of who the manager is.
It's alright steamrollering teams who are happy just to have qualified but England cannot beat teams of a similar quality in the knock out stages of a tournament unless they are playing at home a la Euro 96 and Euro 2021.
France were missing half their first team and were still able to get the better of England at more or less full strength.
It's not the setup that needs changing game-to-game it's the personnel, I've said this before elsewhere in another thread, if you're playing a team that has a high line then Rashford is your first pick in the forward areas, if it's a deep lying defensive team then Rashford isn't you man, you pick the right players for the job not the setup you play in 99% of games
So we start Sterling and mount (or sub them in) over more in form, better players because they’re familiar? I guess the more he uses them the more familiar they become right? What could go wrong? Remember how familiar we got with mcfred, worked out well.
What point are you trying to make? It's certainly nothing to do with what I said.
The lineup was fine. He went with Saka rather than Rashford as his pace option and balanced that with Foden for creativity. There wasn't really any problem with what he started with, it was working. It was bizarre to bring Sterling on, however. That was the main mistake.
Answering your previous question exactly this. You’re right it was bizarre and the only reason you can think of why he opted for Sterling was familiarity.
Not disagreeing with you on Sterling (or Mount)
I do kind of understand why he picks Sterling though, for all his faults, and there are many, Sterling has delivered plenty of goals which is probably why Southgate trusts him, personally I think he's like a headless chicken and runs up blind alleys all the time, but England would never have gotten to the EURO final without him
Not really. Sterling had barely played and had (apparently) been home for half the tournament. Throwing someone like that on in the closing stages of a high-pressure game is exactly what you shouldn't do.
I'm not a big rater of Sterling but agreed, he's had a knack for goals and being in the right spot at the right time for England. He's understandably someone Southgate relies on, but to throw him on the pitch having barely been present at the WC ahead of Rashford was a massive error in judgement IMO.
This is confusing, I agree with you, he made a bad decision for the reasons you stated and the reason he did so was familiarity with Sterling’s past performances. Like you say exactly what you shouldn’t do.
England WC wins since 2006.
Tunisia
Panama
Colombia
Sweden
Slovenia
Paraguay
Trinidad
Ecuador
Iran
Wales
Senegal
Tunisia
Panama
Colombia
Sweden
Slovenia
Paraguay
Trinidad
Ecuador
Iran
Wales
Senegal
Oh look, distorting the conversation and reducing it down to moronic straw man comments. Go you.Flat track bullies
To be fair , other than Iceland in the Euros, I can't recall a big upset either. Croatia with that midfield was always going to be a really tough game in 2018.
So in summary, they can beat the smaller or mid level teams comfortably, you'd rarely ever bet against them. Soon as they meet one of the 'elite' nations they usually disappoint*. That has to be the next step for them. One positive is that this time their midfield actually played really well against France which hasn't historically been the case for them against the really good teams.
*Germany in 2021 are an obvious exception but that was effectively a home game anyway.
Notice your use of the plural, setups. We only have one setup.
If you think a team should setup the same way against Wales and Iran as they do against the champions, France, then I think we should just agree to disagree.
I believe Southgate has done really well. He has taken the team as far as possible given the talent available. No shame in losing to Italy or France but I get the frustration.
I do understand some brits wanting to switch things up in order to reach even better results.
To reach gold would require not only performing very good but you would need to somehow exceed expectations and overachieve, the squad is simply not the best around. Team cohesiveness seem to be quiet high to be fair.
I'm not sure who you could bring in to get you over the line though. Wouldn't even know where to start. Tactics? Team spirit? British manager? Foreign? Defense minded? Free flowing football? What do you have in mind?
What are you even complaining about? Were we not the better team against France and played well?
Poor was the wrong choice of words. But we had the speed and pace to beat them but instead allowed them to play to their strengths and didn’t exploit any of their limitations
In 2018 they should have beat Croatia though, Croatia were such an old side.
England should have just brought more energy to the game, you're competing against Modric and Rakitic who can't really press or outsprint England.
I think the 2018 tie was just poor from Southgate tactically.
That World Cup was Englands best chance still, they literally just had to play out of their skins in a final because the route was completely clear.
Bar the CF I thought Italy were excellent tbh. Chellini-Bonucci still very solid at the back, Spinazolla really impressed as LWB until he did his achilles v Belgium. Midfield of Jorginho-Barella-Veratti was one of the strongest in the tournament and Cheisa had a very good tournament aswell.
Italy breezed through a potentially tricky group then away from Rome beat all of Austria, Belgium, Spain and England.
I was thinking today of a similar defeat for another team that then went out and won the next tournament. How about this from the Women's world cup in 2019....USA 2 England 1. That was a near identical game to what the mens team had at the weekend complete with England lionesses missing penalty in last 5 minutes.
They took stock from that defeat, realised the age profile of squad was still really good and went out and won the next euros and will now be one of the favourites for World cup.
Little bit harder with the field in mens game but that's what they have to do now, I do think England will be a top 3 contender to win Euro 2024 personally.
While it would've been cool to see England in an actual world cup final they'd have had no chance v France 2018. Massive gulf between those sides then compared to what we saw on Saturday.
England always choke. At least their women national team won.
His damn club mate spooked him that's why and cost us that extra 30 mins. May still have lost in ET or on pens though.
Yeah that is a shocking stat when you see who Morocco have beaten in this tournament alone which is damning on us
That's true, England went on the defensive too early and pay the cost, you dont give that Italy team the ball and the initiative.
You haven't watched Modrić a lot?
And in midfield its not about if you can outsprint the opponent, its more what you do with the ball and we made a good use of it. Once you didnt go 2-0 in the 1st half Modrić and Rakitić took the game by its scruff and never looked back. Player by player midfield was a lot better than England's one and that was the key imo.
And we werent really that old back then.
Poster has that the other way around. Croatia four years ago were a much stronger side than this one while England are a lot better this year.
Yeah, but he stated England should have won in 2018, I was referring to that.
England's side from this tournament is better than 2018, Croatia's teams are similar although back then we had Mandužukić upfront who made all the difference.
Yeah, but he stated England should have won in 2018, I was referring to that.
England's side from this tournament is better than 2018, Croatia's teams are similar although back then we had Mandužukić upfront who made all the difference.
And Rakitic, a class player who was an absolute star that tournament!
Yeah, such a shame he retired from NT.
Yeah, but he stated England should have won in 2018, I was referring to that.
England's side from this tournament is better than 2018, Croatia's teams are similar although back then we had Mandužukić upfront who made all the difference.
Not only him (and Rebic who’s also a workaholic for a winger). You had Rakitic… and Borozivic/Perisic/Modric. These three are still great players but they were way stronger back then. Modric was the ballon d’or ffs… People believing England’s midfield with Young/Lingard/Alli could have competed with you are deluded… The truth is even France with Pogba/Matuidi/Kanté lost the midfield battle and resorted mainly to counterattacking football.
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Exactly.
Germany got knocked out in group stage in the last 2 world cups cause they lost to Japan, South Korea, and Mexico.
Spain and Portugal got knocked out by Morocco this year, and Spain got knocked out by Russia last world cup.
A win against non-big teams is not a given anymore, we are not in the 80s and 90s.
Yes
If Tuchel or Zidane actually want the job - want it, as opposed to needing convincing - by all means go for it. Otherwise, i don't see a better option than sticking with Southgate
Yes
Honestly not surprised. He wouldn’t be getting many offers for top jobs so just stick out the one you have. He will go on to continuing brown nosing for the FA as the master puppet that he is and England will continue to suffer from his many tactical and personnel mistakes because he doesn’t have a brain. Once the next tournament passes us by maybe the FA will realize he is to England what Martinez was to Belgium.
The first part of the sentence doesn't fit with the second part.
Will admit I am a huge critic of him,however IF he actually brought in someone that was able to challenge his ideas in the critical moments of big games then that can change.
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