Its not as if France scored two goals against the run of play. It was an open game and both had chances to score. England couldn't score from open play either. So saying France won because the ref had a stinker is ridiculous. It's that excuse when England loses most of the time. England lost because Kane missed a penalty. It's not that France was outplayed and held on for dear life. These games normally don't end up in big margins.
England Discussion
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
I don't see many saying that the ref was the reason we lost. Most are lamenting Southgate safety first approach. Bad refereeing decisions happen (and happened), that's football, but it's not why we lost. I do think we played better than France though.
To be fair France's strength in depth in unparalleled. Their 1st 11 is still excellent and Stacks up well against England. But England played really well and should have converted that into a win
Agree with that. I’ve been livid when we’ve lost big games before but by and large we dominated the game and didn’t get the breaks that you need in a cup competition. France did so they went through.
At least none of players reacted like Portugal (who had a great referee in their game) did.
I’m done with supporting England. Every fecking time. I invest too ouch energy and time in it chasing something that will
Never happen. They choke every time. I think I’d rather support Wales/Scotland or Ireland because at least I would know there is no actual hope and it’s the hope that kills.
Never happen. They choke every time. I think I’d rather support Wales/Scotland or Ireland because at least I would know there is no actual hope and it’s the hope that kills.
France are not world champions for nothing. They have match winners and play well as a team.
England are a little way behind.
The players did ok last night. But we did not have match winners on the pitch. Perhaps Radhford should have played or at least come on much earlier.
But hay ho. It is what it is. We lost and that is that.
You do get the feeling that once England get their acts together and win a tournament, given the sheer strength of its domestic football the floodgates will be open and they’ll be competing for major trophies on a more regular basis.
I expected us to come unstuck against France, even though I believe we had the tools to beat them. Southgate isn't brave enough, and it will always cost us.
Right. Best team of the tournament (with zero players missing from the settled XI that has earned that distinction), and to you it's "shocking" that England fails to beat them. Because obviously normally they would, unless someone really bothched things. They've proven that again and again over the years.
We played very well and should have won the game really. Players like Foden, Saka, Bellingham, Rashford, Mount will be in or near their primes by the next World Cup, which could in theory make us even better next time. We need some quality centre backs to come through in the next 4 years. Maybe Tomori or Guehe or someone like that will reach a higher level in that time.
Southgate has done some great things in his time. He’s completely changed the culture of the camp and got rid of club rivalries. Players enjoy going and playing for England and seem to genuinely believe they can win tournaments. Unfortunately he’s just not a top class game manager. His tactical nouce is lacking and he can’t change a game when things aren’t going right. He’s also too pragmatic given the talent we have going forward, even if we are a bit weak defensively.
Southgate has done some great things in his time. He’s completely changed the culture of the camp and got rid of club rivalries. Players enjoy going and playing for England and seem to genuinely believe they can win tournaments. Unfortunately he’s just not a top class game manager. His tactical nouce is lacking and he can’t change a game when things aren’t going right. He’s also too pragmatic given the talent we have going forward, even if we are a bit weak defensively.
Done supporting England because they were fortunate to lose against the best team in the tournament
So. How exactly wasn't Southgate "brave enough" on this occasion, and how exactly did that cost you?
The team played in the most offensive formation they have in the inventory, had almost 60% possession and about twice the xG and shots France had, defensive midfielders and full backs got heavily involved in the attack, they accepted more or less constant exposure to French counterattacks since the first French goal and they didn't drop back once they'd equalised. So, what more do you want? Should have gone with a back two maybe? Played TAA against Mbappe on right back? Asked Pickford to double as a DCM when in possession? What?
I think this Brasilian referee was rather dodgy wasn't he?!
Seeing a lot people talk about England bottling it as usual…England have been largely brilliant this tournament. They destroyed three teams in the five games they played and are still the top scorers in the tournament. I believe that they edged France in terms of performance last night and deserved to win too, albeit just marginally. I have not seen a better England team since I started watching football in 2009, including the one that made the Euros final last year and World Cup semi final in 2018, because both teams would have been utterly destroyed by France. This team held their own.
Having said that, my personal opinion is that considering both Pochettino and Tuchel actually seem keen on taking the job, Southgate still needs to go. He has done a good job, but last night’s defeat was down to him, if anyone. Rashford and Grealish simply had to come on earlier than they did, and Saka should not have come off. Also, Deschamps has shown how important it is for a country to have a world class manager, especially when the rest in international football are…not world class. Southgate is one of the latter; Pochettino and Tuchel are very much in the former category alongside Deschamps.
Having said that, my personal opinion is that considering both Pochettino and Tuchel actually seem keen on taking the job, Southgate still needs to go. He has done a good job, but last night’s defeat was down to him, if anyone. Rashford and Grealish simply had to come on earlier than they did, and Saka should not have come off. Also, Deschamps has shown how important it is for a country to have a world class manager, especially when the rest in international football are…not world class. Southgate is one of the latter; Pochettino and Tuchel are very much in the former category alongside Deschamps.
He's referring to lack of bravery when making changes I assume, and it's a good point.
After the equaliser England had France on the ropes, but players were tiring and couldn't keep that up - if he'd made his changes about 20 minutes earlier, rather than waiting until England had surrendered all the momentum and had gone behind again, then England could have continued to press the advantage.
It's the same old story under Southgate unfortunately, he doesn't make proactive changes, and that continues to cost England at the top level.
Aye yeah that's correct.
Our level is round about getting to the QFs of a World Cup and only beyond with a favourable draw, a slice of good luck (we did get some bad luck) or the opponents having a horror. To think we are better than that is looking at it with red, white and blue tinted specs...
I just don't think that's true? International football isn't good, and we've a team full of elite players. Look who are in the semis for heavens sake, we should be there.
Of course you need luck, its a cup competition after all.
I think you're massively underrating the current squads ability.
And why exactly should we be assuming this is a matter of courage rather than of opinion or judgment? I note in this regard that there are plenty of voices on here protesting about Saka and Foden being taken off, so it doesn't seem all that self-evident what should have been done.
I mean obviously it's all opinion based? We all think and see things differently. But the overriding opinion I see most places is Southgate lacks courage and doesn't take risks.
Good tournament, did ok really considering we have got Pickford in goal, Stones and Maguire as centrebacks and Rice, Henderson and a 19 year old Bellingham in midfield. Bellingham could well go on to be a solid midfielder but he is still young and got it all to prove . In the end France were more clinical and used their experience to manage the match better .
I just can’t do it anymore. France weren’t even that good last night and England were given a golden opportunity and still choked. Croatia, Italy, Germany Argentina the list is endless. Eternal chokers.Done supporting England because they were fortunate to lose against the best team in the tournament
Did well overall, no complaints with the players.
Southgate has done a fantastic job of getting them together and playing like a team. It's such a shame he has no plan B or bottle in the big games.
I would want France to win it now, but Mbappe has such a punchable face that I'm not sure I could stand it.
Southgate has done a fantastic job of getting them together and playing like a team. It's such a shame he has no plan B or bottle in the big games.
I would want France to win it now, but Mbappe has such a punchable face that I'm not sure I could stand it.
Why did Henderson start yesterday, he was not needed, surely Bellingham and rice should have at least been equal to rabiot and tchouameni in winning the midfield battle and should have used foden or maddison in the middle in place of Henderson behind the striker, maybe even kane as he is well equipped to have played in that role with his best attributes and used rashford as the striker.
Hearing that just makes these next days seriously hard,don't want to bother with anyone or anything after last night.
We still haven't got it at the sharp end,fortunately I was too young to be scarred by Waddle and Pearce. This one is going to sting for next 18 months at least.
mind me asking what you mean with eternal chokers when it comes to Italy and Germany? I lack context I think
I suppose the Euros final against Italy and Germany in the 90smind me asking what you mean with eternal chokers when it comes to Italy and Germany? I lack context I think
Can't see it ever happening after last night
That's all? meh..calling two of the three nations with most cup wins "bottlers", Italy beating France in the final in 2006...seems a little bit dumb.
I took it as England being bottlers and the matches against Italy and Germany as example of that
Kane on his NFL hopes:
“The main one is maybe looking at the option of playing in the NFL one day. That would be a bucket list, a dream come true.”
10th December 2022
Scores a field goal and sends England (his own team) packing from the World Cup
Concentrate on the here and now Harry!
“The main one is maybe looking at the option of playing in the NFL one day. That would be a bucket list, a dream come true.”
10th December 2022
Scores a field goal and sends England (his own team) packing from the World Cup
Concentrate on the here and now Harry!
That England squad 5 subs should have won that Cup, and again failed its always going to be. France knock them out with let's be honest nothing special. Morroco in semi waiting and they still couldn't do it. 2 bits of quality from France was the difference. England were the better side in second half by far. And why take Maddison if he wasn't to get a kick?.
Another 4 year wait .
Another 4 year wait .
It's a weird one. Last tourney Germany vs. England were playing, England won, right? They choked in 2010 against Germany, but that's all in that context. Latest result against Germany was good as well.
I guess I will never understand the true meaning of "bottling" something.
Teams England have bottled it against down the yearsmind me asking what you mean with eternal chokers when it comes to Italy and Germany? I lack context I think
That miss hurts so much because he normally wouldn't let something get in his head,DAMN why couldn't Lloris have not been a Spurs player.
Not today please
England knocked Germany out in the Euro 2020
There were two keys that decided the match and England failed both. First being in-game management, could Southgate make the right tweaks and substitutions are the right time? He didn’t. Secondly, making the big mistake of seeing Mbappe as the be all and end all and if he doesn’t have the ball there’s no danger which led Griezmann to have a field day.
Real shame because the team played well and France were very beatable last night. Southgate needs to move on now, a top manager can make this England team levels above what they are.
Real shame because the team played well and France were very beatable last night. Southgate needs to move on now, a top manager can make this England team levels above what they are.
He means england.