England at World Cup 2014

The Purley King said:
Can't remember who wrote it but - "England are less than the sum of their parts" sums it up perfectly for me.
Some of the parts aren't that great, Gerrard and Henderson were particularly poor last night, but other teams manage to pull together and even the lesser names contribute massively, Ron Vlaar anyone?
Agree totally that even if we still have a chance to go through, we should drop Gerrard, Baines, Johnson, Jagielka and Henderson. Replace with Wilshere, Shaw, Jones, Smalling and Ox. Since Woy didn't pick Carrick its hard to see who should sit in front of the back 4, but Gerrard has gone mentally and physically. The end of the PL season confirmed this. Just go for it against Costa Rica, lets see a 5-3 or something like that. Nothing to lose now.......
Click to expand...


Ron Vlaar, De Guzman, De Jong then a bunch of unknowns playing in the Eredivisie accompanied by two decent players and an over the hill Sneijder. Sorry but that team is not better than an entire side playing in the Premier League, most of which are first choice or even stars at their clubs, some of which are among the top scorers and assisters, or in the team of the season.

It makes no sense. At all.
 
Also - I am in Italy atm and despite not speaking a word of Italian I enjoyed listening to their commentary more than Andy fecking Townsend.........
 
saw this crap a mile off in the friendlies prior to the world cup, look at how uruguay found a formation that fits both suarez and cavani up front, where as hodgson was throwing the likes of rooney and welbeck out on the wing in the friendlies before the world cup instead of trying a formation the fits both rooney and sturridge up front and all we've heard from the media, fans and the fa for few years now is that we need to develop technically gifted players and yet most of the ones we have that possess such technical ability were sat on the bench for both the italy and uruguay games?
 
The problem with England is twofold for me:

1. No star player

Most of the teams in with a shout of winning this competition have someone in their team who is a star player. Even when the team is struggling to play well can create something from nothing. We no longer have that. The last player who did this was Beckham - either through free kicks or set pieces. Rooney is good, and didn't play too badly last night, but i never had confidence he would produce something truly special.

I'm probably being naive but i still believe man for man Englands squad has a slight advantage over the dutch one - throw robben into the equation and you have a player who can win a game by himself. We don't have that.

2. A Lost generation

We seem to have a few very old players, then Rooney, then lots of younger players. Where was the class of players who came through when Rooney emerged?? What we are missing is a group of players reaching their peek at between 25-28. For some reason the players from that era never amounted to anything. Hopefully the younger players can keep pushing on.
 
rpitchfo said:
We seem to have a few very old players, then Rooney, then lots of younger players. Where was the class of players who came through when Rooney emerged?? What we are missing is a group of players reaching their peek at between 25-28. For some reason the players from that era never amounted to anything. Hopefully the younger players can keep pushing on.
Click to expand...
They never got their chance because we kept The Golden Generation around for too long.
 
rpitchfo said:
The problem with England is twofold for me:

1. No star player

Most of the teams in with a shout of winning this competition have someone in their team who is a star player. Even when the team is struggling to play well can create something from nothing. We no longer have that. The last player who did this was Beckham - either through free kicks or set pieces. Rooney is good, and didn't play too badly last night, but i never had confidence he would produce something truly special.

I'm probably being naive but i still believe man for man Englands squad has a slight advantage over the dutch one - throw robben into the equation and you have a player who can win a game by himself. We don't have that.

2. A Lost generation

We seem to have a few very old players, then Rooney, then lots of younger players. Where was the class of players who came through when Rooney emerged?? What we are missing is a group of players reaching their peek at between 25-28. For some reason the players from that era never amounted to anything. Hopefully the younger players can keep pushing on.
Click to expand...

3. English players (generally) for decades have lacked basic footballing know-how.
 
Against Costa Rica i would like to see

Hart
Johnson(We have noone else) Jones Smalling Shaw
Henderson Wilshere
Ox Sterling Welbz
Rooney



And also Woy has to go. feck him off, get a top class Foreign Manager who was no affiliation to the English clubs so he doesnt feel like he has to play certain players and hopefully he shows he has some bollocks unlike Hodgson and will drop stevie me and rooney if need be and use the players we have which suit a fast, energetic and counter attacking team.
 
rpitchfo said:
2. A Lost generation

We seem to have a few very old players, then Rooney, then lots of younger players. Where was the class of players who came through when Rooney emerged?? What we are missing is a group of players reaching their peek at between 25-28. For some reason the players from that era never amounted to anything. Hopefully the younger players can keep pushing on.
Click to expand...

I was about to make this point but saw your post. The generation you're talking about are: Rooney, Young, Lennon, Milner, Baines, Glen Johnson, Cahill, Downing, Dawson, Huddlestone, Bent, Andy Johnson. Rooneys the only one I'd have in the England team, Cahill is a solid CB if he's got a genuine world class CB besides him (hurt saying that, but Terry tbf is a very good CB, despite his age.). Makes even worse reading if you count players aged 24/25 to the above list.
 
can u imagine the viewing figures in england for the italy-costa rica game today lol.

what's sad is if italy actually do us a likely favour today and beat costa rica then hodgson will still probably stick to the same formation and players that he's used for the 2 losses, i do think we've still got a better chance of qualifying for the knockouts than most expect, italy will be trying their hardest to win their last game against uruguay to make sure they finish 1st coz they could potentially lose that spot to uruguay who will be going all out for the win coz even a draw won't be good enough if rica beat england and even draw against england could see costa rica go through over uruguay
 
Best I've seen England play in my lifetime. Sadly it coincided with probably the first time England is drawn against two top 10 - possibly top 5 - sides in a group of death.

Build upon it, don't ruin it. From a neutral point of view, you were enjoyable to watch. I mean it.
 
RedSky said:
I was about to make this point but saw your post. The generation you're talking about are: Rooney, Young, Lennon, Milner, Baines, Glen Johnson, Cahill, Downing, Dawson, Huddlestone, Bent, Andy Johnson. Rooneys the only one I'd have in the England team, Cahill is a solid CB if he's got a genuine world class CB besides him (hurt saying that, but Terry tbf is a very good CB, despite his age.). Makes even worse reading if you count players aged 24/25 to the above list.
Click to expand...

That is probably the worst generation of footballers England have ever produced. I remember there were a few seasons in the Prem when there didn't seem to be any exciting young players breaking through at all, whereas nowadays you are seeing a good half dozen per season making some sort of impact. We've paid for that failure as the England team is now devoid of players who are supposed to be at their peak.

The generation before those had a lot of talented players (albeit one-dimensional) like Beckham, Scholes, Ferdinand, Cole, Hargreaves, Owen and so on. Really we are still a nation in transition - the Welbeck & Sturridge generation represent the first shoots of a new approach and I expect to see a flood of talent in the next 5 years to continue on from the likes of Sterling, Oxlade & Barkley.
 
rogey said:
can u imagine the viewing figures in england for the italy-costa rica game today lol.

what's sad is if italy actually do us a likely favour today and beat costa rica then hodgson will still probably stick to the same formation and players that he's used for the 2 losses, i do think we've still got a better chance of qualifying for the knockouts than most expect, italy will be trying their hardest to win their last game against uruguay to make sure they finish 1st coz they could potentially lose that spot to uruguay who will be going all out for the win coz even a draw won't be good enough if rica beat england and even draw against england could see costa rica go through over uruguay
Click to expand...

I don't think he will. He'll make changes, he'll know that what we've done in the last two games wasn't enough so he'll swap it round and tell the players coming in "this is your chance". It'd be good management to do that, utilises the squad and gives the players with low morale a chance to be out of spotlight. I'd be dropping Jagielka, Gerrard, Sterling, Welbeck. Bringing in Smalling, Wilshere, Ox and Lallana. It's tempting to drop Baines, but his 2nd half performance showed he can bring his A Game and he's still a better option that Shaw for me who showed he's not ready yet in the friendly.

It's the now or never approach. The only problem is that we won't keep a clean sheet, the team isn't capable because our defence just isn't good enough. But we haven't really looked clinical in front of goal either. So do you drop Johnson in favour of Jones who is a better defender and thus reducing our attacking ability but making us better defensively? Or do you risk Johnson and try the out scoring approach?

Wouldn't like to be Roy thats for sure. :lol:

Although I still think todays game will end up being a draw so it won't matter anyway.
 
toonfan said:
That is probably the worst generation of footballers England have ever produced. I remember there were a few seasons in the Prem when there didn't seem to be any exciting young players breaking through at all, whereas nowadays you are seeing a good half dozen per season making some sort of impact. We've paid for that failure as the England team is now devoid of players who are supposed to be at their peak.

The generation before those had a lot of talented players (albeit one-dimensional) like Beckham, Scholes, Ferdinand, Cole, Hargreaves, Owen and so on. Really we are still a nation in transition - the Welbeck & Sturridge generation represent the first shoots of a new approach and I expect to see a flood of talent in the next 5 years to continue on from the likes of Sterling, Oxlade & Barkley.
Click to expand...

There is nothing to suggest that these guys are any better than whats gone before. What have England won at under age level? I think the last time was in 1993 at Under 18.
 
Ok.

Chance of Italy beating CR: 80%
Chance of Italy beating Uruguay: 50%
Chance of England beating CR: 70%
Chance of either Italy winning CR by more than one goal, OR England beating CR by more than one goal (with the assumption that both will win): 90%

0.8 x 0.5 x 0.7 x 0.9 = 25% chance of England going through.

A more conservative chance of Italy beating Uruguay (40%) would knock England's chances to about 20%.

@rcoobc is it to your taste? :)
 
toonfan said:
That is probably the worst generation of footballers England have ever produced. I remember there were a few seasons in the Prem when there didn't seem to be any exciting young players breaking through at all, whereas nowadays you are seeing a good half dozen per season making some sort of impact. We've paid for that failure as the England team is now devoid of players who are supposed to be at their peak.

The generation before those had a lot of talented players (albeit one-dimensional) like Beckham, Scholes, Ferdinand, Cole, Hargreaves, Owen and so on. Really we are still a nation in transition - the Welbeck & Sturridge generation represent the first shoots of a new approach and I expect to see a flood of talent in the next 5 years to continue on from the likes of Sterling, Oxlade & Barkley.
Click to expand...

It's depressing looking at the list of players from that generation!

I'm still not convinced about the direction we're taking in England with regards to our young players. There just isn't enough coming through, compare that to Germany and they have a far bigger net of players to choose from and that's ultimately the problem we face. In Germany they'd have 4/5 players in each position to choose from.
 
thegregster said:
There is nothing to suggest that these guys are any better than whats gone before. What have England won at under age level? I think the last time was in 1993 at Under 18.
Click to expand...

We've won two of the last under 17 tournaments in 2010 and 2014. The current 17s & u19s are supposed to be rather good. England youth coaches say the pool of players they are working with is now at least twice as large as it was a decade ago, which is encouraging. From what I have seen England have made a lot of progress developing young players - the problem is that so have the other top European countries - no one has been standing still in recent years.

England are going to have a flood of good players coming through - it's already started in the Premiership. Unfortunately, they're still all English-style players and I can't see us suddenly producing Suarez or Pirlo types - we just don't have the mentality. English players are too honest and stupid.
 
Avatar said:
Best I've seen England play in my lifetime. Sadly it coincided with probably the first time England is drawn against two top 10 - possibly top 5 - sides in a group of death.

Build upon it, don't ruin it. From a neutral point of view, you were enjoyable to watch. I mean it.
Click to expand...

I agree, here im the Netherlands they also praised England. They could have a good side in 2/4 years time. Dropping Gerrard should be a first step.. with the pace England front line has they really need a creative midfielder. Maybe they should ask Scholes if he can play for them again. Otherwise Wilshere and Barkley are options.
 
toonfan said:
We've won two of the last under 17 tournaments in 2010 and 2014. The current 17s & u19s are supposed to be rather good. England youth coaches say the pool of players they are working with is now at least twice as large as it was a decade ago, which is encouraging. From what I have seen England have made a lot of progress developing young players - the problem is that so have the other top European countries - no one has been standing still in recent years.

England are going to have a flood of good players coming through - it's already started in the Premiership. Unfortunately, they're still all English-style players and I can't see us suddenly producing Suarez or Pirlo types - we just don't have the mentality. English players are too honest and stupid.
Click to expand...

I'd say the only player that really stands out for me is Patrick Roberts, every time I've seen him play he's been the best on the pitch by some distance. That boy is utterly class and should have played for Fulham more last season imo. He's what I call a special talent. Fulham made the big error last season of not giving their young players a proper go. Dembele and Roberts are both very young, but both look capable of playing in the Premier League already.
 
We don't have a genuine world class player

even the sides who are not all that have one or two.....
Italy - Pirlo can be world class on his day and Balotelli is a good striker although probably not world class
Uruguay - Suarez and Cavani
Holland - Robben and Van Persie

The Netherlands are a good example of this. The likes of De Jong and De Guzman make the starting line up which is full of no names but Robben, Van Persie and Sneijder are all world class
 
RedSky said:
I'd say the only player that really stands out for me is Patrick Roberts, every time I've seen him play he's been the best on the pitch by some distance. That boy is utterly class and should have played for Fulham more last season imo. He's what I call a special talent. Fulham made the big error last season of not giving their young players a proper go. Dembele and Roberts are both very young, but both look capable of playing in the Premier League already.
Click to expand...

In fairness winning/doing well in under age tournaments on a regular basis is always a good thing.
 
VS Costa Rica


Hart
Jones Smalling CB Shaw
Henderson Wilshere
Sterling Barkley Lallana
Welbeck
​


Wouldn't mind any of Sturridge/Barkley being substituted in either..
 
Stadjer said:
I agree, here im the Netherlands they also praised England. They could have a good side in 2/4 years time. Dropping Gerrard should be a first step.. with the pace England front line has they really need a creative midfielder. Maybe they should ask Scholes if he can play for them again. Otherwise Wilshere and Barkley are options.
Click to expand...

Yeah, England totally lacked a midfield, which never helps in a football match! England could've done with a proper defensive midfielder in the squad imo. For all the talk of physical, quick players, we had OAP Gerrard embarrassing himself. While there are a few good attacking midfieders coming through, I can't see any young English DMs.
 
Avatar said:
Best I've seen England play in my lifetime. Sadly it coincided with probably the first time England is drawn against two top 10 - possibly top 5 - sides in a group of death.

Build upon it, don't ruin it. From a neutral point of view, you were enjoyable to watch. I mean it.
Click to expand...
Uruguay are not a top team at all.
 
The under 17 team of the last tournament is the first England side at any level i've seen who genuinely didn't look technically deficicient, and the only England team i've seen where everyone was comfortable on the ball and actually wanted it. If we can keep producing teams like that, there's no problem, but that's the big question.

Until England produces players who are comfortable getting the ball in tight spaces, can pass the ball quickly and accurately, and for whom off the ball movement is natural rather than something they have to think about, we will never make a final, yet alone win one.
 
Paradoxically, even though England needs Italy to win today, the lesser the margin the better for England. If Italy trumps them then they will be more relaxed against Uruguay.

So between Italy 1-0 CR / England 2-0 CR and Italy 2-0 CR / England 1-0 CR the former might actually be better even if it forces England to do more in the last game.
 
Italy probably think they have England's number, so I doubt they'll be striving particularly hard to put England out. Sure, they'd probably view it as useful...but far from a priority.
 
Hell Raiser said:
This is the main reason england are always a poor team, we look at stats and not football.
Click to expand...

Well even if you look at football he was still our best player on the pitch yesterday, what exactly did the almighty Baines do? not to mention Gerrard obviously or Barkley when he came on. Sturidge and Sterling? the whole team played an average 5, at least Rooney was a 7.
 
a few websites/forums piling into Stevie Mee and imo rightly so.
2nd and 3rd verses being added to the Gerrard song already about his WC efforts
 
I think that there are plenty of techinically adept players in England, but their tactical understanding is always so poor. How often do you see static England midfielders, strikers not running the channels but waiting for the ball to come to them, full backs that come inside when there's space down the wing or go out wide when the winger needs them to create space by coming inside? Or the centre halves hoofing the ball up to the forwards instead of finding a midfielder (which is IMO much more down to midfield deficiencies than a true long ball mentality).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.