England at World Cup 2014

toonfan said:
Yeah, England totally lacked a midfield, which never helps in a football match! England could've done with a proper defensive midfielder in the squad imo. For all the talk of physical, quick players, we had OAP Gerrard embarrassing himself. While there are a few good attacking midfieders coming through, I can't see any young English DMs.
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When you see Suarez literally walk through our midfield in the build up to his first goal, with nobody tracking his run, you just think to yourself that's exactly the kinda thing a holding player would stop.

The way Roy used Gerrard you'd have thought he was 24, not 34. He was never gonna be able to follow Suarez around and get up and down the field for 90s minutes. Not even Robbo and Keano could manage that kinda shift when they were 34.
 
BlueCelery said:
Lampard didn't even go to the Euros. And you're really critcisizng Terry's inclusion at the Euros? Because Jagielka did much better didn't he?
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I can't remember all the details granted, but I said at the time we should abandon more or less anyone over 30.

We weren't going to win the euros either way so I would have much rather seen the likes of Welbeck, Sturridge, AOC, Wilshere, Cleverley, Jones, Smalling and others get some much needed international experience and to start to learn to play with each other as a team. Instead we just have the likes of Terry, Cole, Carrick and Barry their final outings and for what?
 
Do you know what? Feck it, we're not out just yet!!! Italy will beat Costa Rica and they have a chance of beating Uruguay so let's keep the faith, people! A 1-0 win would suffice against Costa Rica if they lose at least 2-0 to Italy and Italy beat Uruguay. I'm definitely clutching at straws but there's a 12% chance we'll still go through, don't you know?
 
Maybe an unpopular opinion but: English players lack character to achieve great things in a big tournament.

As someone from the continent, it always amazes me how much English players get in the papers, doing stupid stuff which hasn't have anything to do with doing their job. It seems like they lack commitment, to make it to the top. I was talking about it on wednesday with some friends. When Rooney was 17-18 years, we all thought he was going to be the best player in the world for years to come. Obviously, due to his talent, he has had a good career, so far, but he could have been up there with Messi and Ronaldo. Young English players are more worried about the next WAG they can hook up with, in stead of training and doing what they are paid for. Is it due to the huge wages they get from the beginning? Not maybe the best example, but Lukaku was paid about 500.000€ when he was 18 years, and playing at Anderlecht. He was playing Champions League and was topscorer that year. Shaw would be paid about 4.8 million pounds if he comes to Utd (and gets paid what the papers are saying), at the same age. I know, there is a big difference between the Belgian, Dutch, French... league and the Premier League in budgets, but I honestly think players from outside the UK have to fight harder to make if to the top, and earn top money.
 
thegregster said:
There is nothing to suggest that these guys are any better than whats gone before. What have England won at under age level? I think the last time was in 1993 at Under 18.
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We won the under-17 Euros in 2010 and this year. Also reached the under-21 final in 2009 and lost to a Germany side containing Neuer, Hummels, Ozil, Boeteng, Howedes, Khedira. We also runners up in 2005 and 2009 of the under-19's.
 
Walrus said:
I can't remember all the details granted, but I said at the time we should abandon more or less anyone over 30.

We weren't going to win the euros either way so I would have much rather seen the likes of Welbeck, Sturridge, AOC, Wilshere, Cleverley, Jones, Smalling and others get some much needed international experience and to start to learn to play with each other as a team. Instead we just have the likes of Terry, Cole, Carrick and Barry their final outings and for what?
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I couldnt agree more. Im glad the younger generation are finally getting their chance but it should have happened sooner.
 
Anyone who expected Stevie Me and Jordan Henderson to carry England to world cup success are either Liverpool supporters or delusional or both.
 
What stood out for me last night was the lack of a midfielder that took the ball from the centre halves and made strides into the opposition half, or played an incisive pass to a centre forward. Despite everyone saying Rooney played well, his movement up front was pretty poor imo, too many times he was just standing centrally and not making a great effort to get himself any space.
Dare I say it, but someone busy, like a Cleverley, who buzzes about and plays little one twos would have been better than Henderson or Gerrard. Not saying Cleverley himself, but someone like that who can link things together.
 
Adebesi said:
I couldnt agree more. Im glad the younger generation are finally getting their chance but it should have happened sooner.
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Yep. Going out in the group stages. What a massive accomplishment by our younger generation.
 
The Purley King said:
Also - I am in Italy atm and despite not speaking a word of Italian I enjoyed listening to their commentary more than Andy fecking Townsend.........
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Never understand the condescending behavior towards pundits by you lot. Get off your high horse. These pundits have atleast achieved something in football and are not armchair fans like you.
 
Everyone knew this world cup would be a write off from the start.

I don't know why they didn't just fully commit to a youthful team. Stick Jones, Wilshere, Ox + Barkley on from the first minutes. Get them game time and experience. Hell a bit of youthful exuberance and pace would have done wonders.
 
BlueCelery said:
Yep. Going out in the group stages. What a massive accomplishment by our younger generation.
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1) Massive inexperience in this squad. But there will be more experience now for the Euros.
2) If more of these players had gone to the Euros last time round there would have been more experience this time, maybe that would have helped.
3) No knowing whether our more experienced players would have actually done any better than this lot. (Kind of undermines my other two points, but it is another way of looking at it anyway.)
 
You do have to wonder what's wrong with England when you see the likes of Ron Vlaar and Jean Beausejour conquering Spain and the likes of Rooney and Gerrard can't beat Uruguay. Uruguay had about 3 players that would get into the England team.
 
Hell Raiser said:
Uruguay are not a top team at all.
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umm...they are , or you judging from the Costa Rica game?!

They finished 4th in the last world cup with basically the same squad. Also everybody has been calling this a group of death since the draw last December. what are you talking about ?!!
 
Arruda said:
Ok.

Chance of Italy beating CR: 80%
Chance of Italy beating Uruguay: 50%
Chance of England beating CR: 70%
Chance of either Italy winning CR by more than one goal, OR England beating CR by more than one goal (with the assumption that both will win): 90%

0.8 x 0.5 x 0.7 x 0.9 = 25% chance of England going through.

A more conservative chance of Italy beating Uruguay (40%) would knock England's chances to about 20%.

@rcoobc is it to your taste? :)
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You have no idea how similar that is to a lot of things I am doing at the moment is :lol: Amazing.

We should get 10 caftards with their deep football analysis skills to predict the chances of each match, to employ a wisdom-of-the-crowd type situation.

Get the weighted average (using confidence of each result per caftard), get the standard deviation, find the confidence interval and then compare with the actual odds.

Such happiness would we have in our lives on doing this.

I would say though, as you say, the chances of Italy beating Uruguay with no reason to do so (a draw is enough to see them top in this scenario) will be much less than 50%. I estimate 20%.
 
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Chance of Italy beating CR: 60%
Chance of Italy beating Uruguay: 45%
Chance of England beating CR: 55%
Chance of either Italy winning CR by more than one goal, OR England beating CR by more than one goal (with the assumption that both will win): 40%

You're welcome.

0.6 x 0.45 x 0.55 x 0.4 = 6% :lol:
 
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Avatar said:
umm...they are , or you judging from the Costa Rica game?!

They finished 4th in the last world cup with basically the same squad. Also everybody has been calling this a group of death since the draw last December. what are you talking about ?!!
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To be fair, they came 5th in qualifying (again), but this type Brazil automatically qualified.

But to be fair to my to be fair, South American qualifying is very tight. 3 points separating 3rd from 5th this time, 3 points separating 5th from 8th last time.

South America should be given more places. Force them to accept those non-CONMEBOL South American nations Guyana, Suriname, and the French Guiana, and give them another place.
 
rcoobc said:
To be fair, they came 5th in qualifying (again), but this type Brazil automatically qualified.

But to be fair to my to be fair, South American qualifying is very tight. 3 points separating 3rd from 5th this time, 3 points separating 5th from 8th last time.

South America should be given more places. Force them to accept those non-CONMEBOL South American nations Guyana, Suriname, and the French Guiana, and give them another place.
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Qualifications mean little believe me. I think Uruguay is one of the strongest sides in this tournament. I hope I'm wrong 'cause i dislike them , but i believe they might advance to the very late stages of the tournament, but it depends on Suarez.
 
Avatar said:
Qualifications mean little believe me. I think Uruguay is one of the strongest sides in this tournament. I hope I'm wrong 'cause i dislike them , but i believe they might advance to the very late stages of the tournament, but it depends on Suarez.
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I don't believe you, I think that Qualification means a lot, especially for South America
 
-------------Hart
Walker Jones Stones Shaw
------Wilshere---Morrison
Sterling(or Walcott)------------------Ox
------------Barkley
-----------Rooney(or Sturridge)

I'd start a team like this more times than not for Euro 18 qualifiers.

Defense is a massive worry though, John Terry coming out of retirement may have helped us this summer, he's still by far the best English defender and actually on reflection maybe we should have took Ashley Cole for his experience, Baines has had a terrible World Cup.
 
My main concern with England and I made a thread about this at the end of last season. Is that we simply aren't producing enough players who are being given a chance in the Premier League.

If we look at players aged 21 or younger when the World Cup began (12th June). 30 English players have at least 1 appearance in the PL out of 60 players. The real concern is that only Liverpool, Everton and Southampton are really pulling their weight. 15 of these players have 10 or more appearances they are:

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
Wilfried Zaha
Ross Barkley
John Stones
Raheem Sterling
Jon Flanagan
Nathan Redmond
Luke Shaw
Sam Gallagher
James Ward-Prowse
Calum Chambers
Connor Wickham
Harry Kane
Saido Berahino
Ravel Morrison

Southampton gave 113 appearances to English 21 or younger players,
Everton 77
Liverpool 60
Norwich 43
West Brom 32
West Ham/Tottenham 17
Sunderland 15
Arsenal 14
Cardiff/Fulham 12
Newcastle 4
Manchester United 3
Chelsea 1

I'd compare it to Bundesliga, but they have 120 odd players that fit the same criteria. It'd be interesting to compare it to Spain or Italy though. Might do that when I have a spare hour.
 
RedSky said:
My main concern with England and I made a thread about this at the end of last season. Is that we simply aren't producing enough players who are being given a chance in the Premier League.

If we look at players aged 21 or younger when the World Cup began (12th June). 30 English players have at least 1 appearance in the PL out of 60 players. The real concern is that only Liverpool, Everton and Southampton are really pulling their weight. 15 of these players have 10 or more appearances they are:

Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain
Wilfried Zaha
Ross Barkley
John Stones
Raheem Sterling
Jon Flanagan
Nathan Redmond
Luke Shaw
Sam Gallagher
James Ward-Prowse
Calum Chambers
Connor Wickham
Harry Kane
Saido Berahino
Ravel Morrison

Southampton gave 113 appearances to English 21 or younger players,
Everton 77
Liverpool 60
Norwich 43
West Brom 32
West Ham/Tottenham 17
Sunderland 15
Arsenal 14
Cardiff/Fulham 12
Newcastle 4
Manchester United 3
Chelsea 1

I'd compare it to Bundesliga, but they have 120 odd players that fit the same criteria. It'd be interesting to compare it to Spain or Italy though. Might do that when I have a spare hour.
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This relates back to a point @Vidyoyo made in another thread: if there were more English players playing abroad there'd be a bigger pool of people to choose from with more football under their belts - as well as a better understanding of different styles. So maybe we should be pushing more English kids to play abroad. The only way I can think to force this issue is to use the infrastructure provided by the feeder club system.
 
toonfan said:
Yeah, England totally lacked a midfield, which never helps in a football match! England could've done with a proper defensive midfielder in the squad imo. For all the talk of physical, quick players, we had OAP Gerrard embarrassing himself. While there are a few good attacking midfieders coming through, I can't see any young English DMs.
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Rodwell could have been that player if he wasnt injured all the time and was playing at another club. Maybe Phil Jones can play in that DM role?
 
Adebesi said:
This relates back to a point @Vidyoyo made in another thread: if there were more English players playing abroad there'd be a bigger pool of people to choose from with more football under their belts - as well as a better understanding of different styles. So maybe we should be pushing more English kids to play abroad. The only way I can think to force this issue is to use the infrastructure provided by the feeder club system.
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Well there are 7 teams that didn't give 1 App to a young English player. That's just over a third of the League! City the League champions didn't give 1 Appearance to an English lad! I agree about our players needing to go abroad, I just hope that some of the PL teams are looking at how successful Southampton have been and start to follow their methods. Southampton are carrying this English Generation.
 
If anyone is looking for a scapegoat, turns out it's all ITV's fault.

Heard an incredible stat on a podcast just now.

28 years ago, ITV broadcast live and exclusive coverage of an England victory over Algeria. Since then, how many other England victories got the same coverage?
 
Clubs should set up exchange programs with European clubs whereby young players are sent to Europe for a season (if they are full time pros) or 2-4 week summer camps at European clubs. The training they receive and the introduction to more technique based football might start to open eyes and doors.
 
what doesn't help is young english players still being naive enough to sign for chelsea and man city on good contracts short term, how many more years and examples do they need to witness these two teams ignore young players and i'm not just talking about young english players either if you look at the likes of van ginkel and lukaku
 
Pogue Mahone said:
If anyone is looking for a scapegoat, turns out it's all ITV's fault.

Heard an incredible stat on a podcast just now.

28 years ago, ITV broadcast live and exclusive coverage of an England victory over Algeria. Since then, how many other England victories got the same coverage?
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If I remember rightly, ITV also started this ridiculous trend of screening live matches on the telly.

Spurs vs Forest I think it was.

Brian Moore - YOU are to blame. Sky have taken over football and all the money is ruining the chances for young english talent.
 
IrishLegend said:
Everyone knew this world cup would be a write off from the start.

I don't know why they didn't just fully commit to a youthful team. Stick Jones, Wilshere, Ox + Barkley on from the first minutes. Get them game time and experience. Hell a bit of youthful exuberance and pace would have done wonders.
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I completely agree with this.
 
rogey said:
what doesn't help is young english players still being naive enough to sign for chelsea and man city on good contracts short term, how many more years and examples do they need to witness these two teams ignore young players and i'm not just talking about young english players either if you look at the likes of van ginkel and lukaku
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I wonder whether there is any chance of that changing. I assume Chelsea, Man City etc pay more. Footballers are almost by default going to be quite arrogant and I dont mean that in a bad way, but self belief is essential to make it in professional sport. So footballers good enough to be considered for clubs like these are always going to back themselves to make it at the highest level. And in the back of their minds they always know that if it doesnt pan out theyll get a chance to go out on loan anyway, so they end up playing at the level they would have played at anyway, but get paid more.
 
Still gutted about last night. Wasn't too fussed about the Italy game but the way we got back into the game last night hurt me.
 
Biggest problem in England is there are not enough quality central midfielders. Majority of the brights spots play in attacking role, even at United this has been a weakness for few years now

Tunnicliffe - he is just okay
Pearson - very good potential and hope he makes it

Currently England have Henderson, Lampard, Wilshere and Gerrard for that role but none of them are true CM. They are more of attacking midfielders 'who can play deep'. Until proper central midfielders are found there is little hope for England
 
rogey said:
what doesn't help is young english players still being naive enough to sign for chelsea and man city on good contracts short term, how many more years and examples do they need to witness these two teams ignore young players and i'm not just talking about young english players either if you look at the likes of van ginkel and lukaku
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If the Ballad of Sergio Canales taught us anything...
 
fishfingers15 said:
still funny when you read it now.

This hype of 'mimicking' the Liverpool way of playing, and 'Brenton Rodgers finding a way for Hodgson' was just overdone so much. Ashley Cole should have been the first choice left back, no matter what Noodlehair thinks and throwing additional creative midfielders in the pitch against Italy and Uruguay was just plain madness. England clearly had no plan if they concede, or if they score. They just ran around without pressing too much, didn't play with patience when Uruguay gave up possession and couldn't effectively contain Italy. It's almost as if Hodgson saw Sterling in the training and thought nobody can stop this kid. Rooney on the left to accommodate Sterling in the center? Sterling played mighty well for a young guy in the team, but why force that on him? He played wide for Liverpool, why not play him again there? Apparently to counter Pirlo. Look how well that went?
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We didn't play the way we've played under Rodgers at all. Sterling did play centrally quite often for us as well and his best performances come from there.
 
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