Elon Musk | Owner of X and right wing man-child

Out of interest has anyone started buying Tesla shares yet? I want to start building a position at some point but I think the valuation is still maybe a bit rich

I've stayed away from Tesla for similar reasons. 1) overpriced and other cars potentially catching up 2) Musk's weird antics that manipulate his stocks too much. He can tweet something and the stock will nose dive or soar. Feels speculative to me.

But like yourself, I am waiting. It still might be a good buy given the prices. I'd like to see it go lower though. In summary, I'd stay away right now.
 
It's more a year or two of profits, rather than a year or two of losses. They might be one-offs, but that's part of the business no?

Not really if they're a result of getting to grips with the regulation of a business model that's still not well understood. More like teething issues. Just with scary sounding numbers to most people. But as a fraction of the value an $800m one off fine is not scary. You'd think they'll be getting more of those types of fine under Musk the way he's going.
 
Its important to note that Tesla is effectively an emissions trading company, thats where their profits come from.
 
I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole. It was always inflated due to Musk hype, and now that it is deflating because of Musk outrage (as well as a couple of other issues) there's no telling how far it may fall. The next major technical level is 120, which is a long way down from where it is now.

Yea I'm ok to wait right now as I think they will struggle a bit next year due to interest rates and recession fears.

At the moment I'm more focused on DCA into ETFs and a bit into some blue chip stocks.
 
I provided a financial chart to show it to you. Feel free to provide any data (not an opinion piece) that supports your claim that this wasn't true.
I'm not arsed trawling through the thread to find it to be perfectly honest, but someone posted data showing that Twitter had been steadily growing its revenue over the past 4/5 years, but posted losses in the last 3 due to on off large sums on their balance sheet.
 
I'm not arsed trawling through the thread to find it to be perfectly honest, but someone posted data showing that Twitter had been steadily growing its revenue over the past 4/5 years, but posted losses in the last 3 due to on off large sums on their balance sheet.

Right, well I'm going to take financial data over someone posting on a thread on a football forum.
 
Its important to note that Tesla is effectively an emissions trading company, thats where their profits come from.

If Tesla fans see this they would self combust! (pun intended)

Sick of them saying "Its a software company!!". In my personal view Tesla is a car company and that's how I price their stock. Compared to any other car company they are overpriced for me.
 
Right, well I'm going to take financial data over someone posting on a thread on a football forum.
Funnily enough, this was financial data too. I'm not basing my posts on someone making up numbers, it was cited information from Twitter's yearly financial statements.

EDIT: found the post

There are a couple of exceptions that make the results / trend seem a bit weird, but basically Twitter has been doing well financially in the last 5 years, with the exception of that covid year. They just haven’t been doing as well as the other big tech behemoths and that’s tended to shape the narrative.

The 2021 figures included an $800m settlement launched in 2016. If not for that, i.e. based on real business performance in that year, they made a substantial profit. The 2020 and 2019 figures start talking about deferred tax assets and intra-entity transfers of intangible assets so I start losing the thread a bit there, but the adjusted net income / loss figures that exclude those things paint a fairly simple picture where Twitter‘s profits in 2018, 2019 and 2021 were in the same range, and the covid hit was big but not catastrophic. They were less affected by Apple’s changes than Facebook or TikTok too, and it posted over $500m in profit in Q1 this year.

It’s obviously vulnerable to the mood of the ad industry and things like the pandemic, but people have been floating around this idea that it’s this failing company on a road to nowhere, and it needed drastic changes to become a profitable company. The line “failed to post a profit in 8 of the last 10 years” was always brought out, and few people decided to point out the second half of those 10 years were dramatically different to the first half. Hence misleading perceptions form like…





Even though by any reasonable definition, Twitter already was profitable.

Small details like an $800m settlement from a case launched in 2016 don’t tend to make it into those narratives.

2021 results are here.

2020 results are here.
 
I've stayed away from Tesla for similar reasons. 1) overpriced and other cars potentially catching up 2) Musk's weird antics that manipulate his stocks too much. He can tweet something and the stock will nose dive or soar. Feels speculative to me.

But like yourself, I am waiting. It still might be a good buy given the prices. I'd like to see it go lower though. In summary, I'd stay away right now.

Tesla is fecked for two reasons.

- The EU safety standards for self driving cars will render Teslas irrelevant. They’re already behind. The American market will get a shitter product as it always does.

- China will just copy the tech before they let Tesla to become the most popular car there.

Bottom line - their cars are cheap. 5 year old cars are already in a sorry state. The build quality is abysmal and it all feels like a Ponzi scheme.

PERHAPS the trucks change the game. But I can’t imagine that they’re best in class there. They’ll just be noisiest in Class. As with everything else.

They will become the new GM/Ford USA. Selling average cars to 300m+ people, while everyone else enjoys a better product.
 
Tesla is fecked for two reasons.

- The EU safety standards for self driving cars will render Teslas irrelevant. They’re already behind. The American market will get a shitter product as it always does.

- China will just copy the tech before they let Tesla to become the most popular car there.

Bottom line - their cars are cheap. 5 year old cars are already in a sorry state. The build quality is abysmal and it all feels like a Ponzi scheme.

PERHAPS the trucks change the game. But I can’t imagine that they’re best in class there. They’ll just be noisiest in Class. As with everything else.

They will become the new GM/Ford USA. Selling average cars to 300m+ people, while everyone else enjoys a better product.
Is this reflected in Tesla sales? As far as I know, Tesla is still selling very well.
 
Tesla is fecked for two reasons.

- The EU safety standards for self driving cars will render Teslas irrelevant. They’re already behind. The American market will get a shitter product as it always does.

- China will just copy the tech before they let Tesla to become the most popular car there.

Bottom line - their cars are cheap. 5 year old cars are already in a sorry state. The build quality is abysmal and it all feels like a Ponzi scheme.

PERHAPS the trucks change the game. But I can’t imagine that they’re best in class there. They’ll just be noisiest in Class. As with everything else.

They will become the new GM/Ford USA. Selling average cars to 300m+ people, while everyone else enjoys a better product.

weird statements about America getting the crappier product. Also, as a far guy ford and Gm make some incredible cars as long as not so amazing ones . Just as European/Japs

What are you basing this opinion on?
 
Funnily enough, this was financial data too. I'm not basing my posts on someone making up numbers, it was cited information from Twitter's yearly financial statements.

EDIT: found the post

Yeah. The simple part of the story is that Twitter’s revenue plateaued in 2015, and since then it’s been doing pretty well in terms of bringing money in. It just doesn’t compare well to the incredible returns of other big tech companies. In the first few years revenue was almost doubling each year, then it hovered at $2.2, $2.5, $2.4 (billion) up to 2016. Then it got back to steady growth; $3, $3.4, $3.7, $5. Yet as its revenue increased steadily from $3.4 to $3.7 between 2019 and 2020, it’s net profit went from $1.5 to -$1.1. That’s where things get complicated.

It’d be practically impossible for a company to see a negative $2.6 billion shift in profit in a single year while seeing an increase in revenue, unless it was doing something nuts like trying to build a new company within a company. And Twitter wasn’t.

You can see in its 2020 SEC filings on page 41 that it had increased costs between 2018-2020, but nothing dramatic. Research and development increased from $554m to $682m to $873m. Sales and marketing increased from $771m to $913m, and then pulled back to $888m. As a % of revenue, they spent less on sales and marketing in 2020 than they did in 2018. The overall cost of revenue increased from 32% to 33% to 37%, bringing together admin, sales, marketing and R&D, with most of that coming from R&D.

It’s just a couple of exceptions that made their most commonly reported figures in 2019 unusually high (from the tax deferment) and figures in 2020 unusually low (from the lawsuit payout). If you strip those out you just have a company that struggled to turn a profit for the first 5 years, then did pretty well, and then struggled a bit during the pandemic, like most closely linked to the advertising space. Clearly there was bloat, mismanagement and underperformance. But it wasn’t a disaster. It wasn’t a financial basket case. That’s just a misreading of the essential facts, and getting wrapped up in the hype. @shamans
 
Twitter's algorithm is fecked.

Daesh was trending today in France, and when you clicked the word, the 1st tweet was this guy, who opens Pokemon boosters on youtube. Why? Because his name is (David) Lafarge, like the french company that gave money to Daesh in Syria. So twitter's algorithm confused both and promoted his tweet about the fact that he quit smoking.

 
His buying of twitter will end up being viewed as beneficial for the world at some point in the future. Twitter really is an amazing platform, and its ability to reach and connect people of nearly all Earth's cultures is valuable to all of us.

People don't like what he's doing right now, but truth is it is wrong to have tech kids muzzling important people in society. And when said muzzling is done only in conjunction with one party in the US it is wrong. Wrong is wrong.

Going forward what really matters is Twitter remaining a free speech platform. Because over time politics will shift and hopefully we will see less polarizing of extreme opinions on everything and it will prove invaluable providing free speech to all who use it. In order to solve problems we must discuss them, not make them taboo like we are modern day Quakers and silence the opposing opinion. Discussion of our toughest challenges and our leaders actually getting together and solving these problems instead of blaming each other and polarizing against the other side is the way forward. If we are going to survive as a people.
 
His buying of twitter will end up being viewed as beneficial for the world at some point in the future. Twitter really is an amazing platform, and its ability to reach and connect people of nearly all Earth's cultures is valuable to all of us.

People don't like what he's doing right now, but truth is it is wrong to have tech kids muzzling important people in society. And when said muzzling is done only in conjunction with one party in the US it is wrong. Wrong is wrong.

Going forward what really matters is Twitter remaining a free speech platform. Because over time politics will shift and hopefully we will see less polarizing of extreme opinions on everything and it will prove invaluable providing free speech to all who use it. In order to solve problems we must discuss them, not make them taboo like we are modern day Quakers and silence the opposing opinion. Discussion of our toughest challenges and our leaders actually getting together and solving these problems instead of blaming each other and polarizing against the other side is the way forward. If we are going to survive as a people.

It’s like DJ Jeff, but in long form.
 
It’s like DJ Jeff, but in long form.

This thread: multiple recent posts discussing how Elon is currently using twitter to target a health policy official using conspiracy theories.

Boondog: Elon trying to create less polarisation in society.

:lol:
 
Yeah. The simple part of the story is that Twitter’s revenue plateaued in 2015, and since then it’s been doing pretty well in terms of bringing money in. It just doesn’t compare well to the incredible returns of other big tech companies. In the first few years revenue was almost doubling each year, then it hovered at $2.2, $2.5, $2.4 (billion) up to 2016. Then it got back to steady growth; $3, $3.4, $3.7, $5. Yet as its revenue increased steadily from $3.4 to $3.7 between 2019 and 2020, it’s net profit went from $1.5 to -$1.1. That’s where things get complicated.

It’d be practically impossible for a company to see a negative $2.6 billion shift in profit in a single year while seeing an increase in revenue, unless it was doing something nuts like trying to build a new company within a company. And Twitter wasn’t.

You can see in its 2020 SEC filings on page 41 that it had increased costs between 2018-2020, but nothing dramatic. Research and development increased from $554m to $682m to $873m. Sales and marketing increased from $771m to $913m, and then pulled back to $888m. As a % of revenue, they spent less on sales and marketing in 2020 than they did in 2018. The overall cost of revenue increased from 32% to 33% to 37%, bringing together admin, sales, marketing and R&D, with most of that coming from R&D.

It’s just a couple of exceptions that made their most commonly reported figures in 2019 unusually high (from the tax deferment) and figures in 2020 unusually low (from the lawsuit payout). If you strip those out you just have a company that struggled to turn a profit for the first 5 years, then did pretty well, and then struggled a bit during the pandemic, like most closely linked to the advertising space. Clearly there was bloat, mismanagement and underperformance. But it wasn’t a disaster. It wasn’t a financial basket case. That’s just a misreading of the essential facts, and getting wrapped up in the hype. @shamans

As you say yourself twitter was bloated and mismanaged. From my charts, it has been profitable only twice since 2015. It had an overpriced stock and Musk bought it pretty overpriced as well.

I haven't gone into the SEC filings you've mentioned. Point is they weren't making money the way they wanted to. As an investor, it's not a stock you would want to touch.
 
His buying of twitter will end up being viewed as beneficial for the world at some point in the future. Twitter really is an amazing platform, and its ability to reach and connect people of nearly all Earth's cultures is valuable to all of us.

People don't like what he's doing right now, but truth is it is wrong to have tech kids muzzling important people in society. And when said muzzling is done only in conjunction with one party in the US it is wrong. Wrong is wrong.

Going forward what really matters is Twitter remaining a free speech platform. Because over time politics will shift and hopefully we will see less polarizing of extreme opinions on everything and it will prove invaluable providing free speech to all who use it. In order to solve problems we must discuss them, not make them taboo like we are modern day Quakers and silence the opposing opinion. Discussion of our toughest challenges and our leaders actually getting together and solving these problems instead of blaming each other and polarizing against the other side is the way forward. If we are going to survive as a people.
Oh dear.
 
I wonder if Musk thinks he is Q, he keeps dropping cryptic messages. He really has lost his marbles
Yoel Roth, the former head of Twitter’s trust and safety division, has reportedly left his home after Elon Musk baselessly suggested he wants to sexualize children.

https://www.mediaite.com/tech/forme...-after-musk-suggested-he-sexualized-children/

Elon's well tested line of attack is to say people he doesn't like are pedo's and Qanon will eat it up. But now he owns a platform to amplify it.

Healing society one pedo allegation at a time. :wenger:
 
People don't like what he's doing right now, but truth is it is wrong to have tech kids muzzling important people in society. And when said muzzling is done only in conjunction with one party in the US it is wrong. Wrong is wrong.
I hope you realize the irony of your post.
 
His buying of twitter will end up being viewed as beneficial for the world at some point in the future. Twitter really is an amazing platform, and its ability to reach and connect people of nearly all Earth's cultures is valuable to all of us.

People don't like what he's doing right now, but truth is it is wrong to have tech kids muzzling important people in society. And when said muzzling is done only in conjunction with one party in the US it is wrong. Wrong is wrong.

Going forward what really matters is Twitter remaining a free speech platform. Because over time politics will shift and hopefully we will see less polarizing of extreme opinions on everything and it will prove invaluable providing free speech to all who use it. In order to solve problems we must discuss them, not make them taboo like we are modern day Quakers and silence the opposing opinion. Discussion of our toughest challenges and our leaders actually getting together and solving these problems instead of blaming each other and polarizing against the other side is the way forward. If we are going to survive as a people.

What about one party trying to muzzle the voters that do not support them or certain members of one party trying to overthrow a democratically elected president with violence? You're right wrong is wrong and if someone is using a platform to try to do these things then they should be banned.

Twitter does not bring people together it echoes polarizing opinions and exaggerates them. Interesting to see how the US and the world has become more and more polarized with the advent of social media. Hopefully Musk will kill twitter for good.