Douglas Costa

[Brwned]

Dunno about that. He was hyped up as a skilful speedster, with a great eye for a pass. And he showed all these attributes last season.

Unfortunately, we've only seen these skills in glimpses, usually in the first half, before he fades away. And we've also been surprised by attributes we didn't even know he had.

But I still think he might turn out just as good as he was hyped up to be. But we need to be patient.

He's spent more of his time tackling and running around without the ball than he has with it.

That's not what I expected at all.

He may turn out to be exactly what he was hyped up to be, along with some attitude and defensive ability that will help him even further to make it here, but he has played more like Fletcher than Ronaldinho in his time here.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

How can a 19 year old be played out of position?.

How silly. Do you think we can play a Rafael in center midfield or at center back for example?

He's played more games, as a pro, for United than the rest of his career put together. The position he plays for us is his best position, obviously.

Bullshit. His best position is the one that made us notice and purchase him in the first a place. A really attacking role in midfield. The one position he has played less than 3 times for us.

Does my head in when people think kids pop out of the womb with "AM" or "DM" running through their DNA.

Rather what does your head in is needless bouts of stupidity. Like claiming you can't play a 19 year old out of position.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

When Rio Ferdinand was a teenager, he played in central midfield. He's done ok "playing out of position" hasn't he?

 

[Mainoldo]

When Rio Ferdinand was a teenager, he played in central midfield. He's done ok "playing out of position" hasn't he?

I have to agree with you!! Just because thats where you start off doesn't mean thats where you will end up!!

Examples......

Diego (Striker) Midfielder
Scholes (Striker) Midfielder
Hierro (Everywhere on the pitch) Defender
Dion Dublin (Defender) Striker

You get the picture!!!

But to those who think Anderson just runs around chasing balls, thank goodness your not scouts!!

 

[x42bn6]

When Rio Ferdinand was a teenager, he played in central midfield. He's done ok "playing out of position" hasn't he?

Ferdinand made the transition early in his youth career so it's no big deal.

Anderson's done it at his developing ages and has done surprisingly well, although he still keeps his attacking traits. Which isn't a bad thing - he's the only left-sided midfielder we have that runs through the middle, which is always an option.

 

[tintedsepia]

Anderson's main qualities are passing precision - which we saw last season, running with the ball - which we saw last season, and tackling ability/tenacity, which we saw last season.

This season I haven't seen him at the top of his game. Last season he was dropped to the reserves until he mastered the stamina to play at the top of his game. This season littered with travelling to Brazil.

 

[Brwned]

Anderson's main qualities are passing precision - which we saw last season, running with the ball - which we saw last season, and tackling ability/tenacity, which we saw last season.

This season I haven't seen him at the top of his game. Last season he was dropped to the reserves until he mastered the stamina to play at the top of his game. This season littered with travelling to Brazil.

Anderson's passes are very hit and miss, so I'm not sure you could say that passing precision is one of his main qualities that we seen last season. We only seen him take on players once in every 5 matches, and although there were at least three genuine moments when it looked like he was going to take on the whole team and then score, I'm not sure you could cll that one of his main qualities on display last season because it was only glimpses of it.

He never mastered the stamina to play at the top of his game last season, he almost always ran out of steam by the 60th minute mark, if not earlier.

 

[Ekeke]

I have to agree with you!! Just because thats where you start off doesn't mean thats where you will end up!!

Examples......

Diego (Striker) Midfielder
Scholes (Striker) Midfielder
Hierro (Everywhere on the pitch) Defender
Dion Dublin (Defender) Striker

You get the picture!!!

But to those who think Anderson just runs around chasing balls, thank goodness your not scouts!!

Diego came through at Santos as a central midfielder. Robinho was the striker.

They both play on the wing at times now.

 

[Mainoldo]

Diego came through at Santos as a central midfielder. Robinho was the striker.

They both play on the wing at times now.

My Bad. Either way when he first signed for them he was a right back!

Yes i know where him and Robinho operate now. Diego doesn't spend much time on the wing though, he'll probably play inside right of a three man midfield!

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

When Rio Ferdinand was a teenager, he played in central midfield. He's done ok "playing out of position" hasn't he?

He was a defensive midfielder. Of course he could slot in there. You think you could play a Riquelme, for example, at the back if he was a teenager?

 

[SecondFig]

He was defensive midfielder. Ofcourse he could slot in there. You think you could play a Riquelme, for example, at the back if he was a teenager?

I think his point was more that a lot of players start in one position and change as they progress. Thus people saying Anderson is being played out of position are exaggerating as currently his best position is still unknown, and arguably is wherever Fergie decides to play him. It should also be remembered that we bought him just after he returned from a serious injury that kept him out for most of a year, and it may be that that has had some impact on his playing style.

Personally I'd look at it as we bought a fast skillful attacking player, and it's turned out he can also defend and work hard - bonus. Rather than, we bought the Brazilian Nicky Butt.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He was defensive midfielder. Ofcourse he could slot in there. You think you could play a Riquelme, for example, at the back if he was a teenager?

No he wasn't. You see, Football Manager wasn't invented back then

And are you seriously saying it's easier for a central midfielder to play in central defence than it is for a central midfielder to play a slightly more defensive version of the same role?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

No he wasn't. You see, Football Manager wasn't invented back then.

A post of typical ignorance from you. That term existed before Football manager was ever thought up. I bet you are amongst the dim witted gits who call it "The Makelele role"

And are you seriously saying it's easier for a central midfielder to play in central defence than it is for a central midfielder to play a slightly more defensive version of the same role?

No that's what you and your foolish logic are stating. My point is very clear. Even if you tried you wouldn't be able to get a 17 year old version of Riquelme to play well as a full back. Or a 17 year old Nicky Butt to play as a central striker or a Or a 17 year old Cristiano Ronaldo to play as a center back. Because those are not there natural positions at all.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I think his point was more that a lot of players start in one position and change as they progress. Thus people saying Anderson is being played out of position are exaggerating as currently his best position is still unknown, and arguably is wherever Fergie decides to play him.

I'm sorry but that's wide of the mark. We bought Anderson because of how he performed as an attacking midfielder. Furthermore every time we have used him in such a role he has excelled! Far more than in the role we currently use him in. It's one of the reasons he even runs out of stamina quickly. He is adjusting to a new position. Fergie just uses him in the role that suits the team best. Not in his best role.

It should also be remembered that we bought him just after he returned from a serious injury that kept him out for most of a year, and it may be that that has had some impact on his playing style.

That is rather far fetched honestly. That injury never affected Anderson's game. It's the role change that has. He has to first get sued to being a central midfielder before he can consistently start displaying the array of abilities he showed at Porto, that made respect South American based sports Journalists like Tim Vickery say he is a Ronaldinho in the making.

Personally I'd look at it as we bought a fast skillful attacking player, and it's turned out he can also defend and work hard - bonus. Rather than, we bought the Brazilian Nicky Butt.

Agreed.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

A post of typical ignorance from you. That term existed before Football manager was ever thought up. I bet you are amongst the dim witted gits who call it "The Makelele role"

No that's what you and your foolish logic are stating. My point is very clear. Even if you tried you wouldn't be able to get a 17 year old version of Riquelme to play well as a full back. Or a 17 year old Nicky Butt to play as a central striker or a Or a 17 year old Cristiano Ronaldo to play as a center back. Because those are not there natural positions at all.

Just answer my question and enough of the petty insults please. In your opinion do you think it's easier for a central midfielder to adapt to playing in central defence (which is what Rio did) than it is for a central midfielder to adapt to playing a slightly more defensive version of the same role? (which is what Anderson is doing)

It gets a bit boring when you start insulting people instead of responding to their points. It's also a surefire indicator that your argument is being pulled to shreds and you know it.

 

[Elliott]

No he wasn't. You see, Football Manager wasn't invented back then

Yes it was and Nick Barmby was the best player.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Just answer my question and enough of the petty insults please. In your opinion do you think it's easier for a central midfielder to adapt to playing in central defence (which is what Rio did) than it is for a central midfielder to adapt to playing a slightly more defensive version of the same role? (which is what Anderson is doing)

There is nothing to answer. Ferdinand was never merely a central midfielder. So attempts to equate the Anderson's role shift to Ferdinand's can't hold water.

Ferdinand was a defensive midfielder. That is why his role shift was seamless. Anderson's on the other hand is much harder. His original role is akin to that of a withdrawn forward. It is nothing like playing in the heart of a 2 man midfield. The type of conversion Scholes made is one of the hardest around. That is why Anderson from time to time looks out of his depth, looks like he can't exercise his talents to the fullest there and often loses stamina.

It gets a bit boring when you start insulting people instead of responding to their points. It's also a surefire indicator that your argument is being pulled to shreds and you know it.

Typical. What gets really annoying is you're not making any points. Just arguing for the feck of it. Yet not you want to claim you have come remotely close to shredding my arguments

Saying teenagers can't be played out of position isn't a point. Claiming defensive midfielder is a football manager term isn't one either. & that's just for starters. If you were actually making valid points I'd take your statements in here more seriously.

 

[Wonder Pigeon]

What is a point Rubber?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There is nothing to answer. Ferdinand was never merely a central midfielder. So attempts to equate the Anderson's role shift to Ferdinand's can't hold water.

Ferdinand was a defensive midfielder. That is why his role shift was seamless. Anderson's on the other hand is much harder. His original role is akin to that of a withdrawn forward. It is nothing like playing in the heart of a 2 man midfield. The type of conversion Scholes made is one of the hardest around. That is why Anderson from time to time looks out of his depth, looks like he can't exercise his talents to the fullest there and often loses stamina.

What "Scholes conversion" are you talking about? The fact he was playing as a striker when he was Anderson's age, before converting to a role in central midfield? (i.e. he's spent his whole career playing "out of position" according to your definition, anyway)

Or about him playing central midfield, the same as always, only recently sitting slightly deeper, since he hasn't had the legs to get up and down the pitch like he used to? Cause that's hardly a complete fecking re-invention of his game, now is it?

Just out of interest, as an aside, what's the evidence behind your claim that Rio played as a specialist "DM" (c) FootballManager Can you name a game you watched when he was playing in midfield? Or provide any other explanation about how you came up with this 'fact'?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

What "Scholes conversion" are you talking about? The fact he was playing as a striker when he was Anderson's age, before converting to a role in central midfield? (i.e. he's spent his whole career playing "out of position" according to your definition, anyway)

You are clearly just arguing for the feck of it. Everyoone knows Scholes was converted from a striker to a central midfielder.

Or about him playing central midfield, the same as always, only recently sitting slightly deeper, since he hasn't had the legs to get up and down the pitch like he used to? Cause that's hardly a complete fecking re-invention of his game, now is it?

Oh yes. There is no difference between playing a role just behind a striker and playing in the heart of midfield. It doesn't require a change in a player's game .

Just out of interest, as an aside, what's the evidence behind your claim that Rio played as a specialist "DM" (c) FootballManager Can you name a game you watched when he was playing in midfield? Or provide any other explanation about how you came up with this 'fact'?

I'm not going to bother. You are just playing games and fooling around. I'm not interested in playing any longer. Good bye.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

You are clearly just arguing for the feck of it. Everyoone knows Scholes was converted from a striker to a central midfielder.

Good stuff. We're clear on that now.

Oh yes. There is no difference between playing a role just behind a striker and playing in the heart of midfield. It doesn't require a change in a player's game .

Paul Scholes coped ok, didn't he? Of course, the key to making a change like this is to do it when they're young, before they fully settle into any role. In fact the ideal time to try and get a player to learn a different role - that will make the most out of his natural attributes - would be when he's played less than 30 games as a professional footballer. When he's at the same stage in his career that Anderson was, when he signed for United, for example.

I'm not going to bother. You are just playing games and fooling around. I'm not interested in playing any longer.

Is that a promise?

 

[golden_blunder]

GB, i've normally a high opinion of your posts, but this is the most ridiculous thing i've ever read.

Marcus im exagerating somewhat to prove a point regarding youtube clips - they prove nothing about anything

 

[Ekeke]

Marcus im exagerating somewhat to prove a point regarding youtube clips - they prove nothing about anything

That's really not true now is it.

If there is a youtube clip of a player creating and setting up goals it shows he can do that. It may not show you the level of the opposition or how frequently it happens (if its a player thats been around a long time for example) but it shows that its a part of their game, even if its a small part.

There are players who go almost their whole careers without scoring, a compilation without a single goal will be a good indication of that.

It will likely show you whether a player is left footed or right footed, how tall they are, how fast they are, how skillful they are. It could even show how loyal they are. If you see clips of a player at a dozen different clubs, thats a good indication that they are a journeyman or mercenary.

Youtube clips certainly dont tell you everything. But they tell you a little.

 

[Red Hand Devil]

Douglas Costa has impressed at Gremio and has been dubbed the 'jewe' of Brazilian football

Why they call him the Jew?

Think its a typo & they meant "Jewel"

 

[Count Duckula]

To be fair I'm leaning towards agreeing with the Rubberman in this argument.

Anderson's best qualities (supposedly), and the ones that made us buy him, are his attacking prowess -- something he's been unable to show in the role that he's played for us in most of the matches thus far. That's not to say he's been playing "defensive midfield" (though I have no problem at all with that term -- it seems adequate to me), but that he's been asked to play a central midfield role where his main aim is to win back the ball and be tenacious rather than run with the ball and attack.

So in that respect the Chief is entirely correct.

 

[Brophs]

To be fair I'm leaning towards agreeing with the Rubberman in this argument.

Anderson's best qualities (supposedly), and the ones that made us buy him, are his attacking prowess -- something he's been unable to show in the role that he's played for us in most of the matches thus far. That's not to say he's been playing "defensive midfield" (though I have no problem at all with that term -- it seems adequate to me), but that he's been asked to play a central midfield role where his main aim is to win back the ball and be tenacious rather than run with the ball and attack.

So in that respect the Chief is entirely correct.

Hang on, where have you heard that? That's your opinion of why we bought him, not necessarily the club's. Perhaps, and this is something which is borne out by facts, we bought him because we saw the qualities he is currently showing for us. Namely that he is tenacious, intelligent, and hard-working.

I doubt our manager is foolish enough to buy a player, and suddenly attempt to change his position, unless he had the necessary qualities to play there.

 

[Red Hand Devil]

To be fair I'm leaning towards agreeing with the Rubberman in this argument.

Anderson's best qualities (supposedly), and the ones that made us buy him, are his attacking prowess -- something he's been unable to show in the role that he's played for us in most of the matches thus far. That's not to say he's been playing "defensive midfield" (though I have no problem at all with that term -- it seems adequate to me), but that he's been asked to play a central midfield role where his main aim is to win back the ball and be tenacious rather than run with the ball and attack.

So in that respect the Chief is entirely correct.

Dig what you said Count, but Anderson is a box-to-box midfielder and dare i say it - in the Keano mould only more pace

 

[Striker10]

Dig what you said Count, but Anderson is a box-to-box midfielder and dare i say it - in the Keano mould only more pace

he's got a long way to go yet to be even compared to keane

 

[Pogue Mahone]

he's got a long way to go yet to be even compared to keane

You could compare an 8 year old kid to Keane, if the only comparison you were drawing was the type of role they play in the team. Which is basically what RHD was doing.

 

[Striker10]

You could compare an 8 year old kid to Keane, if the only comparison you were drawing was the type of role they play in the team. Which is basically what RHD was doing.

So?..

I don't think Andersons role/position is that defined and I think as a player he's nothing like keano was. He's will probably just be Anderson in 2-3 years from now. If he can find that aggression he has last season against liverpool and arsenal then sure why not

It'll be interesting how we develop him

 

[Pogue Mahone]

So?..

So Anderson doesn't have a long way to go to be compared with Keane. It's a valid comparison right now.

Sheesh...

 

[Striker10]

So Anderson doesn't have a long way to go to be compared with Keane. It's a valid comparison right now.

Sheesh...

lol I don't think so. Baring maybe 10-15 games where he's had some agression, did the box to box bit - his role is undefined and we don't know if he will keep on evolving this way or if this was just the role we wanted him to play for the here and now

maybe in 2 years he'll be the more advanced attacker with a more defensive minded person beside him giving him freedom or maybe he'll end up on the left - a role he's not impressed in as of yet - but who knows? Or maybe he'll develop in the hole and we'll all go shit! What about rooney?...

he's 20 and none of us know the player he will be in 2/3 years time let alone 7/8

We see it all the time. Wes brown centre back? Full back. Scholes Striker? Attacknig Midfielder Giggs Winger? Midfield going back to Mcclair Striker? Midfielder Phil Neville fullback? Mr versetile O'shea central defender, full back, midfielder, striker, goalkeeper? sub

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

.......
I doubt our manager is foolish enough to buy a player, and suddenly attempt to change his position, unless he had the necessary qualities to play there.

Man, having the qualities to play in a particular position and it being your best position are not remotely the same things.

Anderson obviously has the qualities to play in center midfield. Or Fergie wouldn't play him there. Is it his best or most natural position however? Hell no. It doesn't show his best qualities as an attacking player. Qualities he showed before he came to United and in the 2 games we have used him in the role.

But do we need him in central midfield? Hell yes! That is why he plays there! & as Fergie says eventually he will be able to replace Scholes. But he has to get completely used to the role first. Before he can start doing what he used to do when he played just behind the strikers/striker. That's all people like me are saying. People should stop holding it against him and aqainst those of us who mentioned his "Ronaldinhoness" that he isnt' showing those qualities currently.

 

[Spoony]

I have to agree with you!! Just because thats where you start off doesn't mean thats where you will end up!!

Examples......

Diego (Striker) Midfielder
Scholes (Striker) Midfielder
Hierro (Everywhere on the pitch) Defender
Dion Dublin (Defender) Striker

You get the picture!!!

But to those who think Anderson just runs around chasing balls, thank goodness your not scouts!!

Scholes was a midfielder in the youth team. He only played striker for handful of games early on in his career(in the first team), I think.

As for Anderson, I thought he was a completley different type of player after seeing a few Youtube clips, prior to him signing for us. He's turned out to be more of a robust midfielder. Goes to show that you can't really judge by watching a few youtube clips.

 

[Merman]

I fecking love Anderson in his current role.

 

[tilo]

How can a 19 year old be played out of position?

He's played more games, as a pro, for United than the rest of his career put together. The position he plays for us is his best position, obviously.

Does my head in when people think kids pop out of the womb with "AM" or "DM" running through their DNA.

I agree its really about the balance of attributes.

For me Anderson is the only player in world football who has the potenial to make a monster like Essien appear like a four year old boy.

The kid has everything needed to dominate the centre of midfield like no one ive seen before.

All he lacks in my opinion is the absolute desire to kill that sets people like Keane apart.. If SAF can instill some more drive and that "Fletcheresque" will to compete for every ball. He will lord it over everyone in the game at the moment...

It is a big if but for me he is probably our biggest talent outside of Wayne...

 

[Ekeke]

I agree its really about the balance of attributes.

For me Anderson is the only player in world football who has the potenial to make a monster like Essien appear like a four year old boy.

The kid has everything needed to dominate the centre of midfield like no one ive seen before.

All he lacks in my opinion is the absolute desire to kill that sets people like Keane apart.. If SAF can instill some more drive and that "Fletcheresque" will to compete for every ball. He will lord it over everyone in the game at the moment...

It is a big if but for me he is probably our biggest talent outside of Wayne...

I agree actually. If we were to go the route of developing him into a definitive Keane-like player he has the potential to be amazing at it. Better than as an attacking player, due to his physicality on and off the ball and his speed and effort in the middle. Will obviously need to keep improving his positional play and tackling, but that may be easier to do than to get him scoring 10-15 goals a season like some had hoped.

 

[Gabe]

When Anderson played in the U17 World Cup finals, he came in second for goals scored, 4 goals iirc, pretty good for a midfielder and he was playing more wide on the right, he scored one belter from well outside the box I remember.
So the goal potential is probably there, I don't think he could play AM if he didn't have a shot on him.
Something he has that Scholes doesn't is a burst of pace, that's a major weapon to have in central midfield, where Scholes has that quick spin and release, Anderson has the ability to power past players. He's also very hard to shift off the ball.
It would nice to see him chip in with a few more goals though, also maybe he could work on right side a little, because he does look very one sided sometimes.
Very good young player overall, CM is a demanding position, there's movement 360 and considering his age, and the increasing standard of the PL, he's doing very well imo.

 

[Gabe]

Re: Douglas Costa, he's not got any european ancestry unlike the twins and Possebon, so getting a work permit would be more difficult probably. Maybe spending 20m should automatically qualify him as a special talent.

 

[Makki]

he scored one belter from well outside the box I remember.

You must be mistaken. You have to be able to shoot to do that.