[Dansk]

Donny and Sancho really are a bit of a mystery. Two players who were excellent at their previous clubs, signed for relatively high fees, and go directly to the bench. Sancho has had some minutes but not so many that you could write him off already. Donny has hardly played at all. Unless they're utterly horrendous in training, it's really hard to justify. If you sign a player for a considerable sum, surely you bring him out for at least a few games to see how he does, even if his performances in training haven't impressed.

There are players who don't excel in training but bring it in front of a crowd. I recall hearing of several top players who were notorious for it, such as Michael Laudrup. It's difficult to interpret this in any other way than the manager handling his new transfers poorly. It's one thing if the player gets a handful of games and is woeful, but that hasn't been the case. Sancho hasn't been amazing but he certainly wasn't the worst of them the few times he has played, and Donny has had one game in the league cup (where the whole team was dire) and one half in the CL. Six fecking minutes in the league. You can't even begin to write a player off after that little time on the pitch. It takes at least three times that amount before you can possibly start to judge him based on performances. It feels more as if Ole doesn't like the cut of his jib or something.

One of these players has yet to get a full 90 minutes. The other has had one and then nothing since. Their performances were nowhere near bad enough to explain any of this. They've been fairly average in a team where almost no one has played well two weeks in a row. It looks a lot more like sheer mismanagement to me.

 

[pocco]

Not what I said at all. Wan Bissaka was clearly Oles player as he plays nearly every game and I'm not his biggest fan.

Maguire plays. AWB plays. Bruno plays. Even Dan James played a lot before leaving. Donny doesn't. Stop the difference.

He was quite obviously not Oles man.

I don't think there's anything obvious about it. The club have been very trusting of Ole so it would be odd that they went and signed just 1 player against his wishes and he just pretend he didn't exist. I don't think Ole would genuinely do that to the club even if they signed him, and I don't think the club would have done that to Ole.

Had there ever actually been a time that any manager of ours has claimed the club signed a player they didn't want? LVG and Jose had issues with a) signing 5th choice players in every position, and b) not signing players at all.

There's no proof that we've done that, as far as I recall. Besides, I just don't think VDB would be talking about his discussions with Ole if they never happened. That would just be weird.

 

[moses]

Long time no see. Control. I like it. Very post punk.

Ah you know me, effortlessly hip.

 

[Bilbo]

Ironically this new system could be Donnys best chance of getting into this team

 

[Ali Dia]

86 pages for his performance thread

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I don't think there's anything obvious about it. The club have been very trusting of Ole so it would be odd that they went and signed just 1 player against his wishes and he just pretend he didn't exist. I don't think Ole would genuinely do that to the club even if they signed him, and I don't think the club would have done that to Ole.

Had there ever actually been a time that any manager of ours has claimed the club signed a player they didn't want? LVG and Jose had issues with a) signing 5th choice players in every position, and b) not signing players at all.

There's no proof that we've done that, as far as I recall. Besides, I just don't think VDB would be talking about his discussions with Ole if they never happened. That would just be weird.

It is obvious. You just don't want to admit it.

LVG and Jose have both suggested that the club signed players that weren't their choice. Shaw and Herrera were signed and sealed before LVG took over for example because they were already being scouted.

You don't treat your summer major 2020 signing this way if he was your man. Nobody would. So that's obviously not Oles player.

We have cretins running this club and our fans don't realise this.

 

[pocco]

It is obvious. You just don't want to admit it.

LVG and Jose have both suggested that the club signed players that weren't their choice. Shaw and Herrera were signed and sealed before LVG took over for example because they were already being scouted.

You don't treat your summer major 2020 signing this way if he was your man. Nobody would. So that's obviously not Oles player.

We have cretins running this club and our fans don't realise this.

I don't think it's obvious at all. I think it's you that doesn't realise we probably just have a managerial dunce in charge.

My guess is he was somewhere on Oles list, we couldn't get anybody else and he signed off on it. Similar to LVG, but he didn't get his preferred 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice in any position, as he claimed.

Look at the unwavering backing Ole gets from the club. I think they'd be less inclined to do that if they signed a player for £40m that they thought was potentially very good and he just didn't give him a chance at all.

And not only that, Ole has a chance to sell him, he wanted to go, yet Ole convinced him to stay. It's clear as day. Ole just has a hard on for stockpiling good players to give himself the best chance, with little thought for squad rotation or harmony. He's doing the same with Lingard, Bailly and possibly Sancho. He has his first 11 and won't deviate unless he's absolutely forced to. At which point he wants some guy who's been sat on the bench every game for months to come in.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I don't think it's obvious at all. I think it's you that doesn't realise we probably just have a managerial dunce in charge.

My guess is he was somewhere on Oles list, we couldn't get anybody else and he signed off on it. Similar to LVG, but he didn't get his preferred 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice in any position, as he claimed.

Look at the unwavering backing Ole gets from the club. I think they'd be less inclined to do that if they signed a player for £40m that they thought was potentially very good and he just didn't give him a chance at all.

And not only that, Ole has a chance to sell him, he wanted to go, yet Ole convinced him to stay. It's clear as day. Ole just has a hard on for stockpiling good players to give himself the best chance, with little thought for squad rotation or harmony. He's doing the same with Lingard, Bailly and possibly Sancho. He has his first 11 and won't deviate unless he's absolutely forced to. At which point he wants some guy who's been sat on the bench every game for months to come in.

So Ole really wanted Donny and asked the club to sign him and then just benches him for just about every player imaginable? Even players who want to leave or who we loaned out last season.

And you think what you're saying is more plausible? Hahahaha.

Donny was clearly not his player. No manager does this to a player they were desperate to join. Not a single one.

You can't see past your Ole hatred to admit I'm right.

 

[sillwuka]

Maybe just maybe, Donny is awful in training.

 

[Forevergiggs1]

So Ole really wanted Donny and asked the club to sign him and then just benches him for just about every player imaginable? Even players who want to leave or who we loaned out last season.

And you think what you're saying is more plausible? Hahahaha.

Donny was clearly not his player. No manager does this to a player they were desperate to join. Not a single one.

You can't see past your Ole hatred to admit I'm right.

So between VDBs own words that Solskjaer convinced him to sign and Solskjaers own words that no player comes into the club without his say so you know for a fact he wasn't a Solskjaer signing? I'm a little more than confused.

 

[Still ill]

Ah you know me, effortlessly hip.

Good to see you're still around, buddy. Reminds me of a simpler time, when everyone in here used to wear flat caps and braces and leave the back door on the latch. Good luck moderating in these turbulent times.

 

[lsd]

No manager is going to refuse to give a player a chance if that player was forced upon him by the club especially if the player costs 40 million.

You cannot go looking for money to sign any other player after doing that. Nor can you expect to keep your position if that's how you treat your employer

It's like if you are managing an office and your boss send you a new member of staff without telling you.

You go find that person something to do and ensure that if it didn't work out it does not come back to anything you did.

You do not send the person home never too be seen again as everytime you see your boss they are going to say how is it working out?

Ole clearly wanted Donny but quickly discovered he didn't know what to do with him and how to fit him in and is now pretending he doesn't exist

 

[dal]

Not what I said at all. Wan Bissaka was clearly Oles player as he plays nearly every game and I'm not his biggest fan.

Maguire plays. AWB plays. Bruno plays. Even Dan James played a lot before leaving. Donny doesn't. Stop the difference.

He was quite obviously not Oles man.

Agreed.

 

[pocco]

So Ole really wanted Donny and asked the club to sign him and then just benches him for just about every player imaginable? Even players who want to leave or who we loaned out last season.

And you think what you're saying is more plausible? Hahahaha.

Donny was clearly not his player. No manager does this to a player they were desperate to join. Not a single one.

You can't see past your Ole hatred to admit I'm right.

Yes, because Bruno is officially the most overused player in the world. He plays every game, no matter what. Bruno gets injured, you'll see Donny given every chance.

 

[pocco]

No manager is going to refuse to give a player a chance if that player was forced upon him by the club especially if the player costs 40 million.

You cannot go looking for money to sign any other player after doing that. Nor can you expect to keep your position if that's how you treat your employer

It's like if you are managing an office and your boss send you a new member of staff without telling you.

You go find that person something to do and ensure that if it didn't work out it does not come back to anything you did.

You do not send the person home never too be seen again as everytime you see your boss they are going to say how is it working out?

Ole clearly wanted Donny but quickly discovered he didn't know what to do with him and how to fit him in and is now pretending he doesn't exist

Exactly. Ole of all people wouldn't do that. The club would be seriously annoyed at him if he basically embarrassed them like that.

VDB literally said Ole convinced him yet we've got his deluded fans here trying to say it's all a lie. You couldn't make it up.

 

[Thiagoal]

I genuinely think DVB was bought as a backup to Bruno. Bruno was so ridiculously productive since he joined us Ole probably thought he’d need serious cover in the event of an injury to our most productive player. Bruno, however, seems to be extremely resilient (touch wood) and basically plays every game. Add to that Lingard playing so well for West Ham, I just don’t think he’s needed any more (in Oles mind) but he wants to keep him just in case!

 

[Foxbatt]

I genuinely think DVB was bought as a backup to Bruno. Bruno was so ridiculously productive since he joined us Ole probably thought he’d need serious cover in the event of an injury to our most productive player. Bruno, however, seems to be extremely resilient (touch wood) and basically plays every game. Add to that Lingard playing so well for West Ham, I just don’t think he’s needed any more (in Oles mind) but he wants to keep him just in case!

so lets keep Jones too just in case. why didn't we keep Fellaini just in case we need some height and some heading power?

 

[skc_18]

Midfield isn't just about being press-resistant. Infact, apart from Southhampton, I didn't see many instances where we have been pressed all that much. But I guess you mean that DVBs technical level is way higher than the one of McFred so more unlikely to make mistakes and thats probably true.

I feel its been a problem not just this season, last season too. Our midfield's and defense's achilles heel has been pressing from opponent. Our game plan has been counter-attack/park the bus. Also, if opponent presses higher up the pitch, we used to counter which worked most cases (except for Liverpool game ) If we are leading with 1-0 and have 20 mins to play, there is no way we will hold the possession comfortably, no matter how small the opponent team is.
We did have good possessions few games last season, but most of those games were after conceding the goal early and opponent team parking the bus. And to be honest, those were the games(where we conceded early) we played better because opponent gave some space after scoring.

 

[croadyman]

May as well go and join Conte at Spurs in January but truth be told he should have chose them in the first place

 

[Ayoba]

Looking at Ole's comments, looks like vdb will not be playing anytime soon:

"We don't have time for anybody to sulk, if you're not in the starting XI, you are there to support your team-mates". Link

We should let him go in Jan, 18 months of your career rotting away because the manager doesn't know how to use you and now is deliberately leaving you on the bench to prove a point.

 

[Bilbo]

Looking at Ole's comments, looks like vdb will not be playing anytime soon:

"We don't have time for anybody to sulk, if you're not in the starting XI, you are there to support your team-mates". Link

We should let him go in Jan, 18 months of your career rotting away because the manager doesn't know how to use you and now is deliberately leaving you on the bench to prove a point.

What point is he proving exactly?

 

[Ayoba]

What point is he proving exactly?

He spat his chewing gum out when he realised he wasnt going to come on, I think it was against villareal.

He hasnt played a single minute since. Now Ole comes up with "We don't have time for anybody to sulk, if you're not in the starting XI, you are there to support your team-mates"

Its clear that Ole felt the need to stamp his authority after the villareal incident, that much is clear by his quotes. Does that help?

 

[Bilbo]

He spat his chewing gum out when he realised he wasnt going to come on, I think it was against villareal.

He hasnt played a single minute since. Now Ole comes up with "We don't have time for anybody to sulk, if you're not in the starting XI, you are there to support your team-mates"

Its clear that Ole felt the need to stamp his authority after the villareal incident, that much is clear by his quotes. Does that help?

I think we have to try to understand Donny's mindset here. Last season didn't go well for him and he obviously concluded that he was coming up short physically in this league because he put on some extra muscle over the summer. That's a positive sign. A player looking at his own shortcomings and doing something about that is what you want to see.

Since then though we've seen lots of signals that his frustration has gotten the better of him. Interviews that he has agreed to and public displays of frustration are, in the heat of the moment, probably fine. This is an emotional job to have. By extension though it's also quite likely that he is behaving behind the scenes in a way that is actually making him unpickable now, so he is compounding the issue. If Ole's quotes are directed at Donny then it's a huge red flag. You cannot afford to have negative people in a group.

 

[MadDogg]

So Ole really wanted Donny and asked the club to sign him and then just benches him for just about every player imaginable? Even players who want to leave or who we loaned out last season.

And you think what you're saying is more plausible? Hahahaha.

Donny was clearly not his player. No manager does this to a player they were desperate to join. Not a single one.

You can't see past your Ole hatred to admit I'm right.

He obviously wasn't Ole's first choice (we know that was Grealish), but there's a big grey area between "I'm desperate to sign this guy" and "I don't want this guy at all". Once Villa didn't get relegated and priced Grealish out of the move, we looked at our other options and obviously VDB was the one we settled on. Ole definitely would have been part of that decision making process.

The start of VDB's first season was the classic case of a new player being bedded in. He was starting pretty much all of the cup games and coming on as a sub in most league matches. Quite normal for anybody who doesn't hit the ground running. What is also quite normal (from the management side of things) is that as he was very poor and almost cowardly in the way he played in almost all of those matches, his chances dried up as he dropped further and further down the pecking order. Chances are his training performances weren't impressive either.

As I've said before I do think he's been hard done by this season (his own performances have improved while the performances of the midfielders ahead of him have tanked), but I'm not sure if that's Ole being too cautious with his team selection or if he is punishing VDB for his 'attitude' of being visibly annoyed at not getting to play. Personally I think it's a bit of both. What I highly doubt is that it's Ole refusing to play him because he himself didn't want that signing. If that were the case I'd expect Ole to have given him that treatment right from the start.

 

[MattofManchester]

I think we have to try to understand Donny's mindset here. Last season didn't go well for him and he obviously concluded that he was coming up short physically in this league because he put on some extra muscle over the summer. That's a positive sign. A player looking at his own shortcomings and doing something about that is what you want to see.

Since then though we've seen lots of signals that his frustration has gotten the better of him. Interviews that he has agreed to and public displays of frustration are, in the heat of the moment, probably fine. This is an emotional job to have. By extension though it's also quite likely that he is behaving behind the scenes in a way that is actually making him unpickable now, so he is compounding the issue. If Ole's quotes are directed at Donny then it's a huge red flag. You cannot afford to have negative people in a group.

That's very unfair. If you were going to leave your company because you could get better prospects elsewhere, and your employer refused, promising you a promotion, then several months later, you figure out you've been lied to, while someone else who does not possess your skills gets the promotion instead, you'd be pretty fecking pissed.

 

[I'm David Moyes damnit]

If we’re 3-0 up with 5 minutes to go and DVB is asked to come on, I honestly wouldn’t hold it against him if he refuses.

If we’re 3-0 up with 10-20 minutes to go and he doesn’t come on, I honestly wouldn’t hold it against him if he has a tantrum and storms out of the stadium.

Has he been good enough in his United career so far? No. Has he been given the right conditions to grow and prosper within the team? No, with a “hellz” preceding it.

I wouldn’t normally condone lack of professionalism from a United player, but should this occur then I’m happy to make an exception here.

 

[NZT-One]

That's very unfair. If you were going to leave your company because you could get better prospects elsewhere, and your employer refused, promising you a promotion, then several months later, you figure out you've been lied to, while someone else who does not possess your skills gets the promotion instead, you'd be pretty fecking pissed.

I would get the example without the bolded part? Who in our case is the promoted one? I guess you are talking of one of the two midfielders that were more or less the starting eleven a few weeks after Donny joined and have kept that place since then.

 

[Gandalf]

If we’re 3-0 up with 5 minutes to go and DVB is asked to come on, I honestly wouldn’t hold it against him if he refuses.

I would. I don't care how he thinks he has been treated, pull a stunt like that and I would fine him the maximum, drag him in the media and block the sulky little twat from playing again until his contract expires.

 

[Tibs]

I would. I don't care how he thinks he has been treated, pull a stunt like that and I would fine him the maximum, drag him in the media and block the sulky little twat from playing again until his contract expires.

That kind of stuff makes me of a statement if the manager is doing well, and we're winning trophies. Ole's average at best, and I don't think any of us are ready to bet our houses that we're going to win a trophy neither.

 

[SteveCoppellFan]

Ole needs to stamp his authority on someone because he is the manger and supposed to be the boss, so he chooses Donny's little outburst of emotion to make him an example of.

Ronaldo walking off having a hissy ... no thats ok because Ole does not have the backbone to say anything to Ronaldo or many others for that matter.

How many of these players are turning in rubbish performances on virtually a weekly basis and yet Ole just keeps on picking them.

I was a huge fan of Ole as a footballer and I'd like nothing more than him being a success as a United manager but he's really starting to overstay his welcome and things are going to turn sour for him.

It pains me to say it, but he's a gutless manager with virtually no skillset to manage a club this size.

 

[Waynne]

Yep

Thanks for reply. I will be happy for Ole to stay until the summer if the club has his replacement lined up. It seems based on some reports that this is the situation currently at the club.

 

[Nick7]

Changed the game. What a player. MOTM.

 

[Terranova]

I'm genuinely shocked, he got minutes

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Didn’t do much in 5 minutes... That’s another 6 months on the bench.

 

[lawliet354]

Done more in 5 minutes than whatever Mctominay's done since last month

 

[arnie_ni]

Almost won it

 

[Ali Dia]

MOTM

 

[SirAnderson]

Very good coming on, surely should get a start and more than that a run of games.

 

[bond19821982]

He misplaced a pass to Ronaldo. Okay play for reserves until New year.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Almost got a goal in 4 min. Not sure what he has to do to play. I think he hasnt played 90 min this season