[bond19821982]

Where is your belief, man? I fully expect to see the best of our team vs the current top 3. We always turn up for the top teams and look ridiculous against the lower teams. And not one of them is invincible. Mark my words, we will hit our stride and be right amongst it come December. Who knows, Donny might even get a game! (Just to keep it on topic )

Ole had great record first year but last year was pretty average against top 6 because teams knew how to play us. I expect the same or worse this year. We hardly create any chance and with Ronaldo, we can't sit back either. When you have James, Rashford and Martial as your front 3, it's easy to play against top 6. Now we have Sancho, Ronaldo and Rashford / Mason.

 

[VP89]

Romano goes on his show

So? Romano hasnt said anything.

 

[FatTails]

Where is your belief, man? I fully expect to see the best of our team vs the current top 3. We always turn up for the top teams and look ridiculous against the lower teams. And not one of them is invincible. Mark my words, we will hit our stride and be right amongst it come December. Who knows, Donny might even get a game! (Just to keep it on topic )

That’s a myth at this point. Last season, in the mini league of only “top 6” teams, we were the second worst team, only having a better record than Spurs.

We won 2 games (City and Spurs away), drew 5 (Arsenal away, Chelsea home and away, City at home, Liverpool Away), and lost 3 (Spurs, Liverpool and Arsenal, all at home).


We got 11 points from said games. Liverpool got 20 and City 17. Even Arteta’s Arsenal got 13 points from the games against the other traditional top 6 teams.

 

[clarkydaz]

So? Romano hasnt said anything.

Really

 

[VP89]

Really

O

 

[RedRonaldo]

You're kidding with this post, right? His performance against West Ham was great. He gave us what we desperately needed - retaining possession, controlling the game, making forward passes:



It is the first time we looked convincing in anything. In the Young Boys game he performed very well in a deeper position, as well. And it was no wonder we collapsed after he was subbed. Also, I don't know where this nonsense comes off that McFred are better than him in breaking play and tackling. Donny showcased more of that in a single game than McFred have for an entire season. We never looked threatened at all in that West Ham game. Yes, we were absolutely toothless up front because Ole had the bright idea to rotate our entire attack, but we dominated that game and for once our midfield wasn't bypassed like a walking pole. Why not try for more of that?

And as far as the goal for West Ham, if I remember correctly Donny was actually compensating for Matic not guarding his man. Okay, it was his fault he rushed forward for the ball and the ball had a nasty deflection, but it wasn't his positioning that was the problem. Ole is just too negative for a player like Donny, there is nothing more to this story. We sell him and watch him tear it up with another manager that actually knows what to do with him, but at this point that is for the better because Ole is clueless on the matter and we're wasting money and Donny is wasting his time.

IMO this is easily the best midfield performance from any of our midfielders this season. Don’t know why Ole doesn’t play him more, maybe he doesn’t suit Ole game style? Who doesn’t have any football style btw.

 

[EtH]

IMO this is easily the best midfield performance from any of our midfielders this season. Don’t know why Ole doesn’t play him more, maybe he doesn’t suit Ole game style? Who doesn’t have any football style btw.

Yeah agreed. And he was criticized as much as he was praised here for that performance. It’s baffling. As others have said seems he has to put in spellbinding displays to even be regarded as decent.

 

[flappyjay]

Even our Instagram admin omitted him.

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Is he in the Dutch squad this week?

 

[Terranova]

he isn't playing here, so no Dutch squad for him anymore

 

[VanDeBank]

Is he in the Dutch squad this week?

Nope. He doesn't play so he won't get selected. A few others get a pass despite not playing (Wijnaldum & Ake), probably because they were part of the last squad and are harder to replace.

 

[Ayoba]

https://www.skysports.com/football/...-dutchmans-days-at-manchester-united-numbered

 

[KirkDuyt]

Nope. He doesn't play so he won't get selected. A few others get a pass despite not playing (Wijnaldum & Ake), probably because they were part of the last squad and are harder to replace.

Wijnaldums's situation is hardly the same though. He's been benched lately but at least gets subbed on.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I struggle to remember a more pointless signing in the history of Man Utd.

 

[2cents]

I struggle to remember a more pointless signing in the history of Man Utd.

Yeah, has he actually made a bigger impact than, say, Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson or Liam Miller? I’d say no.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah, has he actually made a bigger impact than, say, Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson or Liam Miller? I’d say no.

He’s had a hell of a lot less minutes, that’s for sure. Although goals/minutes played probably better than all of them.

What makes it so frustrating is that he’s looked decent on the very rare occasion he gets a chance.

 

[Ali Dia]

Yeah, has he actually made a bigger impact than, say, Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson or Liam Miller? I’d say no.

No he definitely hasn’t. He’s a better player than any of them though.

My feelings on it now are he must have been a data science or a Murtough transfer and Ole just doesn’t fancy it. What I don’t get is why we didn’t let him leave during the summer if that’s the case.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I'd love to know the logic behind signing him.

- was he seen as a Pogba replacement?
- did the manager want him?
- was it opportunism in that van der Sar picked up the phone to Woodward and fans were quite discontent with the lack of transfer movement at the time?

I'd be inclined to believe it was just that.

 

[VanDeBank]

Wijnaldums's situation is hardly the same though. He's been benched lately but at least gets subbed on.

They've both played one and a half games since mid September. Klaassen something like that too. Our Messiah brought up he played Gini despite coming back from injury in 2014, so he won't drop him as easily.

 

[2cents]

He’s had a hell of a lot less minutes, that’s for sure. Although goals/minutes played probably better than all of them.

What makes it so frustrating is that he’s looked decent on the very rare occasion he gets a chance.

I just don’t see it really, he doesn’t seem to have any attributes I’d associate with a good quality midfielder.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I just don’t see it really, he doesn’t seem to have any attributes I’d associate with a good quality midfielder.

He’s got way more than the other blokes you mentioned!

I think his movement is good. Always available and doesn’t stand still to admire a pass after he plays it. Plus he gets up and down the pitch well. He’s got a few rough edges but you’d hope they would improve as he beds into the team. Which looks like it might never happen. And I find that hard to understand given our obvious weakness in the position he plays.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Though he is underrated and under appreciated here. I’ve seen him playing well this season in CM (double pivot role).

 

[HailtotheKing]

I just don’t see it really, he doesn’t seem to have any attributes I’d associate with a good quality midfielder.

What, you mean like intelligence, composure, resistant to the press, technique, commitment?
That’s baffling statement to make mate.

If you mean he’s not 6’ 4” like McTominay and hides from the ball, yeah you’re right, he’s not that.

How anyone can even make statements about VDB when he’s rarely played a proper match with the first team and most of the times he has played he’s looked levels above McTominay and Fred. He’s been man of the match. He was many peoples man of the match in his last game against West Ham where we actually controlled the midfield. I just don’t get it. He’s never been given a chance let’s just accept it. And because of that we can’t really judge him. At best we can say well Ole doesn’t see anything in him. And if you back Oles judgement then you have blind faith that he’s no good. And if you question it, you don’t understand why he hasn’t been given a chance especially when McTominay was coming off an injury and played 3 games in a week and was crap In all of them. That alone should make you question Ole.

Ole has done a lot of things right but he’s also done a lot of things wrong. Repeatedly. Maybe this was one of them. I guess we’ll never know. Because unlike flops like Djemba djemba, Liam Miller, Kleberson et al, he’s never really played to enable us to judge him.

 

[2cents]

What, you mean like intelligence, composure, resistant to the press, technique, commitment?
That’s baffling statement to make mate.

If you mean he’s not 6’ 4” like McTominay and hides from the ball, yeah you’re right, he’s not that.

How anyone can even make statements about VDB when he’s rarely played a proper match with the first team and most of the times he has played he’s looked levels above McTominay and Fred. He’s been man of the match. He was many peoples man of the match in his last game against West Ham where we actually controlled the midfield. I just don’t get it. He’s never been given a chance let’s just accept it. And because of that we can’t really judge him. At best we can say well Ole doesn’t see anything in him. And if you back Oles judgement then you have blind faith that he’s no good. And if you question it, you don’t understand why he hasn’t been given a chance especially when McTominay was coming off an injury and played 3 games in a week and was crap In all of them. That alone should make you question Ole.

Ole has done a lot of things right but he’s also done a lot of things wrong. Repeatedly. Maybe this was one of them. I guess we’ll never know. Because unlike flops like Djemba djemba, Liam Miller, Kleberson et al, he’s never really played to enable us to judge him.

Please don’t mistake my post for praise of McTominay, Fred, or Solskjaer. I’d actually like to see VDB start (probably alongside Matic) more often ahead of our two regulars in there. Our options are dreadful.

As for the attributes you mention, I guess I can concede that, yes, he looks like he has a bit of composure and intelligence about him occasionally, especially further up the pitch. He hasn’t shown them to any outstanding degree (or if he has I’ve missed it), certainly not enough to suggest they compensate for what he appears to be lacking in central midfield. The rest you mention I just haven’t seen anything that stands out.

If he left now my abiding memory of him would probably be him, back to goal with arms stretched out in front of him calling for the pass, surrounded by three opposition players, and being ignored.

 

[KirkDuyt]

They've both played one and a half games since mid September. Klaassen something like that too. Our Messiah brought up he played Gini despite coming back from injury in 2014, so he won't drop him as easily.

Yeah lately fair enough, but Klaassen(edit: I meant Donny, Curse these interchangeable 10s) hasn't really played football at all for over a year.

I think Wijnaldum is on the way out though mind you. I just really do not rate Donny. Til starting on the other hand... Also not exactly a world beater

 

[11101]

What, you mean like intelligence, composure, resistant to the press, technique, commitment?
That’s baffling statement to make mate.

If you mean he’s not 6’ 4” like McTominay and hides from the ball, yeah you’re right, he’s not that.

How anyone can even make statements about VDB when he’s rarely played a proper match with the first team and most of the times he has played he’s looked levels above McTominay and Fred. He’s been man of the match. He was many peoples man of the match in his last game against West Ham where we actually controlled the midfield. I just don’t get it. He’s never been given a chance let’s just accept it. And because of that we can’t really judge him. At best we can say well Ole doesn’t see anything in him. And if you back Oles judgement then you have blind faith that he’s no good. And if you question it, you don’t understand why he hasn’t been given a chance especially when McTominay was coming off an injury and played 3 games in a week and was crap In all of them. That alone should make you question Ole.

Ole has done a lot of things right but he’s also done a lot of things wrong. Repeatedly. Maybe this was one of them. I guess we’ll never know. Because unlike flops like Djemba djemba, Liam Miller, Kleberson et al, he’s never really played to enable us to judge him.

No he hasn't. He's had some nice flashes here and there but he doesn't play with any intensity or directness, he often fades in and out of the games he has played. That's ok in Europa League and Cup games but the PL is a much faster and more aggressive competition.

We know what we get from McTominay and Fred, it's serviceable. They can handle the pace of the league. The risk with an unknown like DVB is that he can't, and there are more signs pointing to that than there are suggesting he will tear the league up. His stats do not suggest he's the answer. He keeps the ball a bit better than them but that's because he makes less key passes and takes fewer risks, his completion % is actually worse than them despite all that. In the other direction he makes less defensive actions than either of them. So why exactly should he be getting in the team ahead of them?

I would like to see him get a go but I totally understand why we don't play him.

 

[Gandalf]

No he definitely hasn’t. He’s a better player than any of them though.

My feelings on it now are he must have been a data science or a Murtough transfer and Ole just doesn’t fancy it. What I don’t get is why we didn’t let him leave during the summer if that’s the case.

I think the simple answer to the bolded part is that we need a back up. Ole prefers McFred as his starting pair in midfield and will also rotate Matic and Pogba in there but he needs an insurance policy in case of injuries and suspensions. I get why we would not let Donny move on loan when it was clear the club were not going to get a new central midfield player this summer as that would risk us being left short if our midfield suffered a run of luck comparable to Liverpool and their Centre Backs last year. It is unfortunate for the player in the backup role in that if everyone stays fit you will barely see the pitch but you can just as easily find yourself starting 30+ games if others are unlucky. From the perspective of the club though, that player has to be retained or you will pay the price if the worst happens.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I'd love to know the logic behind signing him.

- was he seen as a Pogba replacement?
- did the manager want him?
- was it opportunism in that van der Sar picked up the phone to Woodward and fans were quite discontent with the lack of transfer movement at the time?

I'd be inclined to believe it was just that.

I think people are overthinking it. Did United see it as an opportunity? I’m sure they did. Did the transfer board green light it? obviously. Did Ole veto it? obviously not.
So all things normal up until he arrived, I’m sure Ole trust his scouts and the other members of the transfer board, but when he arrived and Ole saw him in person, he clearly doesn’t rate him.

Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Cheimoon]

I think the simple answer to the bolded part is that we need a back up. Ole prefers McFred as his starting pair in midfield and will also rotate Matic and Pogba in there but he needs an insurance policy in case of injuries and suspensions. I get why we would not let Donny move on loan when it was clear the club were not going to get a new central midfield player this summer as that would risk us being left short if our midfield suffered a run of luck comparable to Liverpool and their Centre Backs last year. It is unfortunate for the player in the backup role in that if everyone stays fit you will barely see the pitch but you can just as easily find yourself starting 30+ games if others are unlucky. From the perspective of the club though, that player has to be retained or you will pay the price if the worst happens.

That's something I liked about Van Gaal: he intentionally left some spaces empty in the squad so that promising young players would get serious opportunities, rather than always having their paths blocked by older players that are purely there for the bench (i.e., the club already knows they'll never be starters). I mean, surely there is someone in United's academy that's looking good enough to be at least serviceable in DM (but might turn out a revelation) in case they're really needed?

 

[Gandalf]

That's something I liked about Van Gaal: he intentionally left some spaces empty in the squad so that promising young players would get serious opportunities, rather than always having their paths blocked by older players that are purely there for the bench (i.e., the club already knows they'll never be starters). I mean, surely there is someone in United's academy that's looking good enough to be at least serviceable in DM (but might turn out a revelation) in case they're really needed?

I would agree. Personally I would have loaned Donny to Everton to see if he could find his feet in the PL and I would have kept Garner at the club although I do understand the club thinking a youth player would get more benefit from playing regularly on loan. The smart option might have been to loan Donny til January to get him up to speed and keep Garner back and then effectively switch them around in that window so both get some time. With a new Manager at Forest we might end up doing that in reverse if Cooper does not include Garner in his starting line up which he did not in the last game.

 

[VanDeBank]

That's something I liked about Van Gaal: he intentionally left some spaces empty in the squad so that promising young players would get serious opportunities, rather than always having their paths blocked by older players that are purely there for the bench (i.e., the club already knows they'll never be starters). I mean, surely there is someone in United's academy that's looking good enough to be at least serviceable in DM (but might turn out a revelation) in case they're really needed?

Van Gaal was great at playing terrible, young players and minimizing the damage. It's probably his coaching style and his experience managing in Holland (and as a PE teacher). Most managers would drop a lot more points than he did playing Blackett, Goss, Weir, McNair, etc in the PL.

I can see how it would be more risky for Ole to play an academy kid over VDB. Besides, we can afford to have 4th choice players lying around and such is the state of football. Sucks for VDB, but all the big clubs are scared they run into situations like Liverpool last season.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Hopefully a confidence builder tonight.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Hopefully a confidence builder tonight.

Oops. Meant for the Sancho thread.

 

[EtH]

Poor guy is just rotting.

 

[OleBoiii]

Why is he not getting any minutes for the Dutch national team anymore? Is the Dutch midfield really that stacked? Genuine question, as I don't know much about their current players.

 

[Andersonson]

He’s had a hell of a lot less minutes, that’s for sure. Although goals/minutes played probably better than all of them.

What makes it so frustrating is that he’s looked decent on the very rare occasion he gets a chance.

Pr season he has almost identical minutes played as them. So thats not correct. Kleberson looked just as decent as him and that tells us everything

 

[2cents]

Pr season he has almost identical minutes played as them. So thats not correct. Kleberson looked just as decent as him and that tells us everything

I can vaguely remember two things from Kleberson’s time with us - assisting someone with a backheel (may not have happened), and starting against Fenerbahçe on Rooney’s debut.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I think people are overthinking it. Did United see it as an opportunity? I’m sure they did. Did the transfer board green light it? obviously. Did Ole veto it? obviously not.
So all things normal up until he arrived, I’m sure Ole trust his scouts and the other members of the transfer board, but when he arrived and Ole saw him in person, he clearly doesn’t rate him.

Nothing more, nothing less.

Pretty bang on the money. There's so many conspiracy theories about his transfer, but the truth is likely far more in-line with what you wrote.

 

[VanDeBank]

Why is he not getting any minutes for the Dutch national team anymore? Is the Dutch midfield really that stacked? Genuine question, as I don't know much about their current players.

He isn't playing so he doesn't get a call up. LVG values match fitness and the difference between the current midfielders and VDB isn't big enough to get over that hurdle.

De Jong and Wijnaldum are prefilled on the team sheet. Klaassen has been great for Holland. There's also the talented Gravenberch, Feyenoord's top scorer Til and 2 Atalanta DMs, De Roon and Koopmeiners.

 

[::sonny::]

Barca, Juve and other clubs ready to take him in January.

If i was him I would ask a transfer request (to leave as a free agent, contract resolution) and stop to go to the training ground