[clarkydaz]

And he came back bulked up start of the season

 

[mu4c_20le]

Exactly, sounds a bit like bullshit. His work rate was always one of the things he was praised for, and he's clearly not slower than Matic and Scott.

This is a bs leak.

Funnily enough, of all the leaks that are coming out, this is one of the most plausible. Besides the fact that it's coming from an athletic journo, it also perfectly explains why he hasn't been played. His technique and passing is fine, he's just not suited to the league.

The most damning indictment is that he's not even being tried by Rangnick.

 

[VanDeBank]

Funnily enough, of all the leaks that are coming out, this is one of the most plausible. Besides the fact that it's coming from an athletic journo, it also perfectly explains why he hasn't been played. His technique and passing is fine, he's just not suited to the league.

The most damning indictment is that he's not even being tried by Rangnick.

First of all, I only commented on the "can't cover ground" bit.

It's complete bullocks. He was known for his work rate, for his countless runs into the box and his defensive work as an attacking midfielder. It stood out at Ajax. Other PL players like Ziyech were known for being far more lazy.

VDB also displayed over the international break in 2020 when he was a United player where I watched the guy make numerous runs into the box and make a last minute clearance inside his own box.

The eye test and the stats just don't back up. Grandpa Matic is also picked. I like Matic, and dont rate VDB that much. But if you think it has anything to do with legs and fitness, look again.

 

[peridigm]

Only logical explanation for not selling Donny now is that we have ETH all but agreed to take the job and he wants him to partner new incoming midfielders whomever they may be.

 

[lex talionis]

Only logical explanation for not selling Donny now is that we have ETH all but agreed to take the job and he wants him to partner new incoming midfielders whomever they may be.

That may not be the only logical explanation, but I hope it’s the true explanation. The club and the squad need an overhaul, and given the dozen or so players whom we know with reasonable certainty will be gone this summer, having ETH mastermind the overhaul would the smartest thing United have done for a very long time.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

First of all, I only commented on the "can't cover ground" bit.

It's complete bullocks. He was known for his work rate, for his countless runs into the box and his defensive work as an attacking midfielder. It stood out at Ajax. Other PL players like Ziyech were known for being far more lazy.

VDB also displayed over the international break in 2020 when he was a United player where I watched the guy make numerous runs into the box and make a last minute clearance inside his own box.

The eye test and the stats just don't back up. Grandpa Matic is also picked. I like Matic, and dont rate VDB that much. But if you think it has anything to do with legs and fitness, look again.

I agree with the above especially the bolded part, and physically VdB is bigger than players like Moutinho for example, and from his time here I didn't sense he lacked energy and wasnt able to get about in the field and cover the ground, he might not be high quality CM/DM like KdB or Fabinho, or even maybe not good enough to play for United, but in terms of physical ability, he isn't tiny or weak or anything like that so I don't buy the excuse mentioned in the Athletic, I just think Ole and now maybe RR think he is just not better than McTominay, Fred or Matic, hence why is below them in the picking order.

 

[mu4c_20le]

First of all, I only commented on the "can't cover ground" bit.

It's complete bullocks. He was known for his work rate, for his countless runs into the box and his defensive work as an attacking midfielder. It stood out at Ajax. Other PL players like Ziyech were known for being far more lazy.

VDB also displayed over the international break in 2020 when he was a United player where I watched the guy make numerous runs into the box and make a last minute clearance inside his own box.

The eye test and the stats just don't back up. Grandpa Matic is also picked. I like Matic, and dont rate VDB that much. But if you think it has anything to do with legs and fitness, look again.

Matic can control a game better than VDB ever will, lets be honest. "Struggling to cover the ground" suggests to me that he isn't good enough defensively, that he's struggling to keep with the pace of the game, which does explain why he seems to disappear in the matches when he actually gets a start. Again, it just makes more sense to me than the silly theories like how there's some backroom conspiracy to keep him down and away from the pitch. Comes from a solid source as well, which I trust more than fans' eye tests tbh.

 

[Gandalf]

That may not be the only logical explanation, but I hope it’s the true explanation. The club and the squad need an overhaul, and given the dozen or so players whom we know with reasonable certainty will be gone this summer, having ETH mastermind the overhaul would the smartest thing United have done for a very long time.

United don't generally do smart and sadly I think ETH is a non starter since Rangnick arrived as they have differing philosophies and I cannot imagine them co-existing well together. I think Poch is practically nailed on and if for some reason he is not available then get ready for the Jesse March era.

 

[Polar]

I've read in recent articles about the divide in the players camp at the club, that VdB is seen by the coaches as a player who's technique is pristine but in training he struggles to cover the ground during training sessions, hence why RR is not selecting him for PL games since his arrival.

For once I’m 100% behind the managers. DVB doesn’t have enough presence in his play to make it in United. Good work rate is only one of many skills a player need in order to cover ground in PL. He doesn’t cover ground good enough defensively because he lacks physical drive, speed and aggression.

I don’t think DVB ever will be a hit in PL, but I do not rule out that he will become a hit in Italy or Spain.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Refusing to accept that Donny van de Beek isnt good enough and still not just moving him on is very weird for such a big club. Donny is a nice lad and I feel sad for him, but just put him out of his misery. He's shit.

 

[Red Dreams]

Ralf has been full of praise for Donny.
Want to see what happens.
Don't think he is one of the 11.

 

[VanDeBank]

Matic can control a game better than VDB ever will, lets be honest. "Struggling to cover the ground" suggests to me that he isn't good enough defensively, that he's struggling to keep with the pace of the game, which does explain why he seems to disappear in the matches when he actually gets a start. Again, it just makes more sense to me than the silly theories like how there's some backroom conspiracy to keep him down and away from the pitch. Comes from a solid source as well, which I trust more than fans' eye tests tbh.

This is a loose interpretation that would make sense.

My point still stands though. It's not his workrate and if that was what the leak implies it's just false. It's like saying Fred runs less and is slower than Matic. Bull.

Can't really argue with the stats. It's easily quantifiable.

 

[Sviken]

Matic can control a game better than VDB ever will, lets be honest. "Struggling to cover the ground" suggests to me that he isn't good enough defensively, that he's struggling to keep with the pace of the game, which does explain why he seems to disappear in the matches when he actually gets a start. Again, it just makes more sense to me than the silly theories like how there's some backroom conspiracy to keep him down and away from the pitch. Comes from a solid source as well, which I trust more than fans' eye tests tbh.

The only two games we've ever controlled this season were with VDB in midfield. Old man Matic can barely cover his space, let alone control a game.

United don't generally do smart and sadly I think ETH is a non starter since Rangnick arrived as they have differing philosophies and I cannot imagine them co-existing well together. I think Poch is practically nailed on and if for some reason he is not available then get ready for the Jesse March era.

First off, ETH and Rangnick differ about as much as any manager differs from the previous one at every club that has ever existed. That's a non-argument, especially since Rangnick binned Hasenhuttl in favour of a way more patient possession oriented coach in Nagelsmann. Second, Rangnick isn't in charge of United, he doesn't get to decide those things. He might have some influence and etc, but the decisions rest with the CEO and DOF of the club, as well as the board as a whole.

 

[Terranova]

Matic can control a game better than VDB ever will, lets be honest. "Struggling to cover the ground" suggests to me that he isn't good enough defensively, that he's struggling to keep with the pace of the game, which does explain why he seems to disappear in the matches when he actually gets a start. Again, it just makes more sense to me than the silly theories like how there's some backroom conspiracy to keep him down and away from the pitch. Comes from a solid source as well, which I trust more than fans' eye tests tbh.

You mean he's having trouble with the pace of the game that is usually lower than the pace Ajax usually plays(well atleast in the CL)? McTominay hides behinds opponents, Matic is barely able to move and Fred is well Fred. The reasons mentioned are just weird and depending on the meaning of struggling to cover the ground, plain wrong and even seem to apply to the other midfielders

 

[DON’T PANIC ™]

Just play him the next 3/4 games and if he’s worse than McT then case closed.
No one has seen enough of him on the pitch to judge properly.

 

[lex talionis]

United don't generally do smart and sadly I think ETH is a non starter since Rangnick arrived as they have differing philosophies and I cannot imagine them co-existing well together. I think Poch is practically nailed on and if for some reason he is not available then get ready for the Jesse March era.

United do tend to do the anti-smart thing, that's for sure. (Moyes, Fellaini...through extending Ole's contract.) But I don't track the logic of how Rangnick could not coexist with ten Hag. But then again, there may well be subtleties in these relationships I have no idea about.

 

[Gandalf]

United do tend to do the anti-smart thing, that's for sure. (Moyes, Fellaini...through extending Ole's contract.) But I don't track the logic of how Rangnick could not coexist with ten Hag. But then again, there may well be subtleties in these relationships I have no idea about.

Primarily it is about the competing philosophies. The current competing ideas that dominate the game are the high intensity press and the domination of possession, Klopp being the poster boy for the first and Pep the guru of the latter. RR is seen as the architect of the modern German pressing style of play and so you would imagine if he is going to be setting up the team and involved in choosing his successor in the dugout he will be looking for a coach who matches that philosophy and by definition that is not ETH who is very much from the Pep school of thought.

 

[Satsuma United]

Another talent like Sancho who needs a system around him. We could be wasting 2 amazing talents because we didnt sign the right manager.

 

[lex talionis]

Primarily it is about the competing philosophies. The current competing ideas that dominate the game are the high intensity press and the domination of possession, Klopp being the poster boy for the first and Pep the guru of the latter. RR is seen as the architect of the modern German pressing style of play and so you would imagine if he is going to be setting up the team and involved in choosing his successor in the dugout he will be looking for a coach who matches that philosophy and by definition that is not ETH who is very much from the Pep school of thought.

I get that, but what I suppose I’m unsure of what Ralf’s portfolio as “consultant” would actually be. What’s most likely is that in order to entice Ralf away from his previous job as manager of Lokomotiv Moscow (which, by the way, it appears he was widely criticized for fukking up a decent squad) for an interim manager role we had to assure him of a job of some kind after he completed his work as interim manager. In other words, it’s at not clear whether Ralf will be in a position to destroy ETH’s vision if he were hired as manager.

And I’m not sure that it actually isn’t a good idea for a manager to be held accountable to internally on his vision. José had a vision but thank the gods that Ed didn’t cave in to all of Jose’s demands. What we want is a manager whose philosophy the club buys into but that the director of football, which Ralf may or may not effectively be, ensures is adhered to within the parameters of business principles. If Ralf objects to the hiring of ETH but the board go ahead, I would hope the board has the good sense of not allowing Ralf to undermine the new manager.

 

[Sviken]

Primarily it is about the competing philosophies. The current competing ideas that dominate the game are the high intensity press and the domination of possession, Klopp being the poster boy for the first and Pep the guru of the latter. RR is seen as the architect of the modern German pressing style of play and so you would imagine if he is going to be setting up the team and involved in choosing his successor in the dugout he will be looking for a coach who matches that philosophy and by definition that is not ETH who is very much from the Pep school of thought.

That's simply not true, they're not competing philosphies. Klopp and Guardiola's playstyle is much the same. Both are very intensely pressing teams and both teams have the highest possession stats in the league. Klopp hasn't played the "gegenpress" (that is, recover the ball, attack immediately) since his early Dortmund days probably. No top team can win games on the trot, let alone win a league without controlling football matches. Even in SAF's extremely energetic style we dominated the league in possession.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

So it is the training. As I expected. But surely should be sold if he hasn’t shown any improvement in training for a year and half.

 

[crossy1686]

So it is the training. As I expected. But surely should be sold if he hasn’t shown any improvement in training for a year and half.

I was going to say this. He must just be absolutely shit in training if he can't get a game at all. In all fairness this should have been identified and dealt with earlier.

 

[The Corinthian]

Strange Ralf hasn’t given him a try as one of the 10s in the 4-2-2-2. Hopefully he gets a few starts in the coming weeks.

 

[Gandalf]

That's simply not true, they're not competing philosphies. Klopp and Guardiola's playstyle is much the same. Both are very intensely pressing teams and both teams have the highest possession stats in the league. Klopp hasn't played the "gegenpress" (that is, recover the ball, attack immediately) since his early Dortmund days probably. No top team can win games on the trot, let alone win a league without controlling football matches. Even in SAF's extremely energetic style we dominated the league in possession.

Klopp's team has high possession stats because they are a brilliant team but the focus of their playing style is not ball retention it is a product of how excellent they are in a system that has become second nature to them. I am not saying that ETH is definitely not the next manager but the appointment of RR would suggest that in keeping with our years long mutual flirtation he is the bridge to us finally consumating things with Poch who is a much closer fit with the style Rangnick prefers. I should state, I absolutely hope I am wrong as I want ETH here even more than I want to wake up next to Scarlett Johansen tomorrow.

 

[VanDeBank]

Klopp's team has high possession stats because they are a brilliant team but the focus of their playing style is not ball retention it is a product of how excellent they are in a system that has become second nature to them. I am not saying that ETH is definitely not the next manager but the appointment of RR would suggest that in keeping with our years long mutual flirtation he is the bridge to us finally consumating things with Poch who is a much closer fit with the style Rangnick prefers. I should state, I absolutely hope I am wrong as I want ETH here even more than I want to wake up next to Scarlett Johansen tomorrow.

Liar.

 

[Marcus]

Just a random comment. One of Donny's greatest assets is the correct weight of pass. How often have we been crying out for that in the final third?

 

[united for life]

Just a random comment. One of Donny's greatest assets is the correct weight of pass. How often have we been crying out for that in the final third?

Probably every single person on planet earth, except for manchester united’s coaching staff, think he can offer more than all other midfielders at the club.

 

[Marcus]

Probably every single person on planet earth, except for manchester united’s coaching staff, think he can offer more than all other midfielders at the club.

Sadly.

 

[stoinz]

Then just let him go. We are ruining a person's career and burning bridges with Ajax. Remember the nice letter VDS wrote when he came over and so many well wishes from his Ajax teammate. Think any young talent must be thinking twice before joining us.

 

[lex talionis]

Just a random comment. One of Donny's greatest assets is the correct weight of pass. How often have we been crying out for that in the final third?

This is a club that brought in Marouane Fellaini. We appear to have very little interest in players who are adept at passing.

 

[FrankDrebin]

He's going to start, I can sense it.

 

[SonyaCross493]

With Scotty suspended against Villa in the league if he doesn't get a chance then he never will.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Then just let him go. We are ruining a person's career and burning bridges with Ajax. Remember the nice letter VDS wrote when he came over and so many well wishes from his Ajax teammate. Think any young talent must be thinking twice before joining us.

If Ajax really cared about him they'd give us back the 40m

 

[horsechoker]

40 mil down the drain

Van De Beek benched again

 

[space]

I really thought he would start today - this is just cruel

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I wonder if Monaco are interested in VDB. Could do cash + player swap.

 

[Sviken]

This is genuinely becoming one of the most bizarre things i've seen at the club. You would think we have prime Scholes-Zidane as a midfield duo, so it's justified, but we have Fred and McTominay and you get back down to earth. I mean SAF gave Bebe more starts and I'd hardly have considered him a footballer.

 

[redshaw]

He does look like a golden retriever, maybe Ralf thinks he's the club's pet dog or something.

 

[Witchking]

Crazy that someone like Mctominay can still start ahead of DVB. Something is not right here.

 

[united for life]

With Scotty suspended against Villa in the league if he doesn't get a chance then he never will.

it will be matic-fred