[Champ]

Kagawa comparison is spot on, just floats through a game without ever really grabbing it by the scruff of the neck.

Thought he played some neat passes last night but like a few other players, just doesn't seem to want the ball enough.

Compared to someone like Bruno for example, who has been getting criticism on here, Bruno nearly always makes an impact on games, last night he made a difference as soon as he came on. Donny doesn't seem capable of that impact alas.

 

[Newtonius]

Kagawa comparison is spot on, just floats through a game without ever really grabbing it by the scruff of the neck.

Thought he played some neat passes last night but like a few other players, just doesn't seem to want the ball enough.

Compared to someone like Bruno for example, who has been getting criticism on here, Bruno nearly always makes an impact on games, last night he made a difference as soon as he came on. Donny doesn't seem capable of that impact alas.

Yeah its almost like he is low on confidence and doesn't fit how we play, wonder why.

 

[SeanyC]

A run of games is what’s needed and not as a No.10 but as a 6…then I believe we will see if quality better. He’s a good player, possible brilliant player in there somewhere just waiting to come out and show us!

 

[Real Name]

Made some neat, quick passes and his movement was good but was generally invisible. Him being in the team and when Bruno came on is night and day.
New manager needs to find him some kind of role or a system in which he could wok in.

 

[Kostov]

He can never replace Bruno, his best bet is trying to play his way in front of McT and Fred, I think he can contribute way more than those 2.

 

[Freak]

Went into hiding. Which is a shame after his performance against Watford. Thought he would build on it but Bruno came on and showed how much better he is compared to Donny.

 

[Siorac]

It’s not a terribly complicated problem to work out to have Bruno and Donny playing together. Yes, that would mean dropping McTominay but that’s like dropping a turd…you just do it.

If McTominay were a magnificent holding mid then you play him and drop Fred, but we get nothing out of McFred.

Yeah, it should be obvious.

Donny doesn't offer too much as a 10 - he doesn't have the individual quality to be the sort of roaming playmaker/second striker in the Bruno way. Playing as a 10 painfully highlights how much of a system player he is but even in a system more suited to his strengths I'd rather have Bruno there.

However, there is absolutely no reason not to play him instead of McTominay. He is neat and tidy on the ball, progresses it well from deep, covers a lot of ground, always available for a pass: these are very good qualities for a deeper midfielder, and McTominay lacks pretty much all of these.

 

[JJ12]

Why isn’t he ever tested in a midfield 2?

He’s nowhere near Bruno as a 10 and I actually think his skill set would be more suited as 6/8.

 

[BuzzKillington]

Think it’s hard to judge him on that last night. All three cm’s struggled in the first half as did the forwards. Villarreal ran their socks off to ensure there was no space allowed in the midfield. Our spurt in the last part of the game coincided with them dropping the pace a little as you’d expect after the first 60 mins. We’ll need more than eternal rondo’s to make our midfield onwards more press resistant.

 

[Greck]

Didn't know much about him before we signed him but thought he was an attack minded central midfielder rather than attacking midfielder. His talents to me looked like an ability to retain possession, keep it simple, effective and flowing. Those types won't be the difference between winning and losing but can raise the ceiling of good teams, especially in possession. They also look like luxury players in no system setups. If the next manager really is Pochettino I have hopes his perceived value is about to experience a huge boost. Managers that coach possession tend to love these types.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

He deserves chances, but it's for sure not ahead of Bruno. They aren't in the same class tier as players. As part of the other 2 midfielders sure, but as a 10 he doesn't get involved at all. He played 40 minutes more than Bruno, but they had the same amount of touches today basically (and Bruno did far more with those touches). Bruno's movement off the ball was for more useful to us as well.

I hope Van de Beek comes good as a #8... but I don't really see it, past being a useful squad player. He's not as good as Fred in that position, and not as good as Bruno as a 10 (or most advanced player in a midfield 3).

To be fair, Villareal decided to drop off once Bruno & Rashford came on, I watched a bit of BT's Des Kelly interview with Emery, Emery mentioned that even if he does not know what tactics Carrick will deploy, he still knows the players, he name checked, Ronaldo, Bruno & Rashford, he said that he plans to cutoff the connection between Bruno & Ronaldo, so probably once he realized that Bruno is coming on, he instructed his team to drop off, because of that Bruno had some space to pass and spread the play a bit, unlike the 1st half, where Villareal pressed aggressively high up the pitch and the team could not get any sort of control in Villareal's half or in the middle, and we also didn't press in the 1st half, we mostly stood off.

But I agree that Bruno is a miles better #10, but VdB should still be given further chances as #8, he wasn't any worse than Fred or Martial or CR7 in that 1st half, Only Sancho played with more purpose than anyone else.

 

[11101]

He needs regular playing time. This is thie first time in a very long time he has played two games in a row for longer than 5 mins.

He's not going to get regular playing time if he doesn't justify it when he does get on the pitch. We're not in a league where we can have him coast through 5 or 10 games just to find his rhythm, if he can't do it quicker than that he might as well leave in January because it will never work out here.


For everybody saying it's not fair to judge him as a 10. In the first half we lined up as a 433 with him in his ideal centre midfield role...he still did nothing.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah, it should be obvious.

Donny doesn't offer too much as a 10 - he doesn't have the individual quality to be the sort of roaming playmaker/second striker in the Bruno way. Playing as a 10 painfully highlights how much of a system player he is but even in a system more suited to his strengths I'd rather have Bruno there.

However, there is absolutely no reason not to play him instead of McTominay. He is neat and tidy on the ball, progresses it well from deep, covers a lot of ground, always available for a pass: these are very good qualities for a deeper midfielder, and McTominay lacks pretty much all of these.

Yeah, agreed. He’s a huge downgrade on Bruno in that advanced role but (potentially) an upgrade on McT further back. Hopefully he gets a chance in that role soon.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

He's not going to get regular playing time if he doesn't justify it when he does get on the pitch. We're not in a league where we can have him coast through 5 or 10 games just to find his rhythm, if he can't do it quicker than that he might as well leave in January because it will never work out here.


For everybody saying it's not fair to judge him as a 10. In the first half we lined up as a 433 with him in his ideal centre midfield role...he still did nothing.

The whole team did nothing, totally stood off, Villareal had around 70% possession, not much playing from the back, De Gea lumped it long to CR7 and the team could not win second balls that much, unfair to expect Donny to take control of the middle when the whole team was set to defend only.

 

[Marcus]

I am one of his biggest supporters but he was quite quiet today. Maybe he was playing to instructions to not lose possession? I don't know.

 

[BrilliantOrange]

I doubt this is gonna go well at #10 with Fred/McT behind him.. People will going to expect creativity and play making from him.. Thats not the player he is.. If you have a playmaker like Frenkie/Verrati or something it could work, but not like this. There is no creativity in this midfield and people will expect Donny to be the one to bring it..

This wont go well...

I suspected upfront this wasnt gonna go well.. Donny at 10 is a player that stays away from the ball initially. That only works when you have (like Ajax) players like Blind / Frenkie behind the ball to bring the ball forward. From there on - in the final third of the pitch Donny has the potential to be a very good player for a very good side. When you play McTom behind him the ball wont get in the final third easily and Donny is not the player than to step outside of the shadows and fill the gap.

I only give him a chance in the current side at 8 in stead of one of McTom. He can become a very good box to box player who also provides passing and quick rotation of the ball.

But in the current squad he is just not a #10.

 

[Champ]

Yeah its almost like he is low on confidence and doesn't fit how we play, wonder why.

Bit like the majority of our players then.

Doesn't seem to have affected Sancho, thats how a player grabs a game and makes an impact.

VDB will need to show a lot more to warrant getting the game time many feel he deserves.

 

[Member 109952]

I really don't understand all the clamouring for him, he's played 40+ games for us and 99% of them he's just coasted by, gets the ball, passes it to the nearest man, rinse repeat. A random goal doesn't change that. I think somewhere along the way criticism of Ole became mixed with clamouring for VDB, but from what he's shown so far he just doesn't have much to his game.

 

[red_de_pologne]

He played really well in McTominay's role against Watford, then he is thrown to a No 10with McFred behind him. There's a reason Bruno also has a lot of quiet games with that midfield behind him. When Rashford came on Villareal dropped deeper which allowed Bruno to play in a more attacking role, it was a different game before, and Bruno would look similar to DVB in that first half.

 

[JG3001]

He's not going to get regular playing time if he doesn't justify it when he does get on the pitch. We're not in a league where we can have him coast through 5 or 10 games just to find his rhythm, if he can't do it quicker than that he might as well leave in January because it will never work out here.


For everybody saying it's not fair to judge him as a 10. In the first half we lined up as a 433 with him in his ideal centre midfield role...he still did nothing.

Literally the reason why the manager has been sacked, seems everyone but Donny gets tons of games to show how shite they are.

Before he eventually got dropped, Sancho was dire at the start of the season, yet the early performance thread posts would have you believe he was the best thing since sliced bread.

Seems the Ole hangover persists with DVB, he convinced his fanboys that he’s a waste of space.

He won’t be the next Scholes, but he’s far more useful than most give him credit for, especially when some of the competition includes McTominay, Fred and Matic.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Ghost mode for him last night

28 touches
1 dribble
1 tackle
0 shots
0 key passes
0 interceptions
3 dispossessions
1 unsuccessful touch

 

[Roux]

Thought he did just fine - he'll only improve with more consecutive games

 

[Stack]

I am one of his biggest supporters but he was quite quiet today. Maybe he was playing to instructions to not lose possession? I don't know.

The clip after the game of him and Carrick seemed to indicate to me that Carrick was letting him know he was pleased with how he played, might be as you say he was playing to some specific instruction.

 

[Bebestation]

1. Bruno is our most important player in terms of creativity and tempo to the team, we saw this yesterday
2. VDB needs to play in the same team as Bruno for him to be able to play one two passes and moves
3. More importantly this requires a CDM like Matic, the only CDM that can balance Bruno and VDB in the same team - or likewise Bruno and Pogba etc

Our replacement for Matic - a pure CDM is very important.

 

[11101]

He played really well in McTominay's role against Watford, then he is thrown to a No 10with McFred behind him. There's a reason Bruno also has a lot of quiet games with that midfield behind him. When Rashford came on Villareal dropped deeper which allowed Bruno to play in a more attacking role, it was a different game before, and Bruno would look similar to DVB in that first half.

No he wasn't. I don't understand why people keep saying that. He was in a 3 with McTominay as the deepest player. It was only in the second half we moved to 4231 with him as a 10 and he was subbed after 20 minutes of that.

 

[Marcus]

The clip after the game of him and Carrick seemed to indicate to me that Carrick was letting him know he was pleased with how he played, might be as you say he was playing to some specific instruction.

Yeah I was thinking he was told to play it safe and keep things compact. Then let Bruno come on to unlock the game with greater risk/reward.

 

[eire-red]

He's a continuity player, so knew he was going to struggle with McFred behind him. Bruno always wants the ball, whereas DvB seems to prefer to take up pockets of space and wants to arrive onto situations, rather than be the creator.

Play him deeper in a 3, and I think you see a different player as part of a midfield trio, rather than the sole link between midfield and attack. Clearly that's not his game.

 

[MrBest]

He's not going to get regular playing time if he doesn't justify it when he does get on the pitch. We're not in a league where we can have him coast through 5 or 10 games just to find his rhythm, if he can't do it quicker than that he might as well leave in January because it will never work out here.


For everybody saying it's not fair to judge him as a 10. In the first half we lined up as a 433 with him in his ideal centre midfield role...he still did nothing.

I do not necessarily agree with that. As an example, Rooney used to get injured and would take 10 games to get back in tune. Now i know the league is different to what it was 10 years ago but the principle is players need game time, not a handful of minutes to find rhythm. Donny has not really played football in 15 months, i am not sure what people expect him to do in a cameo. He was fantastic on saturday when he came on. Yesterday he lost in his position because he was not supported by McFred. The moment Carrick changed the game was when he changed formation and brougt on Rashford. This pushed Villareal back and allowed us to press and counter. If donny had stayed on, i am sure he would have had a mich different influence. The other thing is that Mctominay is not a starter, yet he starts. He gets regular mins in this team, has had chance after chance but is still playing. Donny has played about 300 minutes this season out of possibly 1500 or more. How on earth can someone always make someone happy with very little opportunity? 2 starts, 1 45 min appearance and the rest 1 to 5 mins here and there. The game is over most of the time he comes on.

 

[MrBest]

I suspected upfront this wasnt gonna go well.. Donny at 10 is a player that stays away from the ball initially. That only works when you have (like Ajax) players like Blind / Frenkie behind the ball to bring the ball forward. From there on - in the final third of the pitch Donny has the potential to be a very good player for a very good side. When you play McTom behind him the ball wont get in the final third easily and Donny is not the player than to step outside of the shadows and fill the gap.

I only give him a chance in the current side at 8 in stead of one of McTom. He can become a very good box to box player who also provides passing and quick rotation of the ball.

But in the current squad he is just not a #10.

Honestly, this is the perfect explanation. I wrote something similar to a response moments ago saying Donny was not supported by McFred which left huge holes in our play. Unless we have a midfielder who brings the ball out, Donny is useless at 10 and more suited to 8 which he showed on Saturday in Scotts role, he can actually pass the ball.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

I said to my mates before the game, you will see tonight why he has barely started. I was correct. Anonymous and poor.

 

[captaincantona]

Donnys best bits always happen around Sancho and his one touch lay offs. It’s why Sancho has also also suffered and why Mata never really had the impact we hoped for, Kagawa looked lost, Mhiki to a certain extent and why I fear for Amad....all would look different in teams that relied on more intricate passing patterns and patient build up.

We are direct..and individualistic...players like Rashford and Greenwood and Ronaldo and Martial are not necessarily suited to more intricate play and want to get forward quickly and shoot. It’s why we hear more about Elanga coming through then say Shoretire.

I think the right coach could get all those players singing off the same hymn sheet and that would be a frightening attacking line up. For now, Donny and Sancho look like fish out of water.

 

[lex talionis]

Yeah, it should be obvious.

Donny doesn't offer too much as a 10 - he doesn't have the individual quality to be the sort of roaming playmaker/second striker in the Bruno way. Playing as a 10 painfully highlights how much of a system player he is but even in a system more suited to his strengths I'd rather have Bruno there.

However, there is absolutely no reason not to play him instead of McTominay. He is neat and tidy on the ball, progresses it well from deep, covers a lot of ground, always available for a pass: these are very good qualities for a deeper midfielder, and McTominay lacks pretty much all of these.

Agreed, although I'd like to suggest that there are different types of 10s. When Bruno is in top form he's an incredibly dynamic 10 who can make something out of nothing. Donny can also play the 10, but unlike Bruno he cannot make something out of nothing. He's a system guy as you (and many others) say and under Ole we had no system whatsoever. I don't like piling on Ole but the wheel he steered was rudderless and relied entirely on improvisation by his attacking players, which Donny isn't suited to. But whoever takes us forward will put together a system of play, presumably giving Donny a structure within which he and Bruno the platform to create scoring chances.

But Bruno is going nowhere, he is a natural 10, and Donny will thrive if given the chance in an 8 role. We just can't have McTominay play other than during an injury crisis or garbage time.

 

[AltiUn]

I know we've not seen loads of him for United, but he just does not look like a #10 at all to me.

 

[Bobski]

I know we've not seen loads of him for United, but he just does not look like a #10 at all to me.

He is the Dele Ali version of a 10, an attacking poacher who moves the ball quickly and gets into good positions. At Ajax, Ziyech, De Jong and Tadic were the creative force with Donny working off them.

Lots wanting Donny and Bruno but the concerns around that are obvious, Donny wants to move into forward spaces, Bruno run everywhere, we don't have a DM who can balance that out.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

Lots wanting Donny and Bruno but the concerns around that are obvious, Donny wants to move into forward spaces, Bruno run everywhere, we don't have a DM who can balance that out.

I don't disagree with the point of the team needing a quality & competent DM, but i think Bruno & Donny can play together, Bruno can still be creative in a disciplined Midfield role similar to what KdB or B.Silva do at times with City, with Donny also being disciplined in his timing to go into open spaces high up the pitch.

Ole allowed too much freedom to Bruno, perhaps a new coach will utilize Bruno differently, for me Bruno excels at 2 things, his killer final pass, and his shooting from outside the box, he has other strengths like his work rate, so he might work well together with someone who keep possession with short passing, like Donny

 

[Chesterlestreet]

No he wasn't. I don't understand why people keep saying that. He was in a 3 with McTominay as the deepest player. It was only in the second half we moved to 4231 with him as a 10 and he was subbed after 20 minutes of that.

Yeah, that's certainly what it looked like for most of the time he was on.

A lopsided 4-3-3 of sorts with one extremely offensive and one extremely defensive fullback.

Lindelöf---------------Maguire
AWB-------------------------------------------------------------
McTominay
VDB----------------------------------------Fred
--------------------------------------------------------------------------Telles
Sancho-------------------------------Ronaldo-------------------------------Martial​

It then became almost a (lopsided again) diamond of sorts.

 

[Stacks]

haha what?!

I mean is it really the real reason? He has not been suited to (according to the likes of you) or he is not that good at United after being here for about a year and half.

I am saying in this thread that the myth that the United seemed to be more solid or balance (idk wth that means there) with him while he contributed pretty much just a body on the pitch with probably one of the worst performances in recent years in that 60 mins is pretty funny because it was not true.

sadly

Failed his audition tonight but deserves a run of games.

he deserves nothing. No player deserves anything at Utd unless they show something when they play and he shows nothing most of the time. A youth player would show more in cameos. Lingard comes in and does more and looks more impactful in his limited mins. Utd need standards.

it’s his second season, but awkwardly I’ll say it’s early days to judge. He needs a good run of games, he hasn’t had that at united. With bruno around, he made the #10 position his. That won’t change and i really think that isn’t vdb’s best position in the set up. I think we’ll get much more from him in the central midfield position where he’ll link the lines together. We currently don’t have that as McFred are not capable of doing the vital role of taking the ball from the back and distributing it forward. VDB can do that. He showed a glimpse of what he can do against watford (the only good thing from that game).

the pressure is now on VDB, he will get more chances I think and it’s on him to show what he can do.

but again, i did not see enough of him to say he isn’t good enough.

It is too early to give up but he does himself no favours. Doesn't impose himself.

A run of games is needed to properly assess him. He's never had consistently so far. He is a good player without a doubt. I would prefer him playing next to Fred, in a more restricted role because his ability to link up could be more useful than what McTominay could ever provide.

I kind of agree but he makes it hard to warrant a run of games.

A run of games is what’s needed and not as a No.10 but as a 6…then I believe we will see if quality better. He’s a good player, possible brilliant player in there somewhere just waiting to come out and show us!

that's a reach. What brilliance do you see? At this point Lingard is the better player

He's not going to get regular playing time if he doesn't justify it when he does get on the pitch. We're not in a league where we can have him coast through 5 or 10 games just to find his rhythm, if he can't do it quicker than that he might as well leave in January because it will never work out here.


For everybody saying it's not fair to judge him as a 10. In the first half we lined up as a 433 with him in his ideal centre midfield role...he still did nothing.

EXACTLY. We cant have passengers. Its up to him to take his audition

I really don't understand all the clamouring for him, he's played 40+ games for us and 99% of them he's just coasted by, gets the ball, passes it to the nearest man, rinse repeat. A random goal doesn't change that. I think somewhere along the way criticism of Ole became mixed with clamouring for VDB, but from what he's shown so far he just doesn't have much to his game.

gets better the longer he is out and McFred are rubbish. Also he is dutch, has blonde hair and came from Ajax who had that cup run that time in the CL so must be good

Thought he did just fine - he'll only improve with more consecutive games

see below. Standards on the floor simply because he came from Ajax academy and has blonde hair

Ghost mode for him last night

28 touches
1 dribble
1 tackle
0 shots
0 key passes
0 interceptions
3 dispossessions
1 unsuccessful touch

 

[kouroux]

@Stacks if his competition is good then yeah I'd agree but starting him over McT or Fred isn't a tough decision. Giving him a run of games, with this current midfield, should be piss easy

 

[Stacks]

@Stacks if his competition is good then yeah I'd agree but starting him over McT or Fred isn't a tough decision. Giving him a run of games, with this current midfield, should be piss easy

If they are so wank he should be able to easily outshine them EVERY time but to me he doesn't

 

[darioterios]