[KeanoMagicHat]

The problem with starting VDB so little is that every performance is scrutinised. He didn’t have a great game but he kept the shape way better than Bruno. I’d like to see him get another chance.

 

[VanDeBank]

Arguments he's not a no.10 are fair. He was nothing more than OK in the game and Bruno was much better.

Not a bad player, i just don't see how he fits into this team but he does combine well with Sancho in particular. Are his strengths worth reshaping the team for? Not sure.

I'd play him over McTominay any day of the week. Donny can do basic passes and his defensive positioning is less suspect.

There's a good argument to be made for Fred Bruno Matic, but Matic can't play twice a week. I think that's where Donny should come in, in the coming weeks.

 

[Name Changed]

He has been able to hide behind Fred, McTominay and Ole who was not picking him because he was trying to win games. Carrick fell for the clamour to get him on the pitch that he benched Bruno Fernandes of all people, and 66 minutes later, he had to go back to the bench to win the game.

He wasn't playing because he wasn't good enough when he played. He's played today and wasn't good enough either. The more he plays, the more many will realize that he is no good. I doubt he will play much more than he did under Ole anyway. I expect him to be on the bench next game.

Totally disagree. With everything.

 

[Ekeke]

He wasnt good. But keep in mind our best player is Bruno Fernandes, he has played the most key passes in the premier league and in the champions league and yet people think he hasnt played well.

So if our best player is struggling to make people happy in the 10 role whilst creating more chances than any other player in the competitions hes in, Van De Beek and any other player are probably not going to be given high marks either.

 

[Unam333]

The problem with starting VDB so little is that every performance is scrutinised. He didn’t have a great game but he kept the shape way better than Bruno. I’d like to see him get another chance.

"Another chance" should be "a run of games". That's only fair.

 

[Oranges038]

There's nobody that could tell me he can't do what McT does and more.

Couple of nice little link ups with Sancho. Really need to see more of him to see how good he can be.

 

[sugar_kane]

Right position or not he didn’t impress me at all, reminiscent of most of his other starts where he just seems to have no energy at all. Good on the ball but crap off it.

I’ll reserve judgement for now as I think his confidence is still shot, but tonight was the night to start proving Ole wrong and he certainly didn’t show much sign of that.

 

[charlenefan]

The difference between him and Bruno is night and day and that's why he hasn't played

 

[RUCK4444]

I’ve said since he arrived, he won’t get a lot of time becuase he’s nowhere near as good as Bruno and he doesn’t really fox our defensive issues in the pivot.

That doesn’t mean he’s a bad player, against Watford in that cameo alone he showed real quality but in this team with Bruno he won’t get a lot of minutes.

 

[Leftback99]

He was poor.

 

[Irwin99]

Needs a fair few more starts before we can judge but that was reminiscent of Kagawa, Andreas, Mkhitaryan in terms of the clamour to start him and what was actually delivered. Would like to see him play a bit deeper.

 

[The United]

Thought he was a bit cack honestly.

He was.

Seems like he runs a lot but not exactly useful ones unless we are camping on the opponent box. Not saying he is a bad player. He will need to be played more to see how he would develop or fit in this team.

 

[The United]

The problem with starting VDB so little is that every performance is scrutinised. He didn’t have a great game but he kept the shape way better than Bruno. I’d like to see him get another chance.

We had better shape in the first half because that was our game plan.

And, the attacking play was almost none due to that and no one could pass from deep like Bruno does even when we had some possession and tons of space behind them. I feel we could have gotten a goal in first half with Burno.

 

[acnumber9]

If he’s going to play it can’t be in place of Bruno. The gulf is huge.

 

[bosnian_red]

The problem with starting VDB so little is that every performance is scrutinised. He didn’t have a great game but he kept the shape way better than Bruno. I’d like to see him get another chance.

He deserves chances, but it's for sure not ahead of Bruno. They aren't in the same class tier as players. As part of the other 2 midfielders sure, but as a 10 he doesn't get involved at all. He played 40 minutes more than Bruno, but they had the same amount of touches today basically (and Bruno did far more with those touches). Bruno's movement off the ball was for more useful to us as well.

I hope Van de Beek comes good as a #8... but I don't really see it, past being a useful squad player. He's not as good as Fred in that position, and not as good as Bruno as a 10 (or most advanced player in a midfield 3).

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

We had better shape in the first half because that was our game plan.

And, the attacking play was almost none due to that and no one could pass from deep like Bruno does even when we had some possession and tons of space behind them. I feel we could have gotten a goal in first half with Burno.

But also I feel we might have conceded in the first half with Bruno giving the ball away with one of his crazy risky passes that aren’t on, or by pressing mad and leaving a gap in the middle, as we’ve seen in the past few months. Bruno is a brilliant player but just have to find a way of making him work along with Ronaldo and the rest of the team in a balanced way.

 

[Redlyn]

He has been able to hide behind Fred, McTominay and Ole who was not picking him because he was trying to win games. Carrick fell for the clamour to get him on the pitch that he benched Bruno Fernandes of all people, and 66 minutes later, he had to go back to the bench to win the game.

He wasn't playing because he wasn't good enough when he played. He's played today and wasn't good enough either. The more he plays, the more many will realize that he is no good. I doubt he will play much more than he did under Ole anyway. I expect him to be on the bench next game.

It was the right decision to bench Bruno and also the right decision to bring him on in the 2nd half. We were solid-ish for 60 mins and then picked them off. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't start Bruno Vs Chelsea for tactical reasons. The first thing is arrest conceeding so many goals and then build on being more expansive. Exactly what we did today.

 

[The United]

But also I feel we might have conceded in the first half with Bruno giving the ball away with one of his crazy risky passes that aren’t on, or by pressing mad and leaving a gap in the middle, as we’ve seen in the past few months. Bruno is a brilliant player but just have to find a way of making him work along with Ronaldo and the rest of the team in a balanced way.

There is a chance that any team would concede if any of their player loses the ball anywhere in the pitch for obvious reasons. I mean Bruno needs to be restrained at times with his passes.

But to say we might concede from his crazy passes into the 3rd which he usually does is just finding faults where there is none.

Not to mentioned we were conceding a lot of chances with VDB on the pitch IF you remember the game.

 

[The United]

It was the right decision to bench Bruno and also the right decision to bring him on in the 2nd half. We were solid-ish for 60 mins and then picked them off. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't start Bruno Vs Chelsea for tactical reasons. The first thing is arrest conceeding so many goals and then build on being more expansive. Exactly what we did today.

It is not like VDB added defensive stability there (Any of his defensive stats for this game?). Might as well play Matic for that. It was just that we were lucky to not conceded in the first 60 mins or so and the attacking play was pretty shit.

 

[Hugh Jass]

Maybe move him to MF alongside Fred or Matic.

Bruno changed the game when he came on.

 

[Cutch]

I don't think he even played as a 10 like others are saying in this thread, when we had the ball we played 4-3-3 and McT as DM with Fred going to the left of the 3 to cover Ronaldo on the left. He just wasn't very good again a lot like he's been for us when he's started.

Yep I'm shocked that people thought he was playing as a number 10. He was as advanced as Fred was with McTominay slightly deeper between the 2. At times then Fred went left to make it a 4-4-2

 

[KirkDuyt]

He was.

Seems like he runs a lot but not exactly useful ones unless we are camping on the opponent box. Not saying he is a bad player. He will need to be played more to see how he would develop or fit in this team.

Thing is, his role is to contribute goals. He's not the type to be very involved in general play, which seems to be something a lot. Of United fans are hoping for. He wasn't an important part to the general play at Ajax either. He just benefited massive from the rapid ball circulation by making optimal use of. The created space to score goals. He is exactly the same player as Klaassen or Guus Til, though Klaassen has adapted slightly to also be somewhat effective playing further back.

 

[moses]

Needs a fair few more starts before we can judge but that was reminiscent of Kagawa, Andreas, Mkhitaryan in terms of the clamour to start him and what was actually delivered. Would like to see him play a bit deeper.

He was the most advanced player quite frequently in the first half with Martial dropping in, it was all a bit weird.

 

[The United]

Thing is, his role is to contribute goals. He's not the type to be very involved in general play, which seems to be something a lot. Of United fans are hoping for. He wasn't an important part to the general play at Ajax either. He just benefited massive from the rapid ball circulation by making optimal use of. The created space to score goals. He is exactly the same player as Klaassen or Guus Til, though Klaassen has adapted slightly to also be somewhat effective playing further back.

Why should some of us listen to you who watched a lot of their team play in that league?

VDB to contribute the general play or else!

But for the United sake, I am hoping he would become at least useful to us due to our midfield being very bad.

 

[InspiRED]

I'd play him over McTominay any day of the week. Donny can do basic passes and his defensive positioning is less suspect.

There's a good argument to be made for Fred Bruno Matic, but Matic can't play twice a week. I think that's where Donny should come in, in the coming weeks.

I agree mctoms is bad in that position, but he can tackle a bit, which considering where he is on the pitch is better than ‘can’t tackle at all’. Unless we are a proper possession side, which we definitely aren’t, I can’t see how he fits in. But yeah not a bad player. It’s the kagawa conundrum again.

 

[Kostov]

Fought hard but ultimately seemed like all over the place to be fair. He will have better showings.

 

[Leftback99]

Just let him go in Jan and buy a quality replacement. None of this hoping he can come good at 6 or 8.

 

[VanDeBank]

I agree mctoms is bad in that position, but he can tackle a bit, which considering where he is on the pitch is better than ‘can’t tackle at all’. Unless we are a proper possession side, which we definitely aren’t, I can’t see how he fits in. But yeah not a bad player. It’s the kagawa conundrum again.

McTom is taller and his sliding tackle is slightly better. Is that worth picking him over VDB who can complete basic passes and positions himself better (both on and off the ball)? Ole thought so, I disagree.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I don’t see him as a 10 so feel it’s harsh but I don’t get the criticism - this is how he should be used if he’s backup to Bruno even if you don’t rate him. Perfect example of a squad player stepping in to facilitate your best pleural coming on when the oppo are knackered.

Personally I think he’s destined to go back to playing in a pair.

 

[Dobba]

Usual cowardly shite, which will turn into Keane in Turin in a months' time.

 

[Redlyn]

It is not like VDB added defensive stability there (Any of his defensive stats for this game?). Might as well play Matic for that. It was just that we were lucky to not conceded in the first 60 mins or so and the attacking play was pretty shit.

I don't disagree. Another midfield could have been used also. It's more the lack of Bruno and losing possession, prompting is forward, taking risks than it is about VDB.

 

[Mcking]

Totally disagree. With everything.

I have seen him multiple times on the same pitch with Jesse Lingard and Juan Mata and they almost always perform better than him. They are arguably better players than he is, but the only reason he is not placed in the same category as them amongst the players in the current squad is this notion that he never got chances.

He's got no much less chances than Telles for example when other options are available, and not many are clamoring for Telles to start games. Fact is Telles played, and wasn't as good as Shaw, Van de Beek played as well, and isn't deserving of starting ahead of any of our current starters. He started ahead of Bruno today, proved it, and the 'not a 10' excuses are already being whipped out.

I expect Bruno to rightfullly take back his place against Chelsea, and again against Arsenal, against Crystal Palace, in almost every meaningful game that we need to get a result in. When a place cannot be found for Van de Beek, it will be that he didn't get chances. He got one today, and underwhelmed. When he gets another as an 8, he is a 10. The less he plays, the better he becomes, the more unfair he is being treated.

Under Ole, he got the chance to start once in a while, giving us the chance to see him underwhelm once in a while. When he finally gets the chance to start every week, we will all get the chance to see him underwhelm everyweek. He will have no where to hide then, the 'never got the chances' excuse won't hide him as it currently does. I doubt that would ever happen though because he won't ever perform well enough to have a chance of being exposed everyweek.

Unless the man in charge can't pick himself out of the well of the clamour, then I expect him to be on the bench in our next game. He will start again another time, and he will underwhelm. After not starting for a while, it would be that he is being treated unfairly. He will start again and underwhelm to start another cycle. It will be like an endless loop, because he isn't good enough, and has way more admirers than a player of his caliber should.

Dalot started a few games ago and wasn't good enough. He hasn't played much since then, and not many are screaming unfair, why? Because he doesn't have more admirers than a player of his caliber should have, and he isn't perceived as some Johan Cruyff regen. He played and wasn't good enough, Van de Beek played wasn't good enough either.

 

[Ali Dia]

I like him a bit deeper in midfield for sure. He was shite again tonight to be fair.

 

[InspiRED]

McTom is taller and his sliding tackle is slightly better. Is that worth picking him over VDB who can complete basic passes and positions himself better (both on and off the ball)? Ole thought so, I disagree.

No need to bring Ole into it. We’re not a possession recycling side as much as I would like us to be. Maybe dvb eith matic could work. Think Fred and dvb could be disastrous. Sides had most success in that position with Rodri, Fernandinho and Fabinho who are all pretty robust in the tackle. Maybe Poch would get a tune out of dvb, he’s arguably most equipped to play like Eriksen from our squad.

 

[The United]

He wasnt good. But keep in mind our best player is Bruno Fernandes, he has played the most key passes in the premier league and in the champions league and yet people think he hasnt played well.

So if our best player is struggling to make people happy in the 10 role whilst creating more chances than any other player in the competitions hes in, Van De Beek and any other player are probably not going to be given high marks either.

That is true. Our fan base is not in their right mind at this moment due to the shit show with the management for years.

 

[Terranova]

the dutch tv showed exactly why he doesn't work with McFred. When Donny presses, they don't, which leaves a gap and control to the opponent. When Donny wants a pass for a quick passing combination, they don't pass. Totally different playing styles. It's never going to work with those two.

 

[Ixion]

Not going to shine when we have little possession and hardly any attacks. Tonight wasn't about going gung-ho though, it was about keeping it simple and making as few mistakes as possible.

 

[The United]

Not going to shine when we have little possession and hardly any attacks. Tonight wasn't about going gung-ho though, it was about keeping it simple and making as few mistakes as possible.

Which he had a main responsible for it.

 

[Ixion]

Which he had a main responsible for it.

If you think DVB is why we didn't create much in the first half I don't know what to tell you. The entire team was scared shitless and were obviously more concerned with keeping a clean sheet.

 

[Green_Red]

the dutch tv showed exactly why he doesn't work with McFred. When Donny presses, they don't, which leaves a gap and control to the opponent. When Donny wants a pass for a quick passing combination, they don't pass. Totally different playing styles. It's never going to work with those two.

Great point.