Donald Trump - All things impeachment.... | Acquitted in the Senate

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nimic said:
It already moved the needle when it comes to public support for impeachment far more than the Mueller report ever did. Impeachment basically went overnight from quite unpopular to just about evenly popular. Obviously Trump isn't going to get impeached by the senate unless things get much worse, but since this is such a clear and simple to understand abuse of power, it'll probably hurt Trump politically. At the very least it should make him a little less likely to win in 2020.
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Thanks, will be interesting to see how it develops over the coming months.

If he's impeached next year how would that effect the republican candidate for 2020? Do they have one lined up already? I'm assuming they wouldn't have time to go through the usual processes of selecting a candidate
 
I'm actually completely blown away by the rate at which this is all escalating. I think having no SCO this time managing to keep things under wrap and the DOJ not having the same control of the narratives and facts has made it a bit of a free for all.

By that I mean people who work around Trump/The White House/DOJ/FBI/CIA are more confident going to the press with information as they're either on record as a source of that information or fear going on record with that information in interviews with Mueller and co.

It's really starting to snowball.
 
Any reasonable human being would resign by now before this gets even more embarrassing for person and party but Trump will drag his heels until the end.
 
Red Defence said:
A fair few Russians there too. Has Barr met with them I wonder?

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Really a huge stretch and not really worth discussing. Russian people in Italy, just like there is on any of the other 365 days of the year.
 
Pexbo said:
Really a huge stretch and not really worth discussing. Russian people in Italy, just like there is on any of the other 365 days of the year.
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Well we’ll have to see. A hush-hush visit by Barr to Italy at the same time as prominent Putin allies may quite well be significant. Add to that what’s going on in the US at the moment and I’d say it’s a bit premature to dismiss it so scathingly, wouldn’t you.
 
Red Defence said:
Well we’ll have to see. A hush-hush visit by Barr to Italy at the same time as prominent Putin allies may quite well be significant. Add to that what’s going on in the US at the moment and I’d say it’s a bit premature to dismiss it so scathingly, wouldn’t you.
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In all honesty it would be the exact worst moment for Barr to choose or be ordered to meet with these dudes so.....maybe it's true!
 
Regardless of whether Trump's going to be impeached, I just find this desperation from Democrats and their followers in in mass media and social networks highly amusing. Somehow they're not bothered at all by the fact that Joe Biden may very well have abused his position as vice president not only to interfere in another country's business but also to help out his son. They're just so blinded by their hatred, they either don't realize how hypocritical they appear or they don't even care.

In the early 2014 a pro-western coup takes place in Ukraine, heavily supported by Obama administration.Couple of months later Hunter Biden joins the Board of Directors of Burisma, the largest private natural gas producer in Ukraine. In 2016 during his visit to Ukraine Joe Biden demands from the president and the prime minister of the country to remove the general prosecutor (who at the time was investigating Burisma for corruption) or the country wouldn't receive the next IMF credit tranche worth around 1 billion USD. The prosecutor gets fired, the investigation stops.

Now swap Trump or Pence in place of Biden in this story and just imagine the shitstorm it would generate.
 
antihenry said:
Regardless of whether Trump's going to be impeached, I just find this desperation from Democrats and their followers in in mass media and social networks highly amusing. Somehow they're not bothered at all by the fact that Joe Biden may very well have abused his position as vice president not only to interfere in another country's business but also to help out his son. They're just so blinded by their hatred, they either don't realize how hypocritical they appear or they don't even care.

In the early 2014 a pro-western coup takes place in Ukraine, heavily supported by Obama administration.Couple of months later Hunter Biden joins the Board of Directors of Burisma, the largest private natural gas producer in Ukraine. In 2016 during his visit to Ukraine Joe Biden demands from the president and the prime minister of the country to remove the general prosecutor (who at the time was investigating Burisma for corruption) or the country wouldn't receive the next IMF credit tranche worth around 1 billion USD. The prosecutor gets fired, the investigation stops.

Now swap Trump or Pence in place of Biden in this story and just imagine the shitstorm it would generate.
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I fail to see the point you are trying to make? How does anything Biden may have done change anything about Trump?
 
Abizzz said:
I fail to see the point you are trying to make? How does anything Biden may have done change anything about Trump?
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Whubbery
[ hwuhb-uh-wuhb-wuhb-wuhb]
noun
a conversational tactic in which a person responds to an argument or attack by changing the subject to focus on someone else’s misconduct, implying that all criticism is invalid because no one is completely blameless.

See also:Whataboutism
 
antihenry said:
Regardless of whether Trump's going to be impeached, I just find this desperation from Democrats and their followers in in mass media and social networks highly amusing. Somehow they're not bothered at all by the fact that Joe Biden may very well have abused his position as vice president not only to interfere in another country's business but also to help out his son. They're just so blinded by their hatred, they either don't realize how hypocritical they appear or they don't even care.

In the early 2014 a pro-western coup takes place in Ukraine, heavily supported by Obama administration.Couple of months later Hunter Biden joins the Board of Directors of Burisma, the largest private natural gas producer in Ukraine. In 2016 during his visit to Ukraine Joe Biden demands from the president and the prime minister of the country to remove the general prosecutor (who at the time was investigating Burisma for corruption) or the country wouldn't receive the next IMF credit tranche worth around 1 billion USD. The prosecutor gets fired, the investigation stops.

Now swap Trump or Pence in place of Biden in this story and just imagine the shitstorm it would generate.
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That’s the Republican line too. Ignore what Trump is doing right now and focus on what someone else may have done in the past. Deny, distract and deflect. Works for some leaders too doesn’t it.
 
antihenry said:
Regardless of whether Trump's going to be impeached, I just find this desperation from Democrats and their followers in in mass media and social networks highly amusing. Somehow they're not bothered at all by the fact that Joe Biden may very well have abused his position as vice president not only to interfere in another country's business but also to help out his son. They're just so blinded by their hatred, they either don't realize how hypocritical they appear or they don't even care.

In the early 2014 a pro-western coup takes place in Ukraine, heavily supported by Obama administration.Couple of months later Hunter Biden joins the Board of Directors of Burisma, the largest private natural gas producer in Ukraine. In 2016 during his visit to Ukraine Joe Biden demands from the president and the prime minister of the country to remove the general prosecutor (who at the time was investigating Burisma for corruption) or the country wouldn't receive the next IMF credit tranche worth around 1 billion USD. The prosecutor gets fired, the investigation stops.

Now swap Trump or Pence in place of Biden in this story and just imagine the shitstorm it would generate.
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As far as I know removal of the general prosecutor was official US policy and also being urged by a variety of European powers. Allegedly chief among the reasons for this was the prosecutor's penchant for slow walking corruption investigations - including the one into Burisma. The investigation into Burisma also appears to be concerning the period before Biden jr joined.
 
Abizzz said:
I fail to see the point you are trying to make? How does anything Biden may have done change anything about Trump?
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It changes nothing about Trump. I was just pointing out hypocrisy of those who go after Trump while supporting the likes of Biden.
unchanged_lineup said:
Whubbery
[ hwuhb-uh-wuhb-wuhb-wuhb]
noun
a conversational tactic in which a person responds to an argument or attack by changing the subject to focus on someone else’s misconduct, implying that all criticism is invalid because no one is completely blameless.

See also:Whataboutism
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I'm not a fan of Trump, never liked him and think of him as a dangerous and arrogant bully so I don't have to defend him, by changing the subject or otherwise. But I just find that Trump bashing brigade is full of people who'll get personal and would attack anyone who starts asking uncomfortable questions instead of just blindly joining their crusade. I find both sides of this three year running hysteria utterly despicable for different reasons and don't see anything positive coming out of this for America or the rest of the world, as a result. It's this obsession for your side to prevail, no matter the methods used and what the consequences are. I've lived in the States in the past for a number of years, but I don't remember the society being polarized so much and Trump is just one half of that problem, and I don't see the other side as neccessarily the 'good guys'.
 
antihenry said:
Regardless of whether Trump's going to be impeached, I just find this desperation from Democrats and their followers in in mass media and social networks highly amusing. Somehow they're not bothered at all by the fact that Joe Biden may very well have abused his position as vice president not only to interfere in another country's business but also to help out his son. They're just so blinded by their hatred, they either don't realize how hypocritical they appear or they don't even care.

In the early 2014 a pro-western coup takes place in Ukraine, heavily supported by Obama administration.Couple of months later Hunter Biden joins the Board of Directors of Burisma, the largest private natural gas producer in Ukraine. In 2016 during his visit to Ukraine Joe Biden demands from the president and the prime minister of the country to remove the general prosecutor (who at the time was investigating Burisma for corruption) or the country wouldn't receive the next IMF credit tranche worth around 1 billion USD. The prosecutor gets fired, the investigation stops.

Now swap Trump or Pence in place of Biden in this story and just imagine the shitstorm it would generate.
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Make it sound almost as if Trumpster was impeccible clean and not once violated the emoluments clause enriching himself in front of the taxpayers very eyes but hey ho amongst many other things.
 
Abizzz said:
I fail to see the point you are trying to make? How does anything Biden may have done change anything about Trump?
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That poster is best ignored when it comes to matters that, even incidentally, touch on Russia.
 
antihenry said:
Regardless of whether Trump's going to be impeached, I just find this desperation from Democrats and their followers in in mass media and social networks highly amusing. Somehow they're not bothered at all by the fact that Joe Biden may very well have abused his position as vice president not only to interfere in another country's business but also to help out his son. They're just so blinded by their hatred, they either don't realize how hypocritical they appear or they don't even care.

In the early 2014 a pro-western coup takes place in Ukraine, heavily supported by Obama administration.Couple of months later Hunter Biden joins the Board of Directors of Burisma, the largest private natural gas producer in Ukraine. In 2016 during his visit to Ukraine Joe Biden demands from the president and the prime minister of the country to remove the general prosecutor (who at the time was investigating Burisma for corruption) or the country wouldn't receive the next IMF credit tranche worth around 1 billion USD. The prosecutor gets fired, the investigation stops.

Now swap Trump or Pence in place of Biden in this story and just imagine the shitstorm it would generate.
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Very odd post. Biden is one of the most unpopular politicians on this forum. But he's not in office.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
As far as I know removal of the general prosecutor was official US policy and also being urged by a variety of European powers. Allegedly chief among the reasons for this was the prosecutor's penchant for slow walking corruption investigations - including the one into Burisma. The investigation into Burisma also appears to be concerning the period before Biden jr joined.
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The removal of the general prosecutor hasn't changed anything in relation to corruption investigations being handled better, so it's all BS. Secondly, would you believe this to be the case if it was Trump instead of Biden? When asked, current president of Ukraine stated that he wasn't pressured by Trump to investigate Biden, but that didn't stop Democrats from going after Trump now, did it? This is the point I'm making, people just take as God's truth anything if it's something they want to believe. And the other way around.
 
antihenry said:
It changes nothing about Trump. I was just pointing out hypocrisy of those who go after Trump while supporting the likes of Biden.
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Fine by me as long as you recognize Trump as the crook he is. But if anything wasn't it a failure by republicans not to stir a shitstorm about Biden and Ukraine in 2014? Why expect the Democrats to do it, isn't that the oppositions job? Hardly hypocritical of Democrats not to go after their own when we are constantly being told by the right that we're supposed to support "the president"...
 
antihenry said:
The removal of the general prosecutor hasn't changed anything in relation to corruption investigations being handled better, so it's all BS. Secondly, would you believe this to be the case if it was Trump instead of Biden? When asked, current president of Ukraine stated that he wasn't pressured by Trump to investigate Biden, but that didn't stop Democrats from going after Trump now, did it? This is the point I'm making, people just take as God's truth anything if it's something they want to believe. And the other way around.
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At most it's a potential conflict of interest but I'd certainly say it isn't particularly strong evidence of wrongdoing. If it's official US policy Biden is literally following the country line in an official capacity - not something Trump is doing; which is attempting to conceal conversations, abusing executive privilege to withhold aid in the face of congress and circumventing official channels by involving his personal attorney.

The criticism of the general prosecutor and the pressure for him to be removed wasn't even limited to the US. Nor was the investigation into Burisma confined to the Ukraine. It's difficult to conclude that Biden being the messenger of an international campaign to have the guy removed is prima-face evidence that he was acting on behalf of his son. This is especially so since his son wasn't even part of the group in the period under which the corruption was being investigated.
 
antihenry said:
The removal of the general prosecutor hasn't changed anything in relation to corruption investigations being handled better, so it's all BS. Secondly, would you believe this to be the case if it was Trump instead of Biden? When asked, current president of Ukraine stated that he wasn't pressured by Trump to investigate Biden, but that didn't stop Democrats from going after Trump now, did it? This is the point I'm making, people just take as God's truth anything if it's something they want to believe. And the other way around.
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Does anyone in the world seriously expect him to say anything else?
 
antihenry said:
The removal of the general prosecutor hasn't changed anything in relation to corruption investigations being handled better, so it's all BS. Secondly, would you believe this to be the case if it was Trump instead of Biden? When asked, current president of Ukraine stated that he wasn't pressured by Trump to investigate Biden, but that didn't stop Democrats from going after Trump now, did it? This is the point I'm making, people just take as God's truth anything if it's something they want to believe. And the other way around.
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It doesn't matter what the Ukrainian President said. It is ILLEGAL for a US President to ask foreign countries/leaders to dig up dirt on political opponents, or to interfere in elections.

At one of his rallies Trump asked Russia to help with Hillary's emails and that was before he was elected. Then add the secret convos with Saudi and Russia AND him saying to the Russians he didn't care about their interference in the election because "The US does it too"

Add that to the countless list of his other crimes and the spin from the Mueller report and you can see why the Dems are going so hard after him.

As for Biden, he's a creepy old man and if he has been involved in anything illegal then of course he should be held accountable, but that's not the issue here and he's not President of the USA. if you want to discuss that, open up a thread about it. This is the TRUMP impeachment thread so take the whataboutism elsewhere, please.
 
Abizzz said:
Fine by me as long as you recognize Trump as the crook he is. But if anything wasn't it a failure by republicans not to stir a shitstorm about Biden and Ukraine in 2014? Why expect the Democrats to do it, isn't that the oppositions job? Hardly hypocritical of Democrats not to go after their own when we are constantly being told by the right that we're supposed to support "the president"...
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I'm not appealing to either Democrats or Republicans, they're both bunch of crooks, as far as I'm concerned. I'm talking about regular people who are being manipulated by mass media into believing there's some sort of good vs evil battle going on and you're one of the cool guys if you support Dems against Trump.
 
antihenry said:
I'm not appealing to either Democrats or Republicans, they're both bunch of crooks, as far as I'm concerned. I'm talking about regular people who are being manipulated by mass media into believing there's some sort of good vs evil battle going on and you're one of the cool guys if you support Dems against Trump.
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Its not really about good v evil as it is holding a lawless demagogue accountable.
 
Holy fecking shit balls he's actually running full steam ahead with the collusion in spite of everything :lol:

Absolute mad man :lol:
 
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