Anything to suit their bigoted agenda.
Television Doctor Who
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
I've never watched this before but have wanted to get into it. Is now the best time to start? Anything I'll need to watch before starting on the latest episode?
It was a two-parter, so the episode before that.
The view from Liverpool:
TLW said:
TLW said:
The most impactful one he committed (his own people) was retconned, and I'm still pissed off about that.
As for the changes, I'm most concerned with the showrunner rather than the actor. His episodes so far have been pretty forgettable on the whole.
Because wimminz can't be doctors.
I'm convinced that the Deep South is populated by immigrants from Liverpool
If you have Amazon Prime, the "new stuff" all the way back to Eccleston in 2005 is on there included with your Prime membership
TBF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Parliamentary_constituencies_in_Merseyside
Edit: the red colour is certainly a common thread though
I've heard someone complain about "PC gone mad" because a gay couple was in a movie. I rolled my eyes so hard I damn near went blind.
I don't watch Dr. who, but I have to say, it's hilarious some of the shit people actually care about.
I might be the only one here who can kind of see where some of the people against it are coming from. If you grew up with a male doctor, looked up to him/idolised him etc. you might feel a bit miffed that they suddenly go female?
The thing is, I don't think any of these people still watch the show. They are complaining because it's something from their childhood that's been altered fairly significantly.
For what it's worth, I think it's a good pick as she's been good in what I have seen her in, but I don't watch the show.
It's sometimes hard not to feel a little bit aggrieved by the over-balancing of things nowadays though. What's worse is not being allowed to hold a differing opinion, it's not like it's gay marriage, or feminism in general, it's a tv show character. People should be allowed to want them to stay the same gender I think.
The thing is, I don't think any of these people still watch the show. They are complaining because it's something from their childhood that's been altered fairly significantly.
For what it's worth, I think it's a good pick as she's been good in what I have seen her in, but I don't watch the show.
It's sometimes hard not to feel a little bit aggrieved by the over-balancing of things nowadays though. What's worse is not being allowed to hold a differing opinion, it's not like it's gay marriage, or feminism in general, it's a tv show character. People should be allowed to want them to stay the same gender I think.
Always difficult to tell how much is real and how much is trolling.
I think there was some controversy way back when Tom Baker was announced to be the Doctor. Many felt he was too young, after all up to that point he had been portrayed as a grandfatherly/fatherly figure and here was this relatively young guy coming in to play him.
I agree with this. Well, most of it anwyay. As funny as it was to see all the frothing outrage at "pc gone mad" and assorted neck beards vowing to never watch the show again, it was equally toe-curling to see the hordes of people from the other end of the political spectrum besides themselves with glee about how this choice will wind people up. And woe betide anyone on twitter who expressed an opinion that maybe they would prefer if the doctor stayed as a male character. Having an opinion like that doesn't necessarily make you a misogynist Trump voter but it seems as though you have to be on message about every little thing these days or else you're a Terrible. Person.
It's going to confuse the hell out of the Daleks first time she runs into them!
As I said before the key will be in the story telling. If it ends up coming across as "oh look at us, how clever are we having the Dr. be a woman this time" it will be awful. If they just deal with it straight away, and then just get on with the story it will be fine. Obviously when she runs into a recurring character, they might have to spend a few lines with the "Wait...what.....your the Doctor....but your a woman!" but that is okay in the grand scheme of things.
As I said before the key will be in the story telling. If it ends up coming across as "oh look at us, how clever are we having the Dr. be a woman this time" it will be awful. If they just deal with it straight away, and then just get on with the story it will be fine. Obviously when she runs into a recurring character, they might have to spend a few lines with the "Wait...what.....your the Doctor....but your a woman!" but that is okay in the grand scheme of things.
I don't think it's unfair for fans of a 60 year old show (I'm not particularly one of them, btw) to be irked at a fairly significant change driven by (at least what they perceive to be) nothing more than political correctness.
Another example of this sort of thing can be found in Marvel comics and their push for diversity, which has lead to various PC examples as female Thor, Wolverine and, of course, 'Iron Man' becoming a black, 15 year old girl. The list goes on. These are blatant, major deviations from established and popular characters that have been hugely successful. And for what? Incredibly, significant numbers of fans have been pissed off by these changes and their anger has no doubt contributed to the decline in sales that Marvel comics are experiencing. Their V.P. of sales even cited the push for diversity as a possible factor in those dipping sales - of course he was hounded for doing so to the point that he had to retract that (after all, how dare he!?), but there you go. Obviously a number of fans of these comics were simply not interested in the newfangled, culturally diverse, but ultimately less appealing characters Marvel attempted to introduce and therefore were doubly annoyed (and rightly so) when the characters they do give a shit about are essentially hijacked so that diversity can be forced on them instead.
People have every right to complain about this sort of thing, which is becoming more and more commonplace, without being labelled and dismissed as bigots and misogynists. But I guess one of the biggest ironies of overzealous political correctness is how often it is used to belittle those who disagree without actually listening to the arguments they pose. "Everyone must be treated equally and must absolutely not be insulted. Ever! (Oh, except for those twats that disagree with us)".
fecking annoying.
Anyways. I thought Whittaker was excellent in Broadchurch and hope she does well in this role as well. I haven't watched Dr. Who for ages so I might tune in and see if they've toned down some of the cheesyish writing and nonsensical plot twists that put me off it a bit.
Another example of this sort of thing can be found in Marvel comics and their push for diversity, which has lead to various PC examples as female Thor, Wolverine and, of course, 'Iron Man' becoming a black, 15 year old girl. The list goes on. These are blatant, major deviations from established and popular characters that have been hugely successful. And for what? Incredibly, significant numbers of fans have been pissed off by these changes and their anger has no doubt contributed to the decline in sales that Marvel comics are experiencing. Their V.P. of sales even cited the push for diversity as a possible factor in those dipping sales - of course he was hounded for doing so to the point that he had to retract that (after all, how dare he!?), but there you go. Obviously a number of fans of these comics were simply not interested in the newfangled, culturally diverse, but ultimately less appealing characters Marvel attempted to introduce and therefore were doubly annoyed (and rightly so) when the characters they do give a shit about are essentially hijacked so that diversity can be forced on them instead.
People have every right to complain about this sort of thing, which is becoming more and more commonplace, without being labelled and dismissed as bigots and misogynists. But I guess one of the biggest ironies of overzealous political correctness is how often it is used to belittle those who disagree without actually listening to the arguments they pose. "Everyone must be treated equally and must absolutely not be insulted. Ever! (Oh, except for those twats that disagree with us)".
fecking annoying.
Anyways. I thought Whittaker was excellent in Broadchurch and hope she does well in this role as well. I haven't watched Dr. Who for ages so I might tune in and see if they've toned down some of the cheesyish writing and nonsensical plot twists that put me off it a bit.
Just to counter your point slightly. You can't ignore the fact that most of the superhero canon is from an age where there was so little diversity we ended up in a situation where black, brown or female kids have almost nobody they can relate to when they watch/read superhero stories. So a bit more diversity is definitely a good thing. You're right about it being a problem when the changes are heavy-handed.
Plus, as I said, it should be perfectly allowable for anyone to say "In my opinion, I preferred this character/storyline before it was changed in this way" without being labelled assorted words ending in -ist.
I'm not a fan of Doctor Who and therefore don't really know/care if this is a significant change?
But if it's a change for the sake of equality why can't people just write shows with strong female leads? Rather than shoehorning a woman into role that has been male for years...why not write a better sci fi show with a woman leading? (It wouldn't be hard)
But if it's a change for the sake of equality why can't people just write shows with strong female leads? Rather than shoehorning a woman into role that has been male for years...why not write a better sci fi show with a woman leading? (It wouldn't be hard)
This was the best tweet about it
Yeah I can see this point of view as well. Why not just start your own stuff instead of hijacking existing stuff?
Whenever they do this it always looks like they are just trying to fit a quota which is a shame because generally the women do a fine job at it. Just start you're own thing and get on with it.
I suppose the counter argument is that Doctor Who is an iconic show with a worldwide reach so to do this puts the issue of gender equality on a significantly higher level than creating a female led show with a similar theme.
Its a slippery slope to Daleks with tits though.
Find it more hilarious that people are treated it as a total surprise. We've had a female master for the last two/three seasons?... Obviously testing the waters.
The bigotry labels are inevitable as these complaints only happen when a women does a traditionally mans job rather than the other way around. For example, was there such criticism when Dwayne Johnson played a tooth fairy? Not really. So why do such criticisms arise when a woman plays a traditionally male role? And the answer for the majority of detractors is that they're massive bigots.
There's a very obvious reason for that. The tooth fairy wasn't a long running fictional character with a pre-existing loyal fanbase. At least if it was, I missed out!
DM is getting shredded by its readers for this, if you click on best rated.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...Jodie-Whittaker-seen-TOTALLY-NAKED-Smoke.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...Jodie-Whittaker-seen-TOTALLY-NAKED-Smoke.html
Yes it is, it's a staple story told to children. Much like santa, who when portrayed by a black man in a mall in America became a Fox news controversy. Why? Massive bigots.
Yeah the tooth fairy is a minor character at best. Kids know about it of course, if their parents tell them, but it is not like there are scores of popular movies, books, imagery, that go along with the Tooth Fairy myth. So it makes sense that there would be less talk about how the tooth fairy is portrayed, then there is a character in a hugely popular, international hit TV show that has been running (with some breaks) since the 1960's.
Don't be silly. The tooth fairy doesn't have a fanbase. Fans of fictional characters/shows are a nerdy, obssessive bunch who generally don't like change. Not really fair to label them all bigots when they dislike such a radical change to their favour character.
All I'm saying is let's not pretend the criticism is coming from a good place. The Doctor would suddenly "just be white, he's always been white" if they cast a black man in the role.
Just look at the BS when Hermione was portrayed by someone who wasn't white. There's a lot of bigots on this planet, and I'm not going to pretend that their bigoted complaints are founded in rational thought.
Agreed and in many ways I think the tendency of people to accuse anyone who isn't a fan of the change as a bigot/misogynist/terrible person etc is part of the reason we've ended up with mad men like Trump in power. Obviously in the grand scheme of things Dr Who doesn't matter but the response is a great representation of how open discussion is just stifled with people throwing labels at anyone who dare not tread the poplar line.
Re your point on comics/tv show heroes etc I completely agree there needs to be more diversity how you get there is the tough part. For me I'd like to see new characters/tv/comics etc rather than changing old ones but it really depends on the situation. I.e. if The Doctor was a title handed down from worthy person to person then you'd say that it's more than time there was a female version.
The Dr role could easily be played by any gender. Not sure what all the fuss is about.
Are the Daleks still the same salt and pepper container shape? They shouldn't change that.
Are the Daleks still the same salt and pepper container shape? They shouldn't change that.
Sadly predictable. I thought I'd have a look on DM at all the hate comments about the new doctor story that wasn't even close to the top of the page but this was. Not even 5 mins after the announcement this was the lead story.
They didn't like being called bigots so they elected a terrible bigoted person to show us? Oh my, that really showed us.
Uh, why not both?
The Dr Who change is about as trivial as this sort of things get tbf. The whole regeneration concept means the show has a baked in character overhaul every few years. And they've already gender swapped with The Master. So, all in all, there's not much to complain about here. No matter how obsessive a fan you might. But, like I said, we're talking about hardcore nerds here. A lot of them probably a bit aspy. You can see why this might be a bridge too far for a lot of Dr Who fans. It's incredibly harsh to start labelling them as bigots IMHO. They should be allowed to object without being accused of being misogynist. Which is not to say that some of them aren't bigots. I'm sure some of them are.
It's not the hardcore fans complaining. Much like with the Ghostbusters thing, it's coming from people who are bigots.
The professionally outraged will leap on any old bandwagon tbf.
Like most of these stupid arguments on twitter. You get a load of virtue signalling* on both sides. People need to be seen to have an opinion, even if the issue has feck all impact on their day to day lives.
*can we use that phrase with right wing trolls? what's their equivalent? nasty signalling?
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