Television Doctor Who

[Nytram Shakes]

Fecking dreadful trailer, but like the actress so im excited!

 

[Sparky_Hughes]

Good choice imo, a talented and funny actress, and a million times better than the goon from my family

 

[2 man midfield]

But it's not just acceptance is it? In discussions about Bond and Who you get people actively excited about changes. How many times have you seen something along the lines of 'I'd love to see X in the role' or 'I think Y's take on the character would be really interesting'? It happens all the time. Fans fully expect actors to bring new things to the roles they get cast in and understand that there's more to a recast than an actor trying to emulate how someone else did it.

Yeah there can be different takes on the character or what have you, but I don't remember the fundamentals of the character changing many times. Making Bond a woman would shift a lot of what makes those films so distinct. I've only ever seen one, but even I can name all the stuff that everyone apparently loves about them.

It's fiction, it would take a single line of dialogue to make it whichever way you want to.

Yeah you can shoehorn in stuff like that, but fans tend to be able to see right through it.

 

[decorativeed]

Can't wait to see her do battle with a Dalek in a bikini.

Wait, who am I kidding.. I don't watch the programme.

I get the argument as to why the show needed freshening up and all that but this just smacks of political correctness gone mad. What next? Janine Bond? Maybe they could remake Star Wars and make Darth Vader a female.

I know, what are the BBC thinking with this decision. Clearly they are pandering to this tiny female demographic. They only make up 51% of the population ffs. Next thing you know, it won't be our country anymore, there will be a woman on the throne and another one in number 10. Where will this madness end?

 

[Silva]

It's just another writer's take on the books as far as I can see. Adaptations happen all the time with British, American and countless other versions of the same show. Wasn't there some version of The Office where David Brent was a woman?

I just think it's a bit of a slap in the face for fans of long running shows like Doctor Who, who've built up so much investment in a character who's supposed to be the same guy, to suddenly become something different.

It's a shape shifting alien who travels through time and who is part of a species that changes gender.

 

[Silva]

Yeah you can shoehorn in stuff like that, but fans tend to be able to see right through it.

Nah, they're idiots which is the biggest reason why the film industry is dominated by remakes and sequels.

 

[2 man midfield]

It's a shape shifting alien who travels through time and who is part of a species that changes gender.

Who has been played by a man for 53 years. It's not hard to see why people don't want this aspect of the character to change.

 

[Silva]

Who has been played by a man for 53 years. It's not hard to see why people don't want this aspect of the character to change.

By different men for a few years each.

 

[Parry Gallister]

I like the program. Will give it the benefit of the doubt, hopefully she'll be good/they won't make too much of a thing out of it. Do get why some are unhappy, hopefully the actual series will be good enough to make the gender irrelevant. More worried about the new writers really.

 

[2 man midfield]

By different men for a few years each.

Yeah which has led to audience to demand a man for the role. For all intents and purposes, the character of Doctor Who was a man. Until about 3 hours ago when all that was flipped on its head. I'm not saying I agree with it but it's pretty easy to see why some people don't like the change.

 

[Silva]

More worried about the new writers really.

Moffat really fecked his reign as showrunner tbf. Basically the same thing every week.

 

[Parry Gallister]

Moffat really fecked his reign as showrunner tbf. Basically the same thing every week.

Yep, was not perfect but better the devil you know, some real shite and disappointing ends to almost all the two parters but the odd banger or two. Not familiar with the new guy's work, haven't seen broadchurch etc.

 

[Silva]

Yeah which has led to audience to demand a man for the role. For all intents and purposes, the character of Doctor Who was a man. Until about 3 hours ago when all that was flipped on its head. I'm not saying I agree with it but it's pretty easy to see why some people don't like the change.

As mentioned above, audiences are stupid. Listening to them leads to a worse product.

 

[2 man midfield]

As mentioned above, audiences are stupid. Listening to them leads to a worse product.

I think there's a difference between fan service and changing the fundamental aspects of a character though. If he's a man, he should stay a man is all I'm saying. You wouldn't see Mr Marple anytime soon, and nor should you.

 

[Schmiznurf]

I think there's a difference between fan service and changing the fundamental aspects of a character though. If he's a man, he should stay a man is all I'm saying. You wouldn't see Mr Marple anytime soon, and nor should you.

The Doctor isn't a man though, they're an alien whose people are genderless.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Yep, was not perfect but better the devil you know, some real shite and disappointing ends to almost all the two parters but the odd banger or two. Not familiar with the new guy's work, haven't seen broadchurch etc.

First series is pretty good. Second is literal garbage and I haven't seen the third because of aforesaid dumpster fire of a second series.

Torchwood started off ok and got shit too, but don't know if he was involved the whole way through.

Either way he can't be worse than how stale Moffat is now.

 

[2 man midfield]

The Doctor isn't a man though, they're an alien whose people are genderless.

If that's the case then fair enough. As I said above if the story can support that then it can make sense. It's when the character's gender is obviously part of their character when I'd have an issue with it. As I also said I haven't seen Doctor Who, so I wasn't sure what the deal was.

 

[Silva]

I think there's a difference between fan service and changing the fundamental aspects of a character though. If he's a man, he should stay a man is all I'm saying. You wouldn't see Mr Marple anytime soon, and nor should you.

I don't see why not though. Even Mrs Maple is just a fictional character and it doesn't much matter who plays the character. The only time I'd agree it matters is when depicting real people.

 

[decorativeed]

Yeah which has led to audience to demand a man for the role. For all intents and purposes, the character of Doctor Who was a man. Until about 3 hours ago when all that was flipped on its head. I'm not saying I agree with it but it's pretty easy to see why some people don't like the change.

Has it actually though? Most of the people I know that watch this show are female, and they are happy with this.

Whoever the actor is is secondary to who the writers are, as Capaldi showed. I thought he'd be great, but the first series with him as absolute shite - due mainly to the horrendous writing. Also, everyone knows the actor will change again a few years down the line.

 

[Oaencha]

Haven't watched Doctor Who in ages. Used to really like it and Matt Smith's first season (5) is the best imo. The Van Gogh episode was incredible.

What has turned me off it is the shoddy writing, extremely child-friendly plots and each episode being written by a different writer. There's no continuity and the characters are all Jekyll and Hydes.

I don't care in the slightest that the new Doctor is female. I'll give it a go but I'm not expecting much. They need to give it a break for a few years and come back fresh.

 

[Silva]

They need to give it a break for a few years and come back fresh.

This is the one thing that won't happen. Even if it's in the gutter domestically it's huge internationally and too much of a cash cow for the BBC.

 

[2 man midfield]

I don't see why not though. Even Mrs Maple is just a fictional character and it doesn't much matter who plays the character. The only time I'd agree it matters is when depicting real people.

Simply because that's the character. It would annoy me as an audience member if something like a character's gender was suddenly swapped after an extended period of time. To my mind that person is a man/woman.

Has it actually though? Most of the people I know that watch this show are female, and they are happy with this.

Whoever the actor is is secondary to who the writers are, as Capaldi showed. I thought he'd be great, but the first series with him as absolute shite - due mainly to the horrendous writing. Also, everyone knows the actor will change again a few years down the line.

Can't say any of my friends are into it, I'm just going off the apparent outrage many have quoted. That said, social media has the tendency to magnify a small amount of dissent and make it seem wider than it actually the case.

 

[Ash_G]

I don't see why not though. Even Mrs Maple is just a fictional character and it doesn't much matter who plays the character. The only time I'd agree it matters is when depicting real people.

I think the difference though is that you could make a new interpretation of Mrs Marple/Shelock with a male/female and that wouldn't be a problem or shouldn't be one anyway. But if Sherlock came back for S5 as a woman, having had a sense change then I don't think people would be on board with that despite the fact that it's possible. Same with a new Harry Potter book with him as a female which again am sure is possible in that universe but wouldn't make sense with what we've seen of the character.

For me that's the issue. For the character as I and I expect many have seen him, he is a man. Yes they've retconned (poorly imo) that you can switch genders as a Timelord and sometimes they've inferred that Timelords don't see gender (again poorly imo) but that doesn't mean it should happen.

I think JW is a good actor but personally didn't see the need for them to change the gender and can't help but feel that it's a PC choice rather than the right choice for the show. I definitely believe they need more female leads on TV but for me this should have been a spin off character or they should have created a new family TV show to replace Dr Who when it's off air like Merlin/ Robin hood etc but with a female lead.

 

[roseguy64]

Who has been played by a man for 53 years. It's not hard to see why people don't want this aspect of the character to change.

A man who changes age wildly

 

[Silva]

I think the difference though is that you could make a new interpretation of Mrs Marple/Shelock with a male/female and that wouldn't be a problem or shouldn't be one anyway. But if Sherlock came back for S5 as a woman, having had a sense change then I don't think people would be on board with that despite the fact that it's possible. Same with a new Harry Potter book with him as a female which again am sure is possible in that universe but wouldn't make sense with what we've seen of the character.

For me that's the issue. For the character as I and I expect many have seen him, he is a man. Yes they've retconned (poorly imo) that you can switch genders as a Timelord and sometimes they've inferred that Timelords don't see gender (again poorly imo) but that doesn't mean it should happen.

I think JW is a good actor but personally didn't see the need for them to change the gender and can't help but feel that it's a PC choice rather than the right choice for the show. I definitely believe they need more female leads on TV but for me this should have been a spin off character or they should have created a new family TV show to replace Dr Who when it's off air like Merlin/ Robin hood etc but with a female lead.

You're being incredibly short sighted. Dr Who is the BBC's flagship sci-fi show (arguably their flagship show altogether only competing with Top Gear) and they intended to keep it around for as long as humanly possible. And it benefits the BBC to open up the casting call to both male and female actors going forward. As it benefited them widening the net to younger actors it will benefit them widening the net to women and minorities.

 

[roseguy64]

If that's the case then fair enough. As I said above if the story can support that then it can make sense. It's when the character's gender is obviously part of their character when I'd have an issue with it. As I also said I haven't seen Doctor Who, so I wasn't sure what the deal was.

That's the case with Bond who's a male spy. The Doctor is an alien who can change gender.

 

[roseguy64]

Haven't watched Doctor Who in ages. Used to really like it and Matt Smith's first season (5) is the best imo. The Van Gogh episode was incredible.

What has turned me off it is the shoddy writing, extremely child-friendly plots and each episode being written by a different writer. There's no continuity and the characters are all Jekyll and Hydes.

I don't care in the slightest that the new Doctor is female. I'll give it a go but I'm not expecting much. They need to give it a break for a few years and come back fresh.

No continuity? I'm lost here. There's been loads of continuity. Each variation of the Doctor changes subtly from episode to episode or series to series but that's just showing the different sides of the personality or the Doctor being changed by the companion he's with.

 

[sullydnl]

I think the difference though is that you could make a new interpretation of Mrs Marple/Shelock with a male/female and that wouldn't be a problem or shouldn't be one anyway. But if Sherlock came back for S5 as a woman, having had a sense change then I don't think people would be on board with that despite the fact that it's possible. Same with a new Harry Potter book with him as a female which again am sure is possible in that universe but wouldn't make sense with what we've seen of the character.

For me that's the issue. For the character as I and I expect many have seen him, he is a man. Yes they've retconned (poorly imo) that you can switch genders as a Timelord and sometimes they've inferred that Timelords don't see gender (again poorly imo) but that doesn't mean it should happen.

I think JW is a good actor but personally didn't see the need for them to change the gender and can't help but feel that it's a PC choice rather than the right choice for the show. I definitely believe they need more female leads on TV but for me this should have been a spin off character or they should have created a new family TV show to replace Dr Who when it's off air like Merlin/ Robin hood etc but with a female lead.

Thing is, this will probably generate more interest in the next season then any male lead they were likely to cast. So even leaving aside the PC thing, it's probably a smart move just in terms of generating buzz for a show that seems to have lost a bit of the momentum it had upon its return.Especially as I'm pretty sure I read that more women than men watch the show these days?

 

[Ash_G]

You're being incredibly short sighted. Dr Who is the BBC's flagship sci-fi show (arguably their flagship show altogether only competing with Top Gear) and they intended to keep it around for as long as humanly possible. And it benefits the BBC to open up the casting call to both male and female actors going forward.

I don't really see why that's short sighted. I agree it's a flagship show but don't see what that has to do with the need to change the gender particularly when there's both a male and female lead on the show. In addition I don't honestly believe that they are going to do every audition with both males and females actors coming in for the same role. Hasn't Chinball come out and said he was always looking for a woman? Who know's what the process will be going forward but don't see them really just going for whoever auditions best, pretty sure that they will identify first what gender they want and then cast, particularly as the companion will be impacted by this.

 

[Smores]

In a universe where the character changes personality quite substantially why the hell should gender be a big deal?

A female Bond I'd be against but i don't see the issue here and it reeks of you know what.

 

[Silva]

I don't really see why that's short sighted. I agree it's a flagship show but don't see what that has to do with the need to change the gender particularly when there's both a male and female lead on the show. In addition I don't honestly believe that they are going to do every audition with both males and females actors coming in for the same role. Hasn't Chinball come out and said he was always looking for a woman? Who know's what the process will be going forward but don't see them really just going for whoever auditions best, pretty sure that they will identify first what gender they want and then cast, particularly as the companion will be impacted by this.

Companions aren't lead characters.

It's also pretty telling that the only people who seem to be annoyed by this are men. Did the doctor make you feel better about having a little pecker or something?

 

[2 man midfield]

A man who changes age wildly

Fair point.

That's the case with Bond who's a male spy. The Doctor is an alien who can change gender.

Yeah as I said, Bond is much more cut and dry for me. I'm not familiar with Sci-Fi too much, at least Bond is supposed to be grounded in reality.

 

[Ash_G]

Thing is, this will probably generate more interest in the next season then any male lead they were likely to cast. So even leaving aside the PC thing, it's probably a smart move just in terms of generating buzz for a show that seems to have lost a bit of the momentum it had upon its return.Especially as I'm pretty sure I read that more women than men watch the show these days?

Definitely will create buzz but again don't think that should be a reason for doing it or how long term impactful that will be. Think I read that as well that female audience is big but hard to say how many of them watch it because they enjoy seeing a male Doctor. Doesn't Tennant usually win most polls for favourite doctor?

I think it's a good thing though for girls though to give them a role model they can more easily identify with but again for me that's all the more reason to create a new show/character because in the same fashion a male doctor is more easy for boys to identify with, particularly as there's not many not violent male heroes to look up to on tv/cinema.

 

[Mockney]

Capaldi was cast because Moffat - not to mention lots of fans - specifically wanted an older actor after several years of younger ones. But apparently 63 years of male actors is an unacceptable reason for wanting a female one all of a sudden.

 

[Silva]

Propjoe from the daily mail asks:

WHY WHY WHY WHY!!! PC NONSENSE! Jackie Chan to play Poirot next.

I think it's a good thing though for girls though to give them a role model they can more easily identify with but again for me that's all the more reason to create a new show/character because in the same fashion a male doctor is more easy for boys to identify with, particularly as there's not many not violent male heroes to look up to on tv/cinema.

The doctor has committed genocide several times, he's not exactly a Ghandi figure.

 

[Ash_G]

Companions aren't lead characters.

It's also pretty telling that the only people who seem to be annoyed by this are men. Did the doctor make you feel better about having a little pecker or something?

Ah the go to response to anyone who isn't always on-board for all "PC" thinking.

I've not gone out and done a sample but know some women who don't like the idea of this.

Again I've not said I have a problem with women in lead roles or that they don't need more representation in tv or film. I just don't think this was the best way to do it even though I know it's been on the cards for a few years now.

 

[Silva]

As a Danish man living in Aberdeen, I have to say that this is wonderful news. I am slightly disappointed that they haven't considered postmodern intersectional discourse surrounding genders though. I would like to see a gender none-specific Doctor using only neutral nouns to take the helm. There are over 700 genders you know. Not that the angry right-wing trolls will understand that. Unlike me they didn't go to the best universities in the world!

Some excellent trolling by DanishMan1 on the daily mail site

 

[Ash_G]

Propjoe from the daily mail asks:




The doctor has committed genocide several times, he's not exactly a Ghandi figure.

True but the essence of his character is that he's much more about intellectually/emotionally solving an issue rather than violently.

 

[Silva]

Ah the go to response to anyone who isn't always on-board for all "PC" thinking.

I've not gone out and done a sample but know some women who don't like the idea of this.

Again I've not said I have a problem with women in lead roles or that they don't need more representation in tv or film. I just don't think this was the best way to do it even though I know it's been on the cards for a few years now.

Did you also shit yourself when the Master changed gender?

 

[sullydnl]

Anyway, doesn't complaining about a woman being cast as the doctor kinda go against the whole ethos of the show? It generally has a rather liberal, inclusive, PC-ish vibe anyway.