Dimitar Berbatov | 2010/11 Performances

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Bilbo said:
I reckon this has always been the case. Many people were saying last season that he would not have been used in Europe regardless of form, and IMO were well wide of the mark.

Berbatov is unlike any other player we have. If he is playing well enough, then we'll find a way to accomodate him. The fact is, he hasn't been up to now.

I sincerely hope (and I say this as someone who didn't want us to sign him and probably being one of his biggest critics on here) that this early season promise continues.
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Nah Bilbo. A lot of the chat on these boards has been that irrespective of how well Berbatov plays, in the big games when we prefer 4-5-1, he'll be back on the bench.

Thing is, this was premised around the outstanding form of Rooney. Now that is no longer the case (at the moment) it has changed people's thinking. I don't think we're going to go 4-4-2 in the big games, as that would amount to suicide in certain games. I think it'll be Rooney on the left in a 4-5-1.
 
Feed Me said:
For me, these two posters show the difference between constructive criticism and being an outright muppet. No one minds posters having negative views, but in Dans' case, it appears that nothing other than an unreasonably exceptional level of performance will alter his perception of Berbatov - one suspects that even then, he'll find some stick to beat him with.

Red_Aaron on the other hand, whilst admitting to not being convinced, still clearly wants Berbatov to do well.
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Explain to me what constructive criticism is and how it might help Berbatov.

Remember, this is an internet discussion forum.

Also, try your best not to put words into my mouth to help make your pathetic "points". You do nothing other than disagree in an insulting manner - don't try and pretend otherwise.
 
Feed Me said:
For me, these two posters show the difference between constructive criticism and being an outright muppet. No one minds posters having negative views, but in Dans' case, it appears that nothing other than an unreasonably exceptional level of performance will alter his perception of Berbatov - one suspects that even then, he'll find some stick to beat him with.

Red_Aaron on the other hand, whilst admitting to not being convinced, still clearly wants Berbatov to do well.
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Dans posted that Berbatov had had a good start to the season. He didn't need to do that. How does that make him an outright muppet?

There are many fans who aren't yet convinced by Berbatov. That will change with every good performance.
 
Dans has been here long enough for me to know that in no way would he want Berba to fail, especially at the expense of United success.

That's a totally crap accusation.
 
Livvie said:
Dans posted that Berbatov had had a good start to the season. He didn't need to do that. How does that make him an outright muppet?

There are many fans who aren't yet convinced by Berbatov. That will change with every good performance.
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Its the fact that he's determined to judge him to harsher standards than other players. He's stated that Berbatov scoring 20 league goals this season would only 'in part' equal a successful season for the player. Pogue points out that Cole, Hughes and McClair (and Cantona too incidentally) never managed to score 20 league goals in a season for us, and he responds with a yawn smiley instead of actually addressing the point. So not only is he setting very lofty goals for the player, but he's still leaving himself the option of calling him a failure even if he reaches them.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
Its the fact that he's determined to judge him to harsher standards than other players. He's stated that Berbatov scoring 20 league goals this season would only 'in part' equal a successful season for the player. Pogue points out that Cole, Hughes and McClair (and Cantona too incidentally) never managed to score 20 league goals in a season for us, and he responds with a yawn smiley instead of actually addressing the point. So not only is he setting very lofty goals for the player, but he's still leaving himself the option of calling him a failure even if he reaches them.
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I'm sure it's not all about goals, but about performance too.

Even if he is negative, I don't think for a minute that Dans will want United to fail just so he can say he was right about Berba.
 
Dans said:
Explain to me what constructive criticism is and how it might help Berbatov.

Remember, this is an internet discussion forum.

Also, try your best not to put words into my mouth to help make your pathetic "points". You do nothing other than disagree in an insulting manner - don't try and pretend otherwise.
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If I come across as abusive, then I'm sorry. I don't mean to be. As you say, this is a football forum and in the grand scheme, not that important. I'd hate for anyone's nose to be put out of joint because of something that I said on something as inconsequential as a football forum!

But if you look at your posts on Berbatov, I think you've transcended the point where you constructively criticise. It seems to me that any praise you send his way is grudging - that's how this argument started - which is indicative of the fact that you have slated him so much, that it would represent a hell of a u-turn to now give him praise. I'm not saying you are, but you do come across as a bit embittered, as though you wouldn't be too displeased for his form to nosedive, just so you could come on here and say "I told you so..."

Plenty of people on the forums have had a go at Berbatov over the last two years, but the difference is that many of them are now happy to say that he's in great form now and it's clear that they're delighted with this up-turn. You posts make it seem as though you're not that pleased in all honesty, and you're pre-empting a downturn in form. Why not just be happy and give him the credit he deserves now that he's really making a go of it?
 
To break this loop completely and go sort of on-topic, who thinks Berbs could be key for us this season?

I mean properly key, like Rooney was last. It's very knee-jerk and I don't think so yet but there's been a couple of murmurs about it and it does sort of make sense. Wazza's off-field troubles and recent injury woes might mean this season he takes a small step out of the limelight, Scholesy's playing every other game or so and Berbs hasn't gone long to make his mark on United folklore.

Personally, I've always liked Berbatov. Even last season I thought he was class, he just lacked confidence in front of goal. Combined with the goals this season and he could be magical for us.

What say ye, Caftards?
 
AVARiCE said:
To break this loop completely and go sort of on-topic, who thinks Berbs could be key for us this season?

I mean properly key, like Rooney was last. It's very knee-jerk and I don't think so yet but there's been a couple of murmurs about it and it does sort of make sense. Wazza's off-field troubles and recent injury woes might mean this season he takes a small step out of the limelight, Scholesy's playing every other game or so and Berbs hasn't gone long to make his mark on United folklore.

Personally, I've always liked Berbatov. Even last season I thought he was class, he just lacked confidence in front of goal. Combined with the goals this season and he could be magical for us.

What say ye, Caftards?
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I think it's fairly obvious that he could be amongst the real elite in our squad. It's up to him really. He has all the ability - if he can keep this form up, he will be picked. And I think that will be the case even when Rooney sorts himself out. It doesn't have to be one or the other, it can be both in great form.

Personally, I want to see a triumverate of Nani, Rooney and Berbatov develop - so that they can all play fluidly in all three front positions...
 
AVARiCE said:
To break this loop completely and go sort of on-topic, who thinks Berbs could be key for us this season?

I mean properly key, like Rooney was last. It's very knee-jerk and I don't think so yet but there's been a couple of murmurs about it and it does sort of make sense. Wazza's off-field troubles and recent injury woes might mean this season he takes a small step out of the limelight, Scholesy's playing every other game or so and Berbs hasn't gone long to make his mark on United folklore.

Personally, I've always liked Berbatov. Even last season I thought he was class, he just lacked confidence in front of goal. Combined with the goals this season and he could be magical for us.

What say ye, Caftards?
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He has the ability to do it, but its still early days to judge whether he will be a key player for us - i reckon tomorrow will be the real acid test.

But i do believe that he and Nani will have very good seasons for us, both have started of well and if they keep it up it will be a great season for us.
 
Livvie said:
I'm sure it's not all about goals, but about performance too.
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True, but given the quality of the rest of his game if he scores 20 league goals then its hard to believe his overall performance level wouldn't measure up favourably to the likes of McClair, who Dans evidently views as a success.

Even if he is negative, I don't think for a minute that Dans will want United to fail just so he can say he was right about Berba.
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I'm sure you're right Livvie. I've never noticed him as an agenda-driven poster outside of this thread and in any case I'm sure you 'know' him better than I do. I just think he's coming across as a bit of a knob in this thread.
 
Feed Me said:
If I come across as abusive, then I'm sorry. I don't mean to be. As you say, this is a football forum and in the grand scheme, not that important. I'd hate for anyone's nose to be put out of joint because of something that I said on something as inconsequential as a football forum!

But if you look at your posts on Berbatov, I think you've transcended the point where you constructively criticise. It seems to me that any praise you send his way is grudging - that's how this argument started - which is indicative of the fact that you have slated him so much, that it would represent a hell of a u-turn to now give him praise. I'm not saying you are, but you do come across as a bit embittered, as though you wouldn't be too displeased for his form to nosedive, just so you could come on here and say "I told you so..."

Plenty of people on the forums have had a go at Berbatov over the last two years, but the difference is that many of them are now happy to say that he's in great form now and it's clear that they're delighted with this up-turn. You posts make it seem as though you're not that pleased in all honesty, and you're pre-empting a downturn in form. Why not just be happy and give him the credit he deserves now that he's really making a go of it?
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It's really simple.

I have not been impressed by him since he arrived.

He strikes me as someone who doesn't put in as much effort as he could.

He let's his head drop. He rages at fellow players more often than I'd care to see.

Som people disagree with my assessment (plenty don't you should note), but I maintain my stance and it then degenerates into name calling - it was started by the likes of RNick and Eriku I seem to remember, but plenty have joined in, not least Pogue who likes to call at least 5 posters a muppet per day, but that's his way and I don't really care what he thinks. Erica 7 also jumped in, said nothing other than you're wrong bla bla bla and then it all gets stupid.

I am not going to reverse my view because someone persistently tries to tell me they see it another way and therefore I must be a muppet.

I bumped the thread to give Berbatov some credit because I think he's had a decent start to the season. Perhaps the baiting of my detractors wasn't necessary, but I know what it's like on here. Had I not given him some credit (when due) and come back and had a go if his forms drops later, then they're all at you with the where were you when he was doing well bla bla bla.....you only come here to slate him bla bla bla

It's all so fecking precious.

As for constructive criticism, what I meant was there is no such thing. How can anything anyone says here be "constructive"? This isn't a place where players come to read gushing praise about themselves.
 
Dans said:
It's really simple.

I have not been impressed by him since he arrived.

He strikes me as someone who doesn't put in as much effort as he could.

He let's his head drop. He rages at fellow players more often than I'd care to see.

Som people disagree with my assessment (plenty don't you should note), but I maintain my stance and it then degenerates into name calling - it was started by the likes of RNick and Eriku I seem to remember, but plenty have joined in, not least Pogue who likes to call at least 5 posters a muppet per day, but that's his way and I don't really care what he thinks. Erica 7 also jumped in, said nothing other than you're wrong bla bla bla and then it all gets stupid.

I am not going to reverse my view because someone persistently tries to tell me they see it another way and therefore I must be a muppet.

I bumped the thread to give Berbatov some credit because I think he's had a decent start to the season. Perhaps the baiting of my detractors wasn't necessary, but I know what it's like on here. Had I not given him some credit (when due) and come back and had a go if his forms drops later, then they're all at you with the where were you when he was doing well bla bla bla.....you only come here to slate him bla bla bla

It's all so fecking precious.

As for constructive criticism, what I meant was there is no such thing. How can anything anyone says here be "constructive"? This isn't a place where players come to read gushing praise about themselves.
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you don't know that, dans.

where better to gauge a fan's perception of a united player, than the " leading united fan site?"
 
Pat_Mustard said:
Its the fact that he's determined to judge him to harsher standards than other players. He's stated that Berbatov scoring 20 league goals this season would only 'in part' equal a successful season for the player. Pogue points out that Cole, Hughes and McClair (and Cantona too incidentally) never managed to score 20 league goals in a season for us, and he responds with a yawn smiley instead of actually addressing the point. So not only is he setting very lofty goals for the player, but he's still leaving himself the option of calling him a failure even if he reaches them.
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The point as been addressed often enough. I appreciate you probably can't be arsed to read 114 pages to find them though.

I think Berbatov has the ability to score 20 goals. He costs us 30m. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that he might achieve that. "In part" is referring to the other aspects of his game/character that I would prefer to improve over his goalscoring. If he scored 15 again but showed added effort and determination and perhaps a bit of tracking back, then I'd feel like he will have made the improvement that I would like to see.
 
EricaNo7 said:
you don't know that, dans.

where better to gauge a fan's perception of a united player, than the " leading united fan site?"
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Whether they do or not, I cannot bring myself to believe that it might even be remotely possible that Dimi gave up chasing after 70 mins against Fulham last season just to spite me.
 
Dans said:
The point as been addressed often enough. I appreciate you probably can't be arsed to read 114 pages to find them though.

I think Berbatov has the ability to score 20 goals. He costs us 30m. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that he might achieve that. "In part" is referring to the other aspects of his game/character that I would prefer to improve over his goalscoring. If he scored 15 again but showed added effort and determination and perhaps a bit of tracking back, then I'd feel like he will have made the improvement that I would like to see.
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Probably best just to revisit this later in the season. We're all in agreement that he's started the season well, so there's not much more to be said right now.
 
Dans said:
Som people disagree with my assessment (plenty don't you should note), but I maintain my stance and it then degenerates into name calling - it was started by the likes of RNick and Eriku I seem to remember, but plenty have joined in, not least Pogue who likes to call at least 5 posters a muppet per day, but that's his way and I don't really care what he thinks. Erica 7 also jumped in, said nothing other than you're wrong bla bla bla and then it all gets stupid.
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I challenge you to find evidence of me calling you names... aside from me calling you hypocrite earlier in the thread, which I also substantiated.
 
Dans said:
Challenge accepted.

That wasn't hard.
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I meant that your assertion was spastic.

edit: And at any rate, that's essentially a throw-away insult on this forum, and it's understandable that claiming the players didn't play the ball out when he was lying down injured was due to them being annoyed with his presence on the team would cause me to chuck that one in.
 
Come on, the Berb.... tomorrow is the time to show your talent.
 
Dans said:
The point as been addressed often enough. I appreciate you probably can't be arsed to read 114 pages to find them though.

I think Berbatov has the ability to score 20 goals. He costs us 30m. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that he might achieve that. "In part" is referring to the other aspects of his game/character that I would prefer to improve over his goalscoring. If he scored 15 again but showed added effort and determination and perhaps a bit of tracking back, then I'd feel like he will have made the improvement that I would like to see.
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The implication there is he never makes an effort or tracks back. This is, of course, nonsense.

Being wasteful in front of goal - fair.

Pointless sniping at team-mates - fair.

A tendency to get intimidated out of it in physical, tough games - fair.

Fragile confidence and apparent lack of self-belief - fair.

No effort, determination or tracking back - bollox.

He's no Brian McClair (he's a far better striker) but he puts a shift in. In fact, you'd have to have your head painfully far up your own arse to have watched berbatov in a United shirt and think that he doesn't make an effort to track back and get tackles in. Which is why listening to the opinions of certain posters on certain players is so pointless. They only see what they want to see.

Oh and for the record, Dans, there's no name-calling in this post, nor has there been in any other post I've addressed to you this season. In fact, you were the one calling me a cnut, about 24 hours ago. So dry your eyes and stop playing the victim.
 
Give up.

Playing the victim?

All I said was it's impossible to have a discussion about a player with a lot of posters on here unless you agree with everything they say. If you don't, they resort to name calling. As for you, I called you a sad old cnut in a thread where you ranted on about loving it when you felt that posters didn't like you.

What does one have to do with the other?

Typical of you really.
 
Dans said:
Give up.

Playing the victim?

All I said was it's impossible to have a discussion about a player with a lot of posters on here unless you agree with everything they say. If you don't, they resort to name calling. As for you, I called you a sad old cnut in a thread where you ranted on about loving it when you felt that posters didn't like you.

What does one have to do with the other?

Typical of you really.
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actually dans, it's you that seems to resort to the name calling, as you put it, first - at least it seems to me that you can be dismissive of our point of view , but we can't be be dismissive of yours.
 
Really though, Dans is a bit of a dick.

Pretty obvious.

I bet he even knows it.
 
Dans said:
Give up.

Playing the victim?

All I said was it's impossible to have a discussion about a player with a lot of posters on here unless you agree with everything they say. If you don't, they resort to name calling. As for you, I called you a sad old cnut in a thread where you ranted on about loving it when you felt that posters didn't like you.

What does one have to do with the other?

Typical of you really.
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What does one have to do with the other?

Not a lot. The fact you waded into a seperate thread and called me a cnut after complaining about name-calling makes you a hypocrite but that's beside the point. God knows I'm the last person who can take the moral high-ground over gratuitous insults.

I was mainly pointing out that your decision to use my name as a prime example of all the mean boys who call you rude names for daring to express an unpopular opinion had no basis in reality.

Which is no great surprise, seeing as that would be consistent with a lot of your observations in this thread.
 
EricaNo7 said:
actually dans, it's you that seems to resort to the name calling, as you put it, first - at least it seems to me that you can be dismissive of our point of view , but we can't be be dismissive of yours.
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I have not dismissed points of view, merely defended my own. As for name calling, sometimes I slip once there have been so many thrown my way, yes, I admit that.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
What does one have to do with the other?

Not a lot. The fact you waded into a seperate thread and called me a cnut after complaining about name-calling makes you a hypocrite but that's beside the point. God knows I'm the last person who can take the moral high-ground over gratuitous insults.

I was mainly pointing out that your decision to use my name as a prime example of all the mean boys who call you rude names for daring to express an unpopular opinion had no basis in reality.

Which is no great surprise, seeing as that would be consistent with a lot of your observations in this thread.
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I called you a sad old cnut, which I feel is not quite as harsh as calling you a straight out cnut. If you disagree, well then I apologise unreservedly.
 
Pogue, you know as well as I do that not a day goes by when you don't call a poster or 6 a muppet. It's what you do.
 
Dans said:
Pogue, you know as well as I do that not a day goes by when you don't call a poster or 6 a muppet. It's what you do.
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I know. And I feel like a twat about it, to be honest. I'm actually trying to cut down, believe it or not. Which is why I got the hump when I was name-checked as a name-caller in this thread.

Anyway we're both too old for all this teenage squabbling. I respect your opinion, even though I don't always agree with it. Here's hoping Berbatov has all the remaining doubters convinced by the end of this season, starting off with a good performance tomorrow.
 
Name Changed said:
I'm expecting something big from Berbatov tomorrow.
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I think this is the big question. And fair or not, this is how he will be deemed. Personally I think he still needs a big performance in this type of game (not just once) before we can fully accept that he will have become successful Utd player. It doesn’t even need to be a stunning 90 mins. But just a game changing moment, be it an assist or goal. Tomorrow will be a fantastic start to this. I hope he does
 
Randall Flagg said:
I think this is the big question. And fair or not, this is how he will be deemed. Personally I think he still needs a big performance in this type of game (not just once) before we can fully accept that he will have become successful Utd player. It doesn’t even need to be a stunning 90 mins. But just a game changing moment, be it an assist or goal. Tomorrow will be a fantastic start to this. I hope he does
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Agreed. That will be a big moment in his career at United. You already feel that he has turned the corner, but people will really sit up and take note with a performance against a massive rival.

I think he's going to tear it up today.
:devil:
 
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