Dimitar Berbatov | 2010/11 Performances

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Dans said:
I don't think I used the word minimum anywhere. You're also starting to twist my words to support your non point.
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You'll have to forgive me for twisting your words, only when you said this:

A good season from Berbatov would be in part 20 league goals
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...it was reasonable to assume that even if he "only" scored 20 league goals, you would somehow expect more for his season to be considered merely "good"

Feck knows what though?

Perfecting the seal dribble?

A cure for AIDS?
 
Berbatov's tally of goals last year wasn't too bad. Its just that when Rooney went down we really needed Berbatov to deliver and he failed miserably by missing easy headers, not getting into the box enough, etc.

Berbatov is capably of beating the big teams in big games with his skills and this is what I want to see. 12-15 league goals with a bunch coming in big games would be a good return for Berbatov along with his usual creation and assists, wonder goals etc.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You'll have to forgive me for twisting your words, only when you said this:



...it was reasonable to assume that even if he "only" scored 20 league goals, you would somehow expect more for his season to be considered merely "good"

Feck knows what though?

Perfecting the seal dribble?

A cure for AIDS?
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My god.

Read the rest of my fecking post and work it out. It may take you some time.......I'll check back tomorrow.
 
Dans said:
My god.

Read the rest of my fecking post and work it out. It may take you some time.......I'll check back tomorrow.
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I've already worked it out, thanks.

You expect him to score 20 goals and a bunch of other vaguely-defined stuff about working a bit harder (basically playing a bit more like Brian McClair, apparently)

I've already addressed the other "stuff" in my initial response to that post. Since then we've been discussing how ridiculous it is to expect "20 league goals and..." in order for him to have had a good season.
 
Er...

Pogue Mahone said:
The Dan-baiting is a bit unnecessary tbh.

He bumped this thread to give Berbatov due credit so I don't know why it needs to turn into a witch-hunt.
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Now leave him be... it's a bitch to back down after you've defended something so fervently :smirk:
 
I think he's had a storming start to the season, he's looked a lot sharper and quicker and up for the fight. He's also looked incredibility dangerous going forwards and more tellingly he's looked confident.

Long may it continue!
 
Dans said:
20 league goals:

Last Season:

1 Didier Drogba Chelsea 29
2 Wayne Rooney Man Utd 26
3 Darren Bent Sunderland 24
4 Carlos Tevez Manchester City 23
5 Frank Lampard Chelsea 22

2008/9

None

2007/8

1 Cristiano Ronaldo Man Utd 31
2 Emmanuel Adebayor Arsenal 24
3 Fernando Torres Liverpool 24

2006/7

1 Didier Drogba Chelsea 20

2005/6

1 Thierry Henry Arsenal 27
2 Ruud van Nistelrooy Man Utd 21

2004/5

1 Thierry Henry Arsenal 25
2 Andrew Johnson Crystal Palace 21

2003/4

1 Thierry Henry Arsenal 30
2 Alan Shearer Newcastle 22
3 Louis Saha Man Utd 20
4 Ruud van Nistelrooy Man Utd 20

2002/3

1 Ruud van Nistelrooy Man Utd 25
2 Thierry Henry Arsenal 24
3 James Beattie Southampton 23
4 Mark Viduka Leeds United 20


Whilst it might not be likely, it is definitely not impossible. feck me, if Saha can do it, Berbatov can.
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With the exception of Saha, most of the players you've listed are playing in a team which is built to allow them to be the main goal scorer or their scoring total is padded up by the fact they are taking penalties for their team.

Berbatov does not have the luxury of either as Rooney, when fit, is the first name on the starting lineup, which leaves Berbatov fighting for playing time especially when Sir Alex decides to lineup with only a single striker.

Would seem rather unfair to deem him a failure if he couldn't get 20 league goals in my opinion.
 
Feed Me said:
Make of that what you will, people.
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"Happy to be proven wrong."

How is that wishing for him to fail?

I doubt that any genuine United supporter would wish a player to fail but having negative feelings about a player generally stems from what they've achieved so far.

There are a lot of people on this forum who have shown faith in players, and it's good to be so positive. There are others who prefer to judge on performances rather than potential.

Veron is a great example of a player who lots of people had faith in, but apart from a few brilliant games, he never lived up to the hype.
 
Livvie said:
"Happy to be proven wrong."

How is that wishing for him to fail?

I doubt that any genuine United supporter would wish a player to fail but having negative feelings about a player generally stems from what they've achieved so far.

There are a lot of people on this forum who have shown faith in players, and it's good to be so positive. There are others who prefer to judge on performances rather than potential.

Veron is a great example of a player who lots of people had faith in, but apart from a few brilliant games, he never lived up to the hype.
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Dans has proven himself to be an absolute fool re Berbatov. There's no need to debate the point.

---

Anyways, Fergie has said that Berbatov starts on Sunday. Proof that if he is in form, he will be accommodated in the side.
 
Berba's starting berth
Sir Alex isn’t in the habit of giving away too many secrets, but the United boss has confirmed Dimitar Berbatov will play against Liverpool on Sunday.

The Bulgarian has been in fine form this season, netting four goals in five games to silence members of the media who had questioned whether he was cut out to play at Old Trafford.

But the manager has always backed the striker and will put his faith in the 29-year-old again when he sends him out against Liverpool at Old Trafford on Sunday.

Berba's starting berth - Manchester United Official Web Site

Go on Berba, show them how it's done. Get the winner.
 
Sw33t said:
Berba's starting berth
Sir Alex isn’t in the habit of giving away too many secrets, but the United boss has confirmed Dimitar Berbatov will play against Liverpool on Sunday.

The Bulgarian has been in fine form this season, netting four goals in five games to silence members of the media who had questioned whether he was cut out to play at Old Trafford.

But the manager has always backed the striker and will put his faith in the 29-year-old again when he sends him out against Liverpool at Old Trafford on Sunday.

Berba's starting berth - Manchester United Official Web Site

Go on Berba, show them how it's done. Get the winner.
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To think a few idiots on here thought he'd been dropped (as a pose to rested) mid-week! :lol:
 
Red_Jamie said:
:lol: kin hell!
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I think it's a fair point though mate. His movement definitely looks less constricted. As though he is really free of that knee knack.

Red_Jamie said:
To think a few idiots on here thought he'd been dropped (as a pose to rested) mid-week! :lol:
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Aye, idiocy. Never dropped in a million years.

Mind you, it's proof of how the worm has turned - people bemoaning his absence from the team!
 
Red_Jamie said:
:lol: kin hell!
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What's so bloody funny?

when you aren't moving as free, and you're trying to close down it can give the impression you are not trying hard enough, because you aren't looking agile.

When you're movement is less constricted it helps you do mor effective closing down giving off the impression that you're working harder when in reality you're work ethic hasn't changed at all, just the perception.
 
a star turn and winning goal against the scouse will go along way toward convincing some of the remaining doubters

come on Dimi thrash the feckers
 
Red_Aaron said:
a star turn and winning goal against the scouse will go along way toward convincing some of the remaining doubters

come on Dimi thrash the feckers
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It won't actually. A good season will though.
 
Dans said:
It won't actually. A good season will though.
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The magical 20 league goals, huh? A star turn and winning goal against the scousers isn't enough, he'll have to also score more league goals than Cole, Hughes, and McClair ever managed in a season and at least as many as Dwight Yorke in his best ever season.

Just so long as you're not setting him up to fail, eh? Because that would say more about you than it does about anything else.
 
Sw33t said:
Berba's starting berth
Sir Alex isn’t in the habit of giving away too many secrets, but the United boss has confirmed Dimitar Berbatov will play against Liverpool on Sunday.

The Bulgarian has been in fine form this season, netting four goals in five games to silence members of the media who had questioned whether he was cut out to play at Old Trafford.

But the manager has always backed the striker and will put his faith in the 29-year-old again when he sends him out against Liverpool at Old Trafford on Sunday.

Berba's starting berth - Manchester United Official Web Site

Go on Berba, show them how it's done. Get the winner.
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Rooney on the left?
 
EdWeatherall said:
Rooney on the left?
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could be - but not for def.

Nani-Fletcher-Scholes-Park
-----Rooney-Berbatov

could also switch to:

--Fletcher-Scholes-Park
Nani-----------------Rooney
---------Berbatov

Similarly you could swap Park with Giggs for a similar formation/fluidity.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
The magical 20 league goals, huh? A star turn and winning goal against the scousers isn't enough, he'll have to also score more league goals than Cole, Hughes, and McClair ever managed in a season and at least as many as Dwight Yorke in his best ever season.

Just so long as you're not setting him up to fail, eh? Because that would say more about you than it does about anything else.
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:boring:
 
Dans said:
It won't actually. A good season will though.
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actually?? i think you mean in your opinion

Which, had i known my throw away comment would be subject to such intense scrutiny, i should really have said too i suppose, so....

In my opinion a star turn and winning goal against the scouse will go a long way toward convincing some of the remaining doubters (one of whom i am btw)

so yeah, come on Dimi
 
I think Berbatov has started excellently, and I couldn't care less if I was wrong to question his effectiveness for United. Just delighted to see him play well more consistently.
 
Absolutely nothing wrong with questioning a player's effectiveness for United. All that any of us can do is offer our opinion on how well we think they're performing on the pitch.

God knows there was times when I thought Nani was never going to make it at United and I used to get incredibly frustrated about the performances he was putting in. I've got absolutely no problem admitting I may have been a bit harsh on him and the more he proves my earlier doubts wrong, the happier I am.

Some people seem to be a bit more reluctant to eat their words though. That's their perogative, I guess. Just makes you wonder how far they're willing to go before accepting their continued antagonism towards a United player is making them look a bit daft. Mind you, I'd rather they keep posting on said player than pretend he doesn't exist and never post about him again. That's a really sneaky way to deal with being proved wrong.
 
Berbatov has played well so far, very well, in the situation where Rooney has been poor (for whatever reason), Chicharito is new, and Macheda never seems to get much of a chance. The fact that it looks like he CAN play upfront alone with support is very positive.

I'm not sure that playing Rooney on Sunday would be selecting an in-form player. Maybe it's a chance to let Berbatov do his stuff without Rooney, at least for a few big games.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Absolutely nothing wrong with questioning a player's effectiveness for United. All that any of us can do is offer our opinion on how well we think they're performing on the pitch.

God knows there was times when I thought Nani was never going to make it at United and I used to get incredibly frustrated about the performances he was putting in. I've got absolutely no problem admitting I may have been a bit harsh on him and the more he proves my earlier doubts wrong, the happier I am.

Some people seem to be a bit more reluctant to eat their words though. That's their perogative, I guess. Just makes you wonder how far they're willing to go before accepting their continued antagonism towards a United player is making them look a bit daft. Mind you, I'd rather they keep posting on said player than pretend he doesn't exist and never post about him again. That's a really sneaky way to deal with being proved wrong.
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That seems to be the difference. Most normal United supporters would actually be happy at being proven wrong. I was also harsh on Nani yet when he transformed in the 2nd half of last season I was made to eat my words. I wasn't bitter at all, I was delighted. I think some people put too much of a personal agenda into things.
 
Whereas I will be positively livid if Berbatov has a good season. Absolutely gutted. feck me, imagine if he is the reason we win the league and, god forbid (not that there is a god, but that's a CE topic) the winning goal in the CL final. No fecking thank you.

Cue Pogue and his dissection of what he thinks I think will be a good season (which means I'm off for a nap until he's finished drivelling).
 
Mitch Conor said:
could be - but not for def.

Nani-Fletcher-Scholes-Park
-----Rooney-Berbatov

could also switch to:

--Fletcher-Scholes-Park
Nani-----------------Rooney
---------Berbatov

Similarly you could swap Park with Giggs for a similar formation/fluidity.
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I'd think the Giggs in place of Park thing with Giggs moving into the middle and Rooney more on the left if things get where we need to have more people in the middle.

With Berbatov said to be starting (and don't forget sometimes boss says one thing in the presser regarding a player and does something else) and in that Rooney almost has to start - Rooney moving onto one of the wings is something to consider.

Could also go:

Fletcher, Scholes Anderson
Nani, Berbatov, Rooney

The front 3 changing positions and Fletcher providing support down the right and Anderson providing support down the left. Both are good crossers with the respective stronger feet.
 
Shimo said:
I'd think the Giggs in place of Park thing with Giggs moving into the middle and Rooney more on the left if things get where we need to have more people in the middle.

With Berbatov said to be starting (and don't forget sometimes boss says one thing in the presser regarding a player and does something else) and in that Rooney almost has to start - Rooney moving onto one of the wings is something to consider.

Could also go:

Fletcher, Scholes Anderson
Nani, Berbatov, Rooney

The front 3 changing positions and Fletcher providing support down the right and Anderson providing support down the left. Both are good crossers with the respective stronger feet.
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I would be surprised if Anderson starts after being off for so long. Physioroom.com was showing him as very doubtful and expected return Sept. 25, now he is no longer on the list. Any fresh news on him? Maybe he is ready to play and I have missed something.

I would personally start with Nani, Fletch, Scholes, Park, Rooney and Berba. Giggs to come off the bench to bring in additional creativity, leadership and motivation if needed. I don't believe that Park can have the same effect if he came off the bench and not Giggsy.
 
Anderson was on the bench Tuesday. Fit enough for the bench then should be fit to play Sunday.
 
Shimo said:
Anderson was on the bench Tuesday. Fit enough for the bench then should be fit to play Sunday.
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You never know SAF might have thought if the game is safe around 60 min he would give Ando a run out just to get minutes on the board, but when we need a goal its unlikely we would turn to him...
 
Feed Me said:
Anyways, Fergie has said that Berbatov starts on Sunday. Proof that if he is in form, he will be accommodated in the side.
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I reckon this has always been the case. Many people were saying last season that he would not have been used in Europe regardless of form, and IMO were well wide of the mark.

Berbatov is unlike any other player we have. If he is playing well enough, then we'll find a way to accomodate him. The fact is, he hasn't been up to now.

I sincerely hope (and I say this as someone who didn't want us to sign him and probably being one of his biggest critics on here) that this early season promise continues.
 
Dans said:
:boring:
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Red_Aaron said:
actually?? i think you mean in your opinion

Which, had i known my throw away comment would be subject to such intense scrutiny, i should really have said too i suppose, so....

In my opinion a star turn and winning goal against the scouse will go a long way toward convincing some of the remaining doubters (one of whom i am btw)

so yeah, come on Dimi
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For me, these two posters show the difference between constructive criticism and being an outright muppet. No one minds posters having negative views, but in Dans' case, it appears that nothing other than an unreasonably exceptional level of performance will alter his perception of Berbatov - one suspects that even then, he'll find some stick to beat him with.

Red_Aaron on the other hand, whilst admitting to not being convinced, still clearly wants Berbatov to do well.
 
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