Rooney, this season (scored 3 against the same opposition). And he doesn't get to play against United either
Unless I'm very much mistaken, scoring 3 goals is much better than scoring none? Are you trying to jump on something that isn't there Pogue?
Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances
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Rooney, this season (scored 3 against the same opposition). And he doesn't get to play against United either
Unless I'm very much mistaken, scoring 3 goals is much better than scoring none? Are you trying to jump on something that isn't there Pogue?
Appreciate the stats. In order to paint the comprehensive picture, as you mention yourself, we would need to know 1. if he played in these matches and also 2. number of assists.
It would also be interesting to see his performances in Europe and the Cups during these 2 seasons.
I am sure he would approve of a shady deal.
Just to clarify my position - yet again - before the usual suspects come out with childish shite about me being Berbatov's bitch and unwilling to accept any criticism of my hero.
Do I think he's played like a £30m striker for United? No.
Do I think his career at United has been a success? No.
Am I disappointed at his overall level of performance these last two years? Yes.
Do I think he's improved on his debut season? Yes.
Do I think he's been an important player for us this season? Yes.
Do I think he's the right player to provide back-up for Rooney as a lone striker? No.
Has he done enough to merit another season with United? Yes.
Do I think he's played like a £30m striker for United? No.
Do I think his career at United has been a success? No.
Am I disappointed at his overall level of performance these last two years? Yes.
Do I think he's improved on his debut season? Yes.
Do I think he's been an important player for us this season? Yes.
Do I think he's the right player to provide back-up for Rooney as a lone striker? No.
Has he done enough to merit another season with United? Yes.
Rooney, this season (scored 3 against the same opposition). And he doesn't get to play against United either
Unless I'm very much mistaken, scoring 3 goals is much better than scoring none? Are you trying to jump on something that isn't there Pogue?
go for the throat brad..
Rooney, this season (scored 3 against the same opposition). And he doesn't get to play against United either
Unless I'm very much mistaken, scoring 3 goals is much better than scoring none? Are you trying to jump on something that isn't there Pogue?
Not sure what point you're making there, Brad, but I'm glad you agree that Berbatov proved at Spurs that he can be equally as productive - in terms of goals - against the very best opposition as Rooney has just been during the best season of his life.
Hence, fredthered was talking out his arse when he claimed Berbatov never turned up in big games for Spurs.
That was yet another example of one of those stupid myths created by people who are determined to slag him off at all costs, irrespective of the actual facts of what happpened on the pitch.
go for the throat brad..
Thought I'd also use a smilie in order to get my point across and make it more understandable.Impressive, is the answer. More so than now
EDIT oops cut the headers off. League played/scored, FA Cup played/scored, League Cup played/scored, Continental played/scored, Other played/scored, Total played/scored
I don't know his assist stats, but they're bollocks any way A grade. You'd want to know how many times he provided a chance for a player that he COULD have scored from, not that he DID. And even then there are all kind of flaws with it which have been talked about ad naseum on here
Thought so.
This has nothing to do with how good or otherwise the player is - but it's a bit of a stupid argument from some people to say that we shouldn't expect a £30m player to play like a £30m player.
What should we expect then?
Impressive, is the answer. More so than now
I don't know his assist stats, but they're bollocks any way A grade. You'd want to know how many times he provided a chance for a player that he COULD have scored from, not that he DID. And even then there are all kind of flaws with it which have been talked about ad naseum on here
Cheers for checking on this. I thought I was going senile for a bit since I remembered him having 2 very good seasons there.
I always thought Berbatov was a very good player at Spurs Pogue, never said anything to the contrary. He wasn't the player I wanted us to sign that summer, but I wasn't unhappy we brought him in
The problem is, he hasn't been that player, at THIS club
It's interesting to see when there's a sniff of being able to twist the stats to suit youre argument, you're bang in there producing the spin. When the previous stats about his goals here were posted, you had virtually nothing to do with them. Lacks credibility Pogue, and folk can twig what your game is. You're one eyed for Berbatov
Impressive, is the answer. More so than now
EDIT oops cut the headers off. League played/scored, FA Cup played/scored, League Cup played/scored, Continental played/scored, Other played/scored, Total played/scored
His start to goals ratio in the league this season is actually the best since he came to England which is interesting.
I never said I was fully satisfied with his performance. He can do a lot more. imho, he has been important to our team but can do better.
Looking for some objectivity, this is all.
I wasn't aiming the comment at you, chuck.
The peculiarities of Internet communication.
Definitely interesting.
You know something.....I do think that sums things up fairly well and I would have to agree with those answers.
For my own part I'd like to add:
Do I think he makes a good second striker if we play with more than one? Yes.
Anyway, when all is said and done, Berbatov could do himself a huge favour by not strolling around half the game, by making a few more tackles, by putting a bit more pressure on opposing defenders, by making a few more runs into the box, by not looking so fed up, by not moaning at all players around him when a pass goes astray (Rooney has earned that right imo) etc etc etc
IF, he had not so often engaged in all the above, perhaps the fans would have revelled in his stats a bit more than is the case.
IF, he had not so often engaged in all the above, perhaps the fans would have revelled in his stats a bit more than is the case.
Pretty much agree with Pogue there, still I'm pretty sure if an offer comes in for Berbs, we will certaily offload him as he hasn't suited our style or made our play better whatsoever. He's had some silky moments where he oozed class but the consistency was never there, certainly not a fans favorite like what Tevez was. At least from a good point is that he's keeping his mouth shut.
Yeah, I agree.
Mind you, he's been nowhere near as bad as many would make out, especially this season, when he's actually been quite good overall. Which would explain this:
Sure he hasn't started the big games blah blah blah but all we can ask of any player is to make the most of the opportunities he does get. I also think he deserves credit for never once complaining about sitting out the big games this season and for consistently talking about how much it means for him to play for Manchester United. Instead, his acceptance of team success coming ahead of individual glory is used to criticise him for a lack of ambition. Go figure.
I think that's unfair. I'm sick of clarifying my position, so I won't do it again but if you think I believe Berbatov has been an unqualified success at United you're well wide of the mark. I've been devil's advocate about Berbatov over the last two seasons because I've felt he's consistently attracted a level of criticism that out of proportion to what he deserves. If this makes me "one eyed", then I guess I'll have to live with that.
That is where you are wrong Fred. We never paid for a 30m pound player. Dimi has never been a 30m pound player. That is why you are so disappointed. We literally paid a black market fee for him. About 8m more than his true value.
By fuming that he isn't playing like a 30m player, you're doing the equivalent of someone who bought a normal tv in a black market at Plasma TV cost, complaining why his tv can't work like a Plasma tv.
nicely put
If he'd done better with the chance he got to play in big games (https://www.redcafe.net/7888970-post2270.html) perhaps he'd still be playing in them. So that is all we do ask, and he didn't cut the mustard
Pogue Mahone said:
Good, now THAT does clarify your position. You don't even really believe what you're saying yourself, just doing it out of some misplaced sense of injustice towards the player
I do have a sense of injustice. I don't think it's misplaced.
If you do, then fair enough.
Yeah exactly, it seems one way for Tevez when he was 'dropped' second season it is 'he couldn't get a run of form' but it's used as a tool to bash berbatov. He's scored 7 goals more than Tevez last year and only started 3 games more (same number of appearances).
In fairness, I think that Tevez dropped stuff only reared its head properly when he scored 4 against Blackburn, and then was back on the bench as Berbatov came in again the next game. That was a rare error from Fergie for me
I wish we'd feck Tevez off from this topic now though, I don't care about the little shit, he's gone and he's gone to City
But I guess he will be on a 30m players wage though. Expensive wages if it now seems he is not 1st eleven quality.
It's the double standards which piss me off the most.
The majority on here claimed Tevez was harshly done by when he didn't start the big games last season.
Conversely, when Berbatov has to sit out big games this season, the consensus is that the only reason he's sitting on the bench is because he's simply not good enough.
This is despite scoring over double the number of goals Tevez scored last season after appearing in an almost identical number of games (against almost identical opposition) All of which he managed despite carrying a chronic injury through a large part of the season.
How do the fans react? They shout down Fergie to demand we sign Tevez, then boo Berbatov
It's the double standards which piss me off the most.
The majority on here claimed Tevez was harshly done by when he didn't start the big games last season.
Conversely, when Berbatov has to sit out big games this season, the consensus is that the only reason he's sitting on the bench is because he's simply not good enough.
This is despite scoring over double the number of goals Tevez scored last season after appearing in an almost identical number of games (against almost identical opposition) All of which he managed despite carrying a chronic injury through a large part of the season
I understand what you boys are saying here but we all know that Berbatov was the second striker last season, Tevez was third. Berbatov has once again been the second striker this term.
Considering Tevez was third choice in his second season here it'd be much fairer to compare him to Michael Owen this year.
IndeedIt's the double standards which piss me off the most.
The majority on here claimed Tevez was harshly done by when he didn't start the big games last season.
Conversely, when Berbatov has to sit out big games this season, the consensus is that the only reason he's sitting on the bench is because he's simply not good enough.
This is despite scoring over double the number of goals Tevez scored last season after appearing in an almost identical number of games (against almost identical opposition) All of which he managed despite carrying a chronic injury through a large part of the season.
How do the fans react? They shout down Fergie to demand we sign Tevez, then boo Berbatov
An error he then went on to repeat almost exactly one year later when Michael Owen scored a European away hat-trick and was rewarded with bench duty for the following match.
I know you are probably paying my posts scant attention after I called you Dimi's bitch, but I think this is only half of what the problem with him is for those you don't appreciate or rate him. Stats all you like, I still don't have the impression he is a big game player, regardless of what he did at Spurs (I am not interested really in what he did there anymore), it's as much to do with his attitude and effort on the pitch. In that regard, Tevez and Berbatov couldn't be more different. Tevez could have scored half as many as Berbatov and been forgiven because of the commitment and work rate and energy he showed every game, rightly or wrongly (and that's so subjective it's not really something that can be judged). Berbatov is obviously a talented footballer, but he lacks the passion and the grit to play for United and impress the support.
Yes I'd agree with that. Then also came out in the press and declared it impossible for Owen to play with Rooney
But as I said, I think these mistakes from Fergie are rare. You don't win what he has and stay at the top level for so long if you make such errors on a continual basis
I see what you're coming from but when you bear in mind how much football Tevez played last season (the same amount as Berbatov this season and more than he's played at City this season) I don't think the comparison with Owen is fair.
Anyhoo, the Tevez v Berba thing should be consigned to history. Brad's right.
The problem is you are guessing. I'm not convinced we are paying Dimi more than we paid Tevez. & Dimi is first 11 quality. He is first choice partner for Rooney whenever we play 4-4-2.
When it comes to 4-5-1, I don't care how good Berba's form could be in. He'd never play ahead of Wayne.
The problem with our fans is they keep demanding 30m pound player performances from him. Forgetting he isn't in the league of Eto'o, Zlatan or Rooney to be asked to deliver such performances. Because that's the ilk of player that's a 30m player.
To even put his price in to perspective more, Torres never cost 30 million. Yet he is easily a 30 million pound talent. Thus it's all too obvious Berba was over priced! So why must he be continuously judged by an over inflated price tag?
Think about it. If he had cost us about 23 million. Would you all be saying he was a waste of cash, for a second choice forward? With the stats he has for us this season alone?
Whether he cost 10, 23, or 30,75, his effort isn't up to scratch.
Tempted to but I'm a glutton for an argument so I'll keep on reading them.
Yeah, I actually agree with all of that. There's an intangible quality to someone like Tevez which means he's the definition a big game player. I was thinking about this recently. I don't know why some players have this uncanny ability to bundle a goal in with their arse in the really big games but the ones that do are like gold-dust. It's absolutely no surprise that the fecker keeps scoring against us and it's a real shame we couldn't find a way to keep him motivated and performaing at United.
Berbatov is clearly cut from different cloth and he hasn't looked anything like a big-game player for United. The fact he has done for Spurs means I think (hope!) he can recreate that form at United but it might well be a bridge too far for him, mentally. He seems to lack the belief that he belongs on the biggest stage of all. I do think the fans have to share at least some responsibilty for this, due to being so reluctant to take to him (no doubt due to how much they loved Tevez) but the onus is now on Berbatov to "do a Nani" and put in a really big performance in a massive game, to start building some bridges.
This weekend would be a good time to start...
The irony is a great game from Berba would probably consist of him creating 2 and scoring the 3rd in a 3 or 4 goal win. But he'd still get stick for it. He can never win as long as people judge him by the physical standards of Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo.
Tempted to but I'm a glutton for an argument so I'll keep on reading them.
Yeah, I actually agree with all of that. There's an intangible quality to someone like Tevez which means he's the definition a big game player. I was thinking about this recently. I don't know why some players have this uncanny ability to bundle a goal in with their arse in the really big games but the ones that do are like gold-dust. It's absolutely no surprise that the fecker keeps scoring against us and it's a real shame we couldn't find a way to keep him motivated and performaing at United.
Berbatov is clearly cut from different cloth and he hasn't looked anything like a big-game player for United. The fact he has done for Spurs means I think (hope!) he can recreate that form at United but it might well be a bridge too far for him, mentally. He seems to lack the belief that he belongs on the biggest stage of all. I do think the fans have to share at least some responsibilty for this, due to being so reluctant to take to him (no doubt due to how much they loved Tevez) but the onus is now on Berbatov to "do a Nani" and put in a really big performance in a massive game, to start building some bridges.
This weekend would be a good time to start...
Yeah that was a mistake and I'll shut up about Tevez now, ugly little cnut (him not you)
I've already pointed out they've played similar amounts of football.
Berbatov's first year for us against the other big 4 was 4 starts 1 goal and 2 (possibly 3) assists but anyway your points are valid and you're entitled to not rate Berbatov.
My main issue with Berbatov is not his work rate or ability it's his flexibility to play in different systems for us which is why he doesn't play the big games or in Europe much and the only reason I can see us moving him on is to bring in someone who can and that move needing financing.
Alot of fans just can't stomach his style of play, it will always go against him
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