Excellent post.
Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances
- Thread starter Rood
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Excellent post.
Here's the full rundown...
Code:
Wigan (A) 5-0 (2nd goal, 58 mins)
Stoke (A) 2-0 (1st goal, 62 mins)
Sunderland (H) 2-2 (our 1st equalising goal, 51 mins)
Blackburn (H) 2-0 (1st goal, 55 mins)
Hull City (A) 3-1 (3rd goal, 82 mins)
Wigan (H) 5-0 (4th goal, 50 mins)
Burnley (H) 3-0 (1st goal, 64 mins)
Portsmouth (H) 5-0 (3rd goal, 62nd mins)
Everton (A) 1-3 (first (opening) goal, 16 mins)
Fulham (H) 3-0 (3rd goal, 89 mins)
Bolton (A) 4-0 (2nd and 3rd goals, 69 mins and 78 mins)So 4, although there's a case for not counting the 3rd goal against Bolton in that, since he scored the goal to put us 2-0 up you can't really say he just turned it on when we were cruising. Also, the third he scored against Fulham came after beating two defenders and laying it on a plate for Rooney earlier in the game for the second - so again, hard to say he only turned up to score a late goal.
It's not that he is more "mentally fragile" than other people that's the problem.
It's possible that when he arrived here there could have been some dressing room unrest, mainly because Tevez was so unhappy about his presence. If there was a reluctance, however unconciously, to make him feel as much a part of the team as everyone else, coupled with the fans siding with Tevez and against him and Fergie, then it would have had a dampening effect on him and his performance. That would of course have been made far worse by the fiasco at the end of the season when Tevez left.
Over time such uncomfortable surroundings will affect the performance of most players, just as it would affect most of the posters on here if they were playing at United. They might not admit it on here, or even to themselves, but that sort of atmosphere can eventually wear down the toughest of folk. I've seen it myself in other professions....it doesn't just apply to footballers.
Time we learned how to support players when they are with us. It serves a purpose, they play better and we win games. If their performance suffers because of a lack of support we are the only losers.....the other teams win.
It's possible that when he arrived here there could have been some dressing room unrest, mainly because Tevez was so unhappy about his presence. If there was a reluctance, however unconciously, to make him feel as much a part of the team as everyone else, coupled with the fans siding with Tevez and against him and Fergie, then it would have had a dampening effect on him and his performance. That would of course have been made far worse by the fiasco at the end of the season when Tevez left.
Over time such uncomfortable surroundings will affect the performance of most players, just as it would affect most of the posters on here if they were playing at United. They might not admit it on here, or even to themselves, but that sort of atmosphere can eventually wear down the toughest of folk. I've seen it myself in other professions....it doesn't just apply to footballers.
Time we learned how to support players when they are with us. It serves a purpose, they play better and we win games. If their performance suffers because of a lack of support we are the only losers.....the other teams win.
I suppose it depends who you meet when gauging opinions. Most non-United fans I know keep saying the same thing - "he's not really done it at United..." and I have to agree with them but I also say that a good player can look world-class in an average to above-average team, but play him in a team with world-class players - you dont stand out as much & the focus on you drops somewhat!
Personally there cant be any complaints, we all knew of his languid style before he came here. Fergie knew that before he went to Spurs from Leverkussen, he tried to buy him then but got caught up in the Hargreaves saga & he went to Spurs as United were pre-occupied.
If Fergie & Gill had of got the finger out & bought Berba for the price Spurs paid - £10.9 million, he would have come here 2 years early, without that massive pricetag & things might have been oh so different!
"Hindsight is a wonderful thing..." - bollox to that!
I heard about that actually. Berbatov bought this:
for Tevez' birthday, when Tevez really wanted tickets to go & see:
By the looks of it - they got off on the wrong foot. His apparantly:
Thanks MrK - appreciate it.
I wasn't inferring he only turned it on when we were already in control, rather that a significant percentage of his goals come when the pressure is off.
Ah yes, silly me, I forgot........only your posts on Berbatov are the ones that give the actual truth. We musn't consider anything ese.
Don't let me interrupt your obsessive agenda with a likely possibility.
Berba is a great player but he is not a United type of player and the system had rejected him. It happened to others before him including Veron.
good post this but:
* he may not have asked for his transfer fee, but he did ask for his wages. IIRC hes quite an expensive player
* I used to be a Berba basher in last season and i don't regreat that at all. This season he has been a better player and it staggers me that so few fans have noticed that.
* despite his progress and ability i never thought that he was what United needed last year and this year. nothing personal, it is his style which wasn't that different from his style at Spurs.
* basing on this season i'd not sell him. he is quite useful from time to time. but we do need another striker. If he stays next season he should be 3rd choice striker in our team. but i don't think we can afford that.
when did we sign him?
Is it? (I see you've now removed the sarcasm comment!)
No wit lower than that wit.
I noticed that too You really like double-posting your lame attempts at humour/analysis, don't you?
I watch and have watched most Spurs matches the last few years since my old man is a supporter of theirs and he usually looked very good for Spurs. His goal tally in all competitions has never exceeded the 25 mark and I think you are right, he was around 20 in all competitions in his 2 seasons with them. What was working at Spurs, is the actual way that other players were thriving from playing with him. Keane looked extremely good playing with him and actually this is what probably led to his Dipper transfer. So did Defoe, even though he was usually a sub.
I also think that with him a lot of it is a confidence matter. He came to United and was star-struck that he is even playing here, he never had the chance to take more of center-stage with Ronaldo and his 42 goal season and Rooney being the other 'mega-star' in the team. Not only this, but the fecking price tag is something that has weighed on him from the start. And he has said so himself on numerous occassions.
As I said earlier, Berba brought out the best in Keane imo.
He is more than a decent player. He is one of the most talented players currently playing, but it is a sad fact that for a number of reasons he has not been able to show this consistently at United.
Could also be the fact that I'm trying to do a few things at once. Course you wouldn't consider any other possibility than yours would you.
I got the details together a couple of days ago actually, but by the time I did the moment to use them had passed. Had a feeling someone else would mention them again
Although I notice I'd included his goal against Hull in the count, which came when we were 2-1 up, I've edited the post to say that.
Aye, fair enough. Personally I don't see anything in his goal scoring stats to suggest he only scores when the pressure is off, though. At worst only one third of his goals have come when the pressure's been off in a game, and as said earlier, a little over 40% of his goals have been our opening goals.
You're probably well ahead of me already when it comes to posting lame humour/analysis though, even allowing for that peculiar habit of double-posting.
Do people keep posting these two comments to reassure themselves, or do they actually think they're adding something to the discussion? I think we're past the stage of gauging the general opinion of him by now.
Sit back, relax for a minute and imagine how boring life would be without Berba at United?! What are you going to post about then?
BTW, there are some other threads and even different forums that you could venture into. Just thought I'd let you know.
This is nice, at least it's stopped you wittering on about Berba if nothing else.
He is actually. He is getting huge critisism especially after being dire in Bulgaria's world cup qualifying group. He is also getting a lot of stick over some weird blog thing that he does.
commadus isn't atom-smasher in disguise, is he?
You haven't actually seen the worse of Commandus than. This man is a one-man moaning army(yes, he moans about every thing not just berbatov)
Was atom-smasher a Tevez fanboi by any chance?
he was a prat of the highest magnitude
Just a quick point. Berbatov absolutely did not set his own transfer fee. What he did do was agree to sign for United even though he knew there would be lots of pressure on him to perform well and live up to his record breaking transfer fee. And he agreed to take home high wages for that job.
If he wasnt comfortable with his fee there was the option of not signing. If he wasnt comfortable with the superstar wages and the expectation that goes along with it, he could have asked for less. He accepted the task at hand when he signed. So he did agree with it.
If he wasnt comfortable with his fee there was the option of not signing. If he wasnt comfortable with the superstar wages and the expectation that goes along with it, he could have asked for less. He accepted the task at hand when he signed. So he did agree with it.
He never actually said it's the fans fault. Some players perform better when appreciated. Is it any wonder home teams have better win ratios?
BTW: There are better ways to debate your points without turning posters against yourself.
I think it's safe to assume Berbatov isn't feeling extra pressure because of the wages he's being paid.
Players often have to cope with the extra burden of being labelled an x million signing but I've never heard players labelled according to their weekly wage.
Players often have to cope with the extra burden of being labelled an x million signing but I've never heard players labelled according to their weekly wage.
You do need to chill out a bit Commadus
Relax your batty
Relax your batty
Who said anything about labels?
As one of the highest earners at the club there will be an expectation internally at least, that he is an important, indespensible member of the team.
If that doesnt happen time will start to run out. As well his wages will obviously affect what can be paid to other players and our wage structure.
Shevchenko is one example. He would have been fine staying at Chelsea as a backup in terms of quality and what he could provide the squad, but shelling out on his wages to sit on the bench each week meant that it was a good idea to get him out on loan instead. So even moneybags Chelsea looked to remedy the situation.
He did get stick, but it was the whole team, not just him. But being the team captain and biggest star, it is automatic that he got most criticism directed at him. The team was shite overall and lost points in matches that were a 'given' on paper.
As for the blog, he made a statement a couple of weeks ago on his blog directed at a number of the Bulgarian media who have been criticizing him both over his national side performances but mostly, over his United performances. The funny thing is that most of these local journalists would base their articles on the stuff that is being spewed on a daily basis by the English press.
None of that has anything with your last post, which talked about wages and the expectation that comes with them.
Whatever pressure and expectation that has been placed on Berbatov due to the financial details surrounding his transfer to United has everything to do with the widely publicised transfer fee and feck all to with his wages.
because transfer fees have bigger impact on your perception Pogue
what's mere 180, 000 pounds a week compared to 80 000 000 pound transfer fee.
and wages do get reported.
I think the wages are calculated based on the transfer fee and the length of the contract. And for the record, I don't think he was in position to demand any more money, than initially offered by United... giving the dead line approaching and his desire to move on. If something, I am inclined to think, that he accepted less
It has everything to do with it. He needs to perform to the levels you'd expect of one of our highest earners, or the club will look to find another solution. They arent going to continue paying him high wages to sit out the big matches. Thats pressure and expectation.
If he was on much lower wages it would be a lot more likely that we'd be fine with him being a backup, and possibly bringing in someone else to start instead of him. But thats very unlikely to be a possibility in our financial situation. We need our highest paid players actually on the pitch trying to win us champions league matches and the 6 point matches against our title rivals. Even the richest clubs would look to change the situation.
That the word "factor" is used in both?
You make decent points at times when you put your mind to it, Commadus, but your guerilla debating tactics are extremely tiresome.
That answers precisely nothing, nor does it add anything to the debate.
You're not very good at this, are you?
The transfer fee is the biggest factor in the pressure he is under due to what we paid for him. The wages would have been similar whether we paid 20m for him or 30m. Why are you going off on this tangent anyway?
Are you so determined to try and blame Berbatov for the added pressure that comes with his inflated fee that you're actually trying to claim he should have asked for lower wages, to try and reduce the expectations that would be put upon him? That's absurd.
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