He would fit into any team that plays slower, build-up football with a lot of passing that does not rely on speed as a main component of their game.
Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances
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He would fit into any team that plays slower, build-up football with a lot of passing that does not rely on speed as a main component of their game.
He's got 8 assists this season actually, so 26 goals and 19 assists in 83 appearances.
I'd say we're doing pretty well if our most disappointing player is contributing more than a goal every other game.
Some sites state is as 4 assists and others as 6 this season. But I support your point.
I could have sworn that the last time I had a look (I forget where) some sites said 6 and some said 8, with the difference being counting being brought down for a freekick scored from as an assist (like with penalties).
I may look into this more manually now though
I may look into this more manually now though
He's "been missing the last few weeks", eh? A lot of people have said this but I think it's very harsh and is mainly down people being pissed off at our CL/PL hopes going up in smoke and looking for a scapegoat.
In reality, Berbatov has failed to deliver in two tough but important games, in the space of a single week. Against Chelsea and Blackburn. These were the type of games in which Rooney could have had an equally ineffective game - as he did in similar games against Villa, Brum, Everton and Chelsea (away) but it looks as though a significant proportion of our fans have decided these two games are the nail in Berbatov's coffin. If we look back at the season as a whole, we've had more bad performances/results in games that Berbatov didn't start (Burnley, Villa(x2), Brum, Fulham) than in games that he did (Chelsea, Blackburn, Liverpool, Everton) Also worth bearing in mind that the points dropped in games without him were easier fixtures on paper. Despite all this, for some reason, the most recent two league games are seen as the defining moments in our season and Berbatov is the primary culprit for us failing to win the league.
What's really fecking weird, though, is that he's also getting blamed for us crashing out of Europe. This conveniently ignores the fact that Rooney played a full 90 minutes of the leg in which we were most badly overrun and Berbatov only got 10 minutes of the second leg, when we were down to 10 men and under the cosh. There's an assumption that it's his fault Fergie started Rooney but how much of that is down to the incompetence of Berbatov and how much down to the brilliance of Rooney? (who really has been superb this season) Fergie is absolutely adamant that the medics gave Rooney a clean bill of health and he presumably passed a rigorous fitness test. Is it too much to ask to take what he says at face value?
If you look beyond those two games and consider his contribution in the "last few weeks" he's actually done quite well. Just under a month ago, he got a goal and a (fantastic) assist against Fulham. The very next game he started (just over two weeks ago) he led the line in a tricky away game against Bolton and scored two goals, playing his part in an impressive 4 nil victory; the last game he started before Chelsea. Both of those games/performances were completely forgotten about after we got beaten by Chelsea and drew with Blackburn, despite the warning signs against Bayern away that our whole team was starting to dip in form (with or without Berbatov).
feck it though. It looks as though the match-going fans have made their mind up and that alone might be enough for Fergie to consider his options. I can't pretend that I haven't been disappointed with Berbatov's overall career at United these last two seasons and I'll admit he hasn't turned out to be the player I thought he would be when we signed him. I just think it's a crying shame that the fans have so quick to get on his back and so reluctant to acknowledge his improved contribution in his second season at the club, when the loss of Tevez and Ronaldo put enormous pressure on the creative players in the team - like Berbatov - to compensate for their absence (which we almost managed, against all the odds).
I think the attitude of the fans is arguably a bigger factor in his possible exit than what he did or didn't do on the pitch.
So you look for other factors for our defeat in the games he didn't feature, yet ignore them in the games in which he did? And then you lecture me about using "spurious" stats?
Birmimngham have a great record at home, do they? What about Blackburn? Are they pushovers? Or did I imagine them drawing with Chelsea at Ewood Park, just a couple of weeks back? No great surprise you mention "defensive problems" against Villa/Fulham (despite Vidic starting against Villa at home) while ignoring the absence of Rio/Vidic from the Everton game. I would also say the absence of our best player - and the league's top scorer - was fairly fecking important when we lost to Chelsea and Blackburn, wouldn't you?
Missing Wayne is fairly important but like Phelan said that's when players like Berba should come in and show everybody why he was brought to United.
And Phelan was correct. I'm sure we all wanted Berbatov to be a match-winner in those games and the fact he wasn't is a blot in his copy-book.
What I'm taking issue with here is this assumption he's gone missing for the last few weeks and a refusal to consider that we could just as easily have dropped points in those two league games even if Rooney was fit and available.
In fact, I would argue dropped points in those two was actually a fairly likely outcome, after watching the utter shit we served up in Munich, our horrendous record in league games the weekend after European aways and Blackburn's recent result against Chelsea.
Pogue, your opinions are well considered, in what circumstances could you see Berbatov being a CONSISTENTLY effective striker for United? We've seen him almost two full seasons now, and he has wonderful moments, but never consistently. His languid style doesn't help, but personally I don't care if he looks like that, it's his regular contribution that I am looking for.
If Fergie is sold on the 4-5-1, or 4-3-3, either of which includes Nani and Valencia as the wide options, then it will always be Rooney at the point of attack. That will never be Berbatov.
On the other hand, playing him up with Rooney still poses problems because Rooney still hasn't lost his habit of dropping back deep either.
Look, Berbatov will always SCORE goals but I was watching poor old Macheda making runs on Sunday and instead of getting SOME kind of forward ball from Berbatov, he was left frustrated with Berbatov turning back into our midfield.
If we keep him, then fine, and in retrospect, we may all adopt a positive attitude as to our competition-progress this year having lost Tevez, Ronaldo, and a lack of a full defensive unit for a couple of months. In the meanwhile, Berbatov continues to disappoint because we WANT him to pull the strings up front, but he doesn't.
I'm afraid when it comes to Berbatov, it's always a big sigh and roll of the eyes.
You have to admit the general view on Berbatov from fans is pretty negative and critical.
Thing is if you're going to be at a top club you're going to have to expect that, you have to have the mentality to push through it.
So even though the fans' attitude is detrimental, it's only because Berbatov's showing to be a bit weak mentally. Berbatov's culpable even then.
Thing is if you're going to be at a top club you're going to have to expect that, you have to have the mentality to push through it.
So even though the fans' attitude is detrimental, it's only because Berbatov's showing to be a bit weak mentally. Berbatov's culpable even then.
I think its best to leave this. Most of us have a mixed opinion on Berba's time here & its a case of positives & negatives. The problem we have is we're probably comparing him to Rooney far too much & what he brings to the team. Rooney's a class above Berba - but only he, Pennant & Messi are on that level at the moment!
Maybe all our expectations of Berba we're too high - media included. Overhyped in the media etc & ultimately strangled by the price-tag.
I think everyone's been waiting for the real spark to ignite & we'll see Supa-Berba, but I dont feel Berbatov will get any better than he is now especially considering his age. Maybe we just have to accept that Berba's a different animal to how our counter-attacking style operates & he gives us a different option!
He's still a very good player but we need alot more than that to compete for the Prem & Champs League. Rooney's been pretty-much carrying us in the goal-scoring dept this season, but when he's been injured we've sadly looked less of a goal-threat & thats cost us dearly!
Maybe all our expectations of Berba we're too high - media included. Overhyped in the media etc & ultimately strangled by the price-tag.
I think everyone's been waiting for the real spark to ignite & we'll see Supa-Berba, but I dont feel Berbatov will get any better than he is now especially considering his age. Maybe we just have to accept that Berba's a different animal to how our counter-attacking style operates & he gives us a different option!
He's still a very good player but we need alot more than that to compete for the Prem & Champs League. Rooney's been pretty-much carrying us in the goal-scoring dept this season, but when he's been injured we've sadly looked less of a goal-threat & thats cost us dearly!
I understand what you are saying but in my opinion what is happening with the fans is just the climax of their displeasure of him for two seasons. The stats may say he runs more than anybody but his style of play is always going to frustrate when you see him strolling, jogging etc and if his languid style is not producing amazing results people are going to show their displeasure. When he sprays the ball out wide and doesn't bust a gut to receive it, alot of people on here may say he's not a headless chicken but this is extremely annoying for fans.
I don't think this was ever down to two games, I think this is the results of two seasons of being underwhelmed and try as they might, I don't think fans can ever love his style of play. It's a factor in my opinion. Look at how many goals he scores for Bulgaira but isn't he on a end of a backlash over there.
You make a lot of fair points and I do still struggle to see how we're going to get the best out of Berbatov (or even if we can get the best out of him)
What I do think we can conclude from the season gone by is that he's been really important in helping us trounce the teams from lower down the league. It's easy to take beating these teams for granted but one of Ronaldo's most important roles in the team was turning a nervous one nil into a rout and I was worried we'd miss his contribution as a flat track bully (not that he was only a flat-track bully but you get my point) Our record against these weaker teams with/without Berbatov speaks for itself, as does our impressive haul of goals this season.
What we can also conclude is that he's not a natural as a lone striker and there is a noticeable lack in our quality of performance when we substitute him for Rooney in a 451. This is partly down to how amazing Rooney is but it's fair to say that Berbatov isn't aggresive enough or mobile enough to make the system work when he's up top on his own.
All of which leaves us with a conundrum about how we cope when Rooney's unavailable and we need to play 451. I don't know the answer to that one, to be honest, but I still think Berbatov could be an imporrtant player for us in the coming seasons, even if it is as a flat-track bully.
Thats a fair point
Its not just United fans that have/had reservations about Berbatovs play, Spurs & Bulgarian fans have/had the same up & down opinions of him too!
From one pompous twat to another, I suggest you avoid basic spelling errors if you're going to sneer at another poster's vernacular.
Even against the lower teams Pogue, how many times did Berba actually open the scoring? I remember games like the one against Hull where Rooney literally ran the show for Berba to score a tap in at the dying minuites. How many times does he truly show how important he is to us? He just seems to give off the impression that he gets carried through this, anyway I don't mind Berba staying but I do believe we need a good striker upfront to partner Wayne. Hopefully Madrid are stupid enough to sell us Benzema, the only problem is having a striker on his (Berba's) wages to occupy the bench, I'm not too sure how many clubs in our debt does this.
Never mind Berbatov's wages, can we afford to pay for all Benzema's pies? Did you see him in the Barca game? He's fat as butter.
Yeah but he looked super fit for Lyon, looks like he's lost his motivation at the Circus, Sir Alex will whip him into shape.
I hope
I kinda see your "flat-track bully" point. But he doesn't do it often enough. Perhaps if he did, there would be multiple benefits. Not only would he build up his obviously dubious mental resolve, it would also get fans off his back.
I still struggle to perceive HOW he played so well for Spurs. By consensus he enjoyed his most fruitful games when paired with Keane. As far as possible, wouldn't you say Keane is a bit like Rooney - pops up wide as well as being in the box. In which case why doesn't Berbatov seem such an enigma when playing with Rooney?
I guess I'm not in a minority given that Fergie does not seem to have worked it out either!
I didn't watch alot of Spurs when he played for them but I bet it's quite overstated how much has changed since he came to us, we only saw highlighs on match of the day and Berbatov can still look great going by that whilst playing for us.
Isn't his highest League tally for Spurs 15 anyway, and didn't he score 4 goals against Reading once, I doubt things have changed THAT much, it's just the spotlight is on his every move even more over here so what is overlooked over there is not over here.
Isn't his highest League tally for Spurs 15 anyway, and didn't he score 4 goals against Reading once, I doubt things have changed THAT much, it's just the spotlight is on his every move even more over here so what is overlooked over there is not over here.
I can't claim to have watched him at Spurs much either. I only really watched their games against the top four.
I can confirm he looked class in whatever Spurs games I did watch (most memorably when they creamed l'Arse in the Carling Cup) that he had a good goal-scoring record against Chelsea and that he their most potent threat every time Spurs played United.
I also know that the Spurs fans absolutely loved him. I wouldn't be surprised if the unstinting affection he received from the terraces was a factor in him being such an effective player for them.
Fair enough, I'm not going to go with the ol cliche and say "why can't he do it for us" because none of us truly know how well he played consistently and even Keane was great against alot of those sides but nobody would ever suggest him coming here.
Only GlastonSpur could tell us if he showed the quality to be at a club like United I guess.
5 out of his 12 goals were our first goals in the games they were scored in. He opened our scoring against Stoke (A), Sunderland (H), Blackburn (H), Burnley (H), Everton (A)
Thanks for that.
Always good to see widely held misconceptions corrected with actual facts.
Fair play, his goal against Sunderland was a cracker too
Gee, I'm sure I've read that somewhere before
It was just as meaningless the first I read it, fwiw. What's the difference between being judged game by game and minute by minute? Every game consists of 90 minutes, the sum of which add up to their overall performance in that game.
I must say I was expecting Cantona like performances based on his performances for Spurs. To state the obvious he has not lived up to our expectation. Still some of his touches and vision is sublime. Best I've ever seen. However, he has not performed consistently, and more importantly he changes our style more suited to the Italian league.
Anyway those who think it's a simple case of selling him might be in for a shock. It's easier to sell good players from smaller clubs moving to a bigger club, however with the transfer fees involved and very high salary it might not be an easy transfer out - if SAF is even considering a sale.
Anyway those who think it's a simple case of selling him might be in for a shock. It's easier to sell good players from smaller clubs moving to a bigger club, however with the transfer fees involved and very high salary it might not be an easy transfer out - if SAF is even considering a sale.
Probably. I reckon a lot of those excuses make a lot more sense than that "minute by minute vs game by game" nonsense, so no great surprise they've been made by a few different people.
At Spurs, they're just grateful when they win a few games playing flash football, when they lose, it's par for the course, like always. Got to be a very different environment to come into for Berba being at a club where winning is paramount and a good game is only valid for the 3-7 days till the next fixture.
At Spurs a great moment is celebrated all season, here, if the game was lost, that moment gets swept aside amidst a tide of misery.
On another note, is this the most stick a United player has ever recieved on here?
From the euphoria of the Berba transfer thread to this?
Mental.
True, remember when they drew with Arsenal at hom, Jenas scoring in the last minuite, you would think they have won the champions league
I like Spurs fans and their support is fantastic, I just hate how they bottle every situation
Usually new players get that benefit of doubt from the fans, they get support and fans are patient with new players.
Now, how important it was that Berbatov was brought to replace and preferred over fans’ favorite- Tevez? I don’t think that fans were hostile towards Berbatov but he might not have the same support other new players get.
Any match goers can comment?
Over where man?
True, remember when they drew with Arsenal at hom, Jenas scoring in the last minuite, you would think they have won the champions league
I like Spurs fans and their support is fantastic, I just hate how they never bottle any situation
**Fixed as preventative of commentators Jinx**
See Saturday 24th April for further details!
And just to play devil's advocate, how many of his other 7 were scored when we were 2 or more up?
You're not the first person to say that by any means.
I've had a good few people tell me the same.....supporters of other teams though, they don't seem as critical of him as our fans.
The thing is most berba detractors completely dismiss his ability completely and lay into him because of his transfer fee for which he is not the one who should shoulder any responsibility. It was Fergie and the club's decision. Its easy to see why berba was bought and the amount of ability he has and how he brought a new dimension to the squad. But over the course of 2 seasons now, it is also clear to see that to incorporate his style into our play, we have to compromise on our usual style of football, the style we play and aspire to play.
Another fair criticism of berbatov imo would be his mental fragility. Being under constant scrutiny and spotlight is not something he relishes and that affects his play. He's been much too anxious on the field for his own good which subsequently affects the team's fortunes whether in a small or a big way.
The conclusion imo is that berbatov is a very talented player but not suited to our style of football. Him being mentally fragile is another hindrance. And the good thing for both sides would be to move on to different avenues because berba is better than this and he could thrive much more elsewhere, a club which suits his style.
As for the berba bashers, criticism is fine and yes berba deserves it to some extent and is obviously not suited to our team. But to bash him on the basis of transfer fee is uncalled for. Even completely ridiculing his contribution is stupid and naive. He obviously hasnt played a starring role, yes but has made some useful contributions at times.
Another fair criticism of berbatov imo would be his mental fragility. Being under constant scrutiny and spotlight is not something he relishes and that affects his play. He's been much too anxious on the field for his own good which subsequently affects the team's fortunes whether in a small or a big way.
The conclusion imo is that berbatov is a very talented player but not suited to our style of football. Him being mentally fragile is another hindrance. And the good thing for both sides would be to move on to different avenues because berba is better than this and he could thrive much more elsewhere, a club which suits his style.
As for the berba bashers, criticism is fine and yes berba deserves it to some extent and is obviously not suited to our team. But to bash him on the basis of transfer fee is uncalled for. Even completely ridiculing his contribution is stupid and naive. He obviously hasnt played a starring role, yes but has made some useful contributions at times.
That was class man. I thought you meant it tho. In the future if a post comes off as a bit silly & grammatically (had to spellcheck that fecker) wobbly, pretend you meant it & milk it further, thats how most roll round here man
That was class man. I thought you meant it tho. In the future if a post comes off as a bit silly & grammatically (had to spellcheck that fecker) wobbly, pretend you meant it & milk it further, thats how most roll round here man
fair play my man, will do.- Status