Has anyone mentioned that he's bobbins yet? 
Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances
- Thread starter Rood
- Start date
- Status
I really feel for the guy. I really like him, but it's just not falling into place for him. He isn't being played against the big teams, he is played out of his best position, he was injured, it's just not clicking.
He tries to hard, he has modified his game, I look at him running around like Tevez/Rooney just to appease the spastics, and it's not a good feeling personally. He could have used the fans' backing, instead of "OMG why we solded tevez and bought berbatov omg not running!!11". One idiot even labeled him the cause for our loss last night.
I hope he isn't sold.
He tries to hard, he has modified his game, I look at him running around like Tevez/Rooney just to appease the spastics, and it's not a good feeling personally. He could have used the fans' backing, instead of "OMG why we solded tevez and bought berbatov omg not running!!11". One idiot even labeled him the cause for our loss last night.
I hope he isn't sold.
I don't think Berbatov is likely to leave in the summer. The main reason he doesn't have much chance of finding his best form right now is because we're playing 4-5-1 in almost every game, which is clearly not a formation that suits his qualities.
We didn't start out the season playing this way though, initially it was just in the tougher games, but halfway through the season Ferguson decides we need to play this way in the majority of our games. That's not because Berbatov and Owen were so bad that it was decided we were better off without, it's because we clearly had weaknesses in the centre of the pitch. Scholes and Giggs were a year older, Anderson hadn't progressed as well as had been hoped, and Hargreaves didn't make a comeback as was expected.
Like last season Ferguson says he didn't use Berbatov correctly, I think this season will be seen as one in which for the large part he wasn't able to use him correctly. If the midfield issues can be addressed in the summer, whether it be with new arrivals or progression with younger players, they'll help greatly in us getting the most out of Berbatov.
We didn't start out the season playing this way though, initially it was just in the tougher games, but halfway through the season Ferguson decides we need to play this way in the majority of our games. That's not because Berbatov and Owen were so bad that it was decided we were better off without, it's because we clearly had weaknesses in the centre of the pitch. Scholes and Giggs were a year older, Anderson hadn't progressed as well as had been hoped, and Hargreaves didn't make a comeback as was expected.
Like last season Ferguson says he didn't use Berbatov correctly, I think this season will be seen as one in which for the large part he wasn't able to use him correctly. If the midfield issues can be addressed in the summer, whether it be with new arrivals or progression with younger players, they'll help greatly in us getting the most out of Berbatov.
eee what?
I think it was away defeats to Liverpool and Chelsea early in the season where we didnt look like scoring at all that Fergie decided enough was enough with Berbatov and that he couldnt be trusted to play in the big games anymore even with Rooney beside him. He has had so many chances against the big teams but never once has done the business. He is an excellent squad player to have when we are playing weaker teams and I hope he stays but if Fergie can offload him for a younger more energetic player that plays a similar role then I won't loose sleep!
Do you see him chasing and hurrying and trying to press now, for the last few weeks at least? The main problem Berba-bashers had with him was that he didn't "run as much as Tevez/Rooney" (although Opta stats for last season showed that he ran MORE than both Tevez and Rooney (not combined, individually)). So now I'm guessing his whole new gimmick is to win over those fans.
But like SAF said last week, he's not scoring 50 goals a month with over-head kicks, so people will always have a problem with him until he does.
oh yeah stats....opta stats don't distinguish between jogging and spiriting, they don't tell where the run took place and whether it made sense or not.
and the latter part? where / when did SAF say this?
I think so too, but not because he was shite in those games (and there were worse players than him on the pitch in both the games), but because Fergie now chooses 4-5-1 as his preferred formation in the big games, and with Rooney scoring well, Berbatov isn't getting any chances (and when he has, he hasn't done GREAT either anyway).
He didn't start against Chelsea, and we played very well in that match and merited a draw.
Liverpool was a poor all round performance.
If one is sprinting for 90 minutes, and another is jogging, the former would have covered more distance than the latter in the same time-frame. So if Tevez sprinted for the whole 90 minutes, he should have covered more distance than Berbatov. It certainly isn't the case, hence, either all the three jogged (with Rooney and Tevez jogging slower than Berbatov), or Berbatov did what he was asked to do.
Not to mention Berbatov had more successful tackles than the both of them as well.
Why Dimitar Berbatov is set to win over his Manchester United doubters | Daniel Taylor | Football | The GuardianSAF said:
Would you say that Rooney, Evra, Valencia and Fletcher have been 4 of the most hard working and valuable players for us over this season?
he only played in one of those, against Liverpool, and the whole team were a bit crap. In that game we played Giggs, Scholes, Valencia and Carrick in midfield. Next we beat Barnsley, which says nothing, and then Blackburn at home with a 4-4-2 - Berbatov played in this and scored. Then a 4-4-2 against CSKA at home, Owen and Macheda lead the line, we drew 3-3. Next game was against Chelsea, and we switch to a 4-5-1, dominated Chelsea, and were extremely unlucky to lose. This is why Ferguson switched to a formation that doesn't suit Berbatov.
From this point on, we used 4-5-1 in all the games except the easiest fixtures like Wolves, Hull, West Ham etc. We tried 4-4-2 again against Everton, lost 3-1. This isn't a striking problem, this is a midfield problem.
I'm a great believer in Berbatov, but Fergie's actions suggest he sees him as a flat track bully as much as anything. He isn't starting big games, and when he does, it seems to be under sufferance. I simply can't believe that if he had faith in Berbatov to deliver the goods when he needed him to, that Rooney would either have started last night, or lasted as long as he did.
So if he doesn't fancy him against strong opposition, I can only see him being marginalised more and more in future. If, for example, someone like Macheda is being used in games like Chelsea next season, and he shows well, then it stands to reason that Berba will drop down the pecking order, or at least find his path to the first team for important games even more difficult than at the moment.
It would be a great shame, but top players at top clubs can't live off of putting lesser teams to the sword. I still believe that he could be that player for us, but the less chances he gets, the less likely he'll show that. Otherwise he may have to settle for being very much an expensive rotation player, who plays 20-30 games a season.
So if he doesn't fancy him against strong opposition, I can only see him being marginalised more and more in future. If, for example, someone like Macheda is being used in games like Chelsea next season, and he shows well, then it stands to reason that Berba will drop down the pecking order, or at least find his path to the first team for important games even more difficult than at the moment.
It would be a great shame, but top players at top clubs can't live off of putting lesser teams to the sword. I still believe that he could be that player for us, but the less chances he gets, the less likely he'll show that. Otherwise he may have to settle for being very much an expensive rotation player, who plays 20-30 games a season.
Well I do remember in our golden seasons a few years back, with Ronaldo and Rooney plus Tevez and whoever else on form, we sometimes had trouble breaking down organised teams who put 11 men behind the ball. Often times we relied on individual brilliance from Ronaldo to nick a goal out of nowhere. I don't think it's a bad thing to have a player who can unlock a defence in these sorts of situations.
We all accept this is a squad game now, so why not have players who specialise in dealing with difficult situations like those? The points are just as important, and even his detractors say that they're the games he does well in.
Simple question:
If Tevez was still at the club, would he have started last night? IMO without doubt.
That answer alone most probably spells the end of Dimi. I hope he can still prove me wrong but it feels like a case of wrong player, wrong time.
If Tevez was still at the club, would he have started last night? IMO without doubt.
That answer alone most probably spells the end of Dimi. I hope he can still prove me wrong but it feels like a case of wrong player, wrong time.
Berbatov is similar to Veron with regards to elegant/clever play.
Are we better suited to a cut and thrust player who might be less thoughtful and more impulsive?
Are we better suited to a cut and thrust player who might be less thoughtful and more impulsive?
I agree to a point, but it's arguable that it's not the best idea that you have a player who knows he won't play his part in the biggest games without injury etc. Especially if that's because his manager doesn't have faith in his ability against those sorts of teams. Which I'm starting to believe that Fergie doesn't, even if he says otherwise (whether or not he's right to think that, if indeed he does, is another issue).
Tevez has proven this season he can do the business upfront, look at his goal vs Chelsea, just one big lump up forward and he played their center backs all by himself. His hold up play and strength on the ball is fantastic for a short guy, and the way he attacks space is second to none to initate counters.
That's my only true regret with getting rid of Tevez, he was 24, a bloody youngster, he was always going to get better as he's always showed the potential.
That's my only true regret with getting rid of Tevez, he was 24, a bloody youngster, he was always going to get better as he's always showed the potential.
So it seems sadly.
Maybe so, but that's because he's more likely to occupy their centre backs on his own than Berbatov is. They clearly have different styles of play, and one is a lot more suited to playing lone(ly) frontman. This says nothing about how useful Berbatov is in other attacking roles.
Like I said to Sharky above, that just obviously isn't a position that suits him best. Although personally speaking I think Berbatov would have had a better chance of giving us time to push out and relieve pressure last night than Nani. I think we're forced to play in this style because of the state of our midfield at the moment, but with a little tweaking and a little luck, this shouldn't be the case so much next season.
We missed out on Tevez because he was too expensive. The fecking 2 year 10 mil a year loan deal cost us signature. Oh well. I'm sure we're gonna end up with someone miles better eventually. Big strong and Italian:
We missed out on Tevez because he was too expensive. The fecking 2 year 10 mil a year loan deal cost us signature. Oh well. I'm sure we're gonna end up with someone miles better eventually. Big strong and Italian:
Who are you referring to, Chiefy? Balotelli?
We missed out on Tevez because he was too expensive. The fecking 2 year 10 mil a year loan deal cost us signature. Oh well. I'm sure we're gonna end up with someone miles better eventually. Big strong and Italian:
Yep, that was one of the Chief's gayer posts...
We missed out on Tevez because he was too expensive. The fecking 2 year 10 mil a year loan deal cost us signature. Oh well. I'm sure we're gonna end up with someone miles better eventually. Big strong and Italian:
Macheda
it sure came out dreadfully that
While its true they both try to do technical/impressive play, the damning part of that comparison is Veron did the job on big european nights. It was the premier league he didnt really earn his place, but in europe we wanted him in the side.
Its the opposite with Berbatov, and not even that. Big games in europe? Nope. Big games in the league? Nope. Easy teams? Alright then. Thats no good, plain and simple. If he was unconvincing in the league but made the difference in europe we'd be more likely to keep him. But even that way around it didnt save Veron.
Harsh but very true
thanks for the article mate. in regards to running- i don't really get your point, the truth is quite the opposite- the slower you run the more distance you are able to cover. just check out the pace of marathon runs
yes.
I really hope you are right about that.
wrong thread, its not "i want your pics" thread
true?
I think the fact that an injured rooney was started over and above a fit Berbatov, that tells me that Fergie has lost hope in him.
But we will see what happens, if he can pull things together in the next few weeks then he may just save his place in the squad. He is an excellant player but things aren't working for him at the minute...
But we will see what happens, if he can pull things together in the next few weeks then he may just save his place in the squad. He is an excellant player but things aren't working for him at the minute...
It makes sense to me, and not a whole lot of the other theories do. Berbatov has already scored as many league goals this season as Rooney did in his last two seasons (and probably in less minutes). Rooney was playing second fiddle to Ronaldo those seasons, and this season Berbatov's playing second fiddle to Rooney (or maybe even 3rd or 4th). Regardless of who they're scored against, Rooney played against similar teams in the previous seasons. The goals still count, and he has scored ones that matters.
With a proper midfield behind him I think both himself AND Rooney can perform even better next season.
'Proper midfield' bloody eck, ever since the Chelsea game. Is our midfield not better than that of Spurs, maybe it's down to Berba underperforming?
I am a big fan of his skills and he is an important squad player no doubt but at the end of the day how many times has Berbs scored important goals in big games against top teams in 2 years? I can't remember any, not one!! That what separates a world class player such as Robben, Tevez, Drogba from a top class player such as Ashley Young or Tim Cahill and Berbs fits into the top class player category unfortunately!
- Status