If we had a player like Tevez we could have gave Rooney another days rest and played him up top!
Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances
- Thread starter Rood
- Start date
- Status
If we had a player like Tevez we could have gave Rooney another days rest and played him up top!
spot fecking on.
There we go, at least some people see it rationally.
Just because he can't dominate when played as a lone striker with no support against the league leaders, and isn't all that likely to get a goal in 10 minutes in a team a man down against Munich, it hardly means he's "shit".
especially if he's never given the ball by one of the poorest midfields in ( my ) living memory
Not really. He can't both win the midfield battle that the rest of our team seemed resigned to losing AND score the goal that would have taken us through.
No one is saying he should have won us the game, but again, he came on with 20 mins to go or so, so fresh, and full of energy (ok, Berbatov style, but still........) and didn't chase down the ball hard or put much pressure on the Bayern midfielders or defenders. Nani had been furthest forward until he came on, yet after he came on I still saw more effort from Nani trying to put pressure on Bayern in their own half.
Sell him back to Spurs for 15m.
Oh god its you again.
He came on in the 80th minute (or 79.xx if you're being pedantic), and for the remaining 13 minutes of the game the Bayern players just passed the ball around our midfield for about 8 minutes. Whenever we did get possession we only had it for about 20 seconds at a time until one of our players either shot wide or the Byaern defenders mopped up. Either he's up front waiting for the ball (bear in mind that he did create more than one chance with a header on to another player after a long ball forward) or he's running around trying to win the ball back like a crazed Roy Keane/Bryan Robson/Duncan Edwards fusion (in which case when he does win it back - as he does more often that he's given credit for - he's slaughtered on here for not getting into the box). Frgie could have sent on an striker we've had in the last 5 decades and it wouldn't have made a difference.
Also surely I'm not the only one that actually saw him running? The way some people are going on today its like he came on and sort of walked around a bit.
Our central midfield is crap. Berba is as fitting as a lone striker as VDS. That's all folks.
Berbatov was never shit, he just isn't any use to us really. The Cantona comparisons have been proven obsolete now so there's no excuse for his mellow approach on the pitch - it's not impressing me anyway.
I'm not being knee-jerk here and I've always maintained a patient stance with him, but really if I think 2 seasons is enough to determine he's not United quality, nevermind £30million quality.
If we could offload him for around £15million then I'd say we'd do well. Providing injuries don't get the best of us then a strikeforce of Rooney (who's really come to his own as an orthodox CF), Owen, Macheda, Welbeck, Diouf would more than suffice. We can always bring in another but it's not entirely that necessary.
All we need now is a half-decent midfield to complement our strikeforce, perhaps that's where the Berbafund could be invested should SAF choose to offload our Bulgarian.
I'm not being knee-jerk here and I've always maintained a patient stance with him, but really if I think 2 seasons is enough to determine he's not United quality, nevermind £30million quality.
If we could offload him for around £15million then I'd say we'd do well. Providing injuries don't get the best of us then a strikeforce of Rooney (who's really come to his own as an orthodox CF), Owen, Macheda, Welbeck, Diouf would more than suffice. We can always bring in another but it's not entirely that necessary.
All we need now is a half-decent midfield to complement our strikeforce, perhaps that's where the Berbafund could be invested should SAF choose to offload our Bulgarian.
How much would we get for him in the transfer market? 10 million if we are lucky?
Bayern maybe
Bayern maybe
Maybe one of the Serie A clubs would want him.
Berbatov is just not the man to play uptop on his own. Hes no Rooney, Torres, Tevez or Drogba who do the work of two men up there.
Hes fine when hes in a 442 and were dominating position.
This is why we should have bought a forward, or even kept hold of one, that could play the lone striker role.
That decision may have cost us the league and getting to another CL final.
That lone striker role is so crucial to the way we play in the big game - its almost like us not having a sub keeper.
Hes fine when hes in a 442 and were dominating position.
This is why we should have bought a forward, or even kept hold of one, that could play the lone striker role.
That decision may have cost us the league and getting to another CL final.
That lone striker role is so crucial to the way we play in the big game - its almost like us not having a sub keeper.
There is nothing wrong with our central midfield.
They made Bayern Munich look like Barcelona for most of the second half last night
Probably because we were down to ten men.
The midfield seems a bit impotent though when Rooney or rather a proper central striker isn't around.
This morning as I was about my business I thought of an analody that sums up my views about Berbs. It is an oversimplification but I think it makes the point.
If you have a car and you decide to buy a new fuel injection system for it, you have to make sure it is compatable with what you have. If you have a Porsche, but you go out and buy a fuel injection system designed for a Lotus, it isnt going to work. In that instance, who is the cnut? The fuel injection system? The Porsche? Or the guy who bought the wrong part?
A decent mechanic can obviously customise parts to fit his car. A decent mechanic can build a really great, fully customised motor from a variety of parts. Fergie is obviously a great mecahanic, he has been building cars that have been winning races and looking great for years. But on this occasion he bought a very specific type of a part, with a very specific set of qualities, and then tried to bend and twist it into something else, without making the necessary adjustments to the car to make it fit.
In retrospect I have no idea why he was so desperate to get Berbatov. He doesnt fit into the team. Fergie isnt willing to play 2 up front and Berbs cant play up front on his own. Maybe it is 20/20 hindsight but if Fergie knew he was going to play Rooney up front on his own, you'd have thought he would have spent £30m on a player who was also capable of playing up front on his own.
If you have a car and you decide to buy a new fuel injection system for it, you have to make sure it is compatable with what you have. If you have a Porsche, but you go out and buy a fuel injection system designed for a Lotus, it isnt going to work. In that instance, who is the cnut? The fuel injection system? The Porsche? Or the guy who bought the wrong part?
A decent mechanic can obviously customise parts to fit his car. A decent mechanic can build a really great, fully customised motor from a variety of parts. Fergie is obviously a great mecahanic, he has been building cars that have been winning races and looking great for years. But on this occasion he bought a very specific type of a part, with a very specific set of qualities, and then tried to bend and twist it into something else, without making the necessary adjustments to the car to make it fit.
In retrospect I have no idea why he was so desperate to get Berbatov. He doesnt fit into the team. Fergie isnt willing to play 2 up front and Berbs cant play up front on his own. Maybe it is 20/20 hindsight but if Fergie knew he was going to play Rooney up front on his own, you'd have thought he would have spent £30m on a player who was also capable of playing up front on his own.
So essentially you're calling Fergie a cnut.
I know you're not but I hope this spawns some kind of hilarious over reaction
I know you're not but I hope this spawns some kind of hilarious over reaction
Im saying we are all cnuts from time to time. Fergie less than most. But in this instance, yes, he has been a bit of a cnut.
neither do i, I was against signing him in the first place and so far i haven't seen much to change my mind. He has had a good run of games recently, he also scored some nice/ important goals but he hasn't performed as we expected.
I think the idea was he would be a strike partner to get the best from Rooney. Berbatov would be the target man and Rooney would play off him as that was considered Rooney's best position at the time. And Fergie is always after players who can 'unlock defenses' with a bit of magic and he thought Berbatov would fit that role as well.
Yes except we play Rooney up front on his own. What is the point in buying a strike partner for £30m and then deciding you are going to play one up front?
I still think Berbs would make a very good strike partner for Rooney, Id like to see them play together more. If SAF doesnt think that is the way to go, fine, but it would have been helpful if he had made up his mind before we wasted £30m on a player we barely ever use.
He usually played a 4-5-1 system in the big games before he bought Berbatov anyway. We just seemed to have more options in attack with Ronaldo there also.
We don't have the midfielders at the moment to play a 442 on a very regular basis as we have in the past.
It depends what you believe - we will never probably know for sure - but I think he already knew Ronaldo was off when he bought Berbs. The Tevez thing was hardly a bolt from the blue. We are where we are because Fergie brought us here - on everything except Anderson's long term injury, and hence our midfield options. Not that I think Anderson being in the frame opens up the possibility of playing 4-4-2. So again, if we dont have enough midfielders to make 4-4-2 work, we should have either bought a midfielder to make it work or bought a striker who could play up front on his own.
It is all the more baffling because Fergie is usually so fastidious in his preparation, organisation, planning. And yet there doesnt seem to have been much of a sense of overall strategy in the way our squad has evolved in the past couple of seasons.
All this said, I am having a bit of a rant about this but at the end of the day shit happens, sometimes things dont work out as you hope they will, SAF is only human etc etc. Also, I hold on tight to the rebuilding project and the optimism deriving from that. Next season Macheda and Diouff could be revalations, who knows.
But when it comes to Berbs, as Sharky said, it is midfielders that hold the key. Where is this midfielder that allows us to revert to 4-4-2 coming from?
It is all the more baffling because Fergie is usually so fastidious in his preparation, organisation, planning. And yet there doesnt seem to have been much of a sense of overall strategy in the way our squad has evolved in the past couple of seasons.
All this said, I am having a bit of a rant about this but at the end of the day shit happens, sometimes things dont work out as you hope they will, SAF is only human etc etc. Also, I hold on tight to the rebuilding project and the optimism deriving from that. Next season Macheda and Diouff could be revalations, who knows.
But when it comes to Berbs, as Sharky said, it is midfielders that hold the key. Where is this midfielder that allows us to revert to 4-4-2 coming from?
You're living in the past. Everyone played 4-4-2 years ago. Now everyone plays 4-5-1, and it has to be matches. Our midfielders are definitely good enough.
He will never be good enough for us.
His overly expensive 30 mil price tags just makes us expect him to be good enough.
His overly expensive 30 mil price tags just makes us expect him to be good enough.
but he didn't ask to be priced at £30 million!!
He's the strikers eqivalent of Veron. Looks great when he's playing for another team and someone you'd imagine would step up and take it to next level with United and instead you realize he's just not the right fit for us.
Not crap by any means, but he'll never live up to his transfer fee or the hype.
Not crap by any means, but he'll never live up to his transfer fee or the hype.
Weren't Bayern playing 4-4-2 last night ? Our midfielders aren't good enough for us to play this formation on the big matches.
We weren't playing any system we currently play, it was a new system after a red card.
feck me, yeah Bayern were playing it but up until Rafael was sent off we were on our way to smashing them all over the place.
I seriously believe that had Ribery not been such a cnut then we would have settled after Bayern "came at us" for the first 10 mins of the second half and we'd have won easily, 4 or 5-1.
So Bayern's 4-4-2 would've been a massive failure.
Sorry I know it's tempting to say we'd have won 4 or 5-1 but you can't really say that for sure.We could have conceded other goals too. Besides why is there this huge belief that Ribery made the referee book Rafael ? I believe he'd have done it anyway and the main fault is Rafael's
He didn't score a single goal in europe this season, right? £30M for him, what a great bit of business for Spurs.
and?
It's just that we've been decent but unlucky...
So, in other words, Bayern's midfield was doing absolutely nothing until we went down to 10 men. Great example.
Next season I really want to see more energy for Berbatov, more fight, closing defenders down, tracking back, just everything, like you would get from a Rooney. I don't care if its not his 'style', any player can work their socks off and put in that sort of effort, if he starts showing some desire and determination he would win the fans over instantly. I imagine we'll get another striker so hes not going to be able to just walk into the team whenever we play 4-4-2 like this season, he'll have to work for it.
He's already been doing a lot more work/closing down/desire/determination this year. But, he'll never do enough of it for some people clearly - so it's a bit pointless to ask him to do more. If it's you that's satisfied maybe after he does even more, the next person that bitches and moans he doesn't work hard enough.
You really seem to appreciate mediocrity, well done Berbatov
- Status