Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances

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I'm one of his biggest fans, but he's not quite lived up to what I'd hoped for with us. And you lot have mentioned most of the reasons. He doesn't seem to believe he really belongs which, given his talent, is both a crying shame and entirely wrong. But I don't think he's been nearly as bad as some have made out. It was a tight game yesterday, and at 1-0 he laid one on a plate, and scored one. That's a telling contribution, to my mind, at least.

I'd liken him to Arshavin in terms of overall impact in his times with us. He can do better though, so here's hoping.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
How many people have and have had Cantona's confidence, prescence in the League let alone at Utd?

It's hardly Berbatov's fault he's been fatuously compared to and expected to be a Cantona replacement.
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Well, at Spurs I thought he had a Cantona-like confidence. But that's not the point, the fact is not all players succeed at Old Trafford, sometimes it's down to lack of talent - but that clearly can't be levelled at Berbatov. He's been okayish - whether he's simply lacked confidence or he's just a confidence player(all players, I guess), I don't know. . .but I think it's fair to say he's not fully done himself justice at OT.

So I take it you think he's been a very good signing?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You don't think he's going to succeed at United?

I think you're being hasty. There's lots of good players who've had a ropey season or two at their new club and gone on to do very well.

If Berbatov can build on the improvement he's shown this season over the next 2 or 3 years I think he'll end up being looked back upon as another good signing by Fergie.

Time will tell.
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Don't think he's had a ropey season. It comes down to how many games he's started to prove that. Last season he alternated with Tevez, and I believe SAF was trying to find the right combination. Some observers believed the manager was fielding him to justify the signing which I can't believe for a minute.

This season he has carried a knee injury which has hindered him slightly but he has whinged about it. It's been managed well up to now and we could see the benefit in the run in.
 
The only thing he is lacking is more goals. He has 6 in the last 8. Obviously if he plays regularly that will improve. The guy is pure class and has the best link up play in the league. He will come good IMO.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You don't think he's going to succeed at United?

I think you're being hasty. There's lots of good players who've had a ropey season or two at their new club and gone on to do very well.

If Berbatov can build on the improvement he's shown this season over the next 2 or 3 years I think he'll end up being looked back upon as another good signing by Fergie.

Time will tell.
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He's been here for two full seasons - I just think we'll see more of the same. Look no one wants him to succeed more than me but I just can't see it.

I'd love to be proved wrong.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
Don't think he's had a ropey season. It comes down to how many games he's started to prove that. Last season he alternated with Tevez, and I believe SAF was trying to find the right combination. Some observers believed the manager was fielding him to justify the signing which I can't believe for a minute.

This season he has carried a knee injury which has hindered him slightly but he has whinged about it. It's been managed well up to now and we could see the benefit in the run in.
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I was referring to last season really. He was ok in that season (i.e. better than Tevez) but definitely underwhelmed overall.

This season he's been better, I agree. The knee injury was unfortunately timed. If you look back at those 6 out of 8 games (I mentioned above) in which we dropped points without him, most of them were at a time when SAF was being really careful about playing him.
 
Spoony Youngblood said:
He's been here for two full seasons - I just think we'll see more of the same. Look no one wants him to succeed more than me but I just can't see it.

I'd love to be proved wrong.
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Hmmm... I would say there's been a noticeable improvement from one season to the next, which makes me hopeful there's an upward trend.
 
I reckon he just lacks that sudden turn of pace which would put him in the category of being amongst the very best around. It was the first time at United I really saw him getting away from two defenders with a turn of speed when creating the goal for Rooney yesterday.
 
Sultan said:
I reckon he just lacks that sudden turn of pace which would put him in the category of being amongst the very best around. It was the first time at United I really saw him getting away from two defenders with a turn of speed when creating the goal for Rooney yesterday.
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So by that observation he doesn't lack a sudden turn of speed.He's not a sprinter in the Giggs/Henry/Ronaldo mould but he has enough over 5/10 metres to make space for something to happen.

Just don't give him the ball on the 1/2 way line and expect him to outpace the defence over 50m:lol:
 
I don't think it was a real show of pace but intelligence, he used his skill to bamboozle the defenders then he shields himself infront of the ball meaning that the defender can only go round him to retrieve it.

The man may not have pace (we saw that in the first half with Rooney's through ball) but he's good at shielding the ball as he moves closer to goal, it reminds me of Deco before he was gash.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
So by that observation he doesn't lack a sudden turn of speed.He's not a sprinter in the Giggs/Henry/Ronaldo mould but he has enough over 5/10 metres to make space for something to happen.

Just don't give him the ball on the 1/2 way line and expect him to outpace the defence over 50m:lol:
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I think the defenders were either slower than him, or they were just too scared to get near for fear of giving away a penalty.
 
Sultan said:
I think the defenders were either slower than him, or they were just too scared to get near for fear of giving away a penalty.
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Irrelevant.

If they were too slow or too scared to tackle they have no business playing at that level.

He got away from them that's all that counts.
 
Boss said:
I don't think it was a real show of pace but intelligence, he used his skill to bamboozle the defenders then he shields himself infront of the ball meaning that the defender can only go round him to retrieve it.

The man may not have pace (we saw that in the first half with Rooney's through ball) but he's good at shielding the ball as he moves closer to goal, it reminds me of Deco before he was gash.
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It was exactly what you described.The fact that no one expected him to do it gave him a boost,defenders were surprised and he benefited from their non reactions he caused
 
I've noticed the fans chanting his name more often these last 2 games. I don't know if it's a new song that's been penned ( Dimitar Berbatov, one look at city and he said feck off) or if the increased chanting represents the masses starting to appreciate Berba a bit more. Either way it can only help his confidence.
 
It's not a new chant Number7, it'll be a direct reaction to improved performances. I've been at games live where you watch Berbatov, he's done feck all and not really looked like ever getting involved in the game, supporters have been frustrated with him, you read what folk on here say, and they have him as one of the best players of the match! Funny how different a game can look on the box. At the weekend it was just a very good performance full stop, and everyone can appreciate that
 
Yeah I know what you mean Brad...I don't think I've been to a game he's played in without masses of people getting on his back. Against West Ham a few weeks back for e.g. some kid (I'd say 4 or 5 years old) shouts 'Berbatov - you're shit!' from the stands.

I've never heard his name chanted prior to the last few games mind.
 
B Cantona said:
It's not a new chant Number7, it'll be a direct reaction to improved performances. I've been at games live where you watch Berbatov, he's done feck all and not really looked like ever getting involved in the game, supporters have been frustrated with him, you read what folk on here say, and they have him as one of the best players of the match! Funny how different a game can look on the box. At the weekend it was just a very good performance full stop, and everyone can appreciate that
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I think everyone can agree that he was disinterested in the first half of the season but since then he's really been trying. He's been tackling, at times even tracking back. He's shown his frustration when he tries something and it doesn't come off. Sure, he's still not where we would want him to be but you can't shoot him down for effort in his last 10 starts at least.
 
Boss said:
I don't think it was a real show of pace but intelligence, he used his skill to bamboozle the defenders then he shields himself infront of the ball meaning that the defender can only go round him to retrieve it.

The man may not have pace (we saw that in the first half with Rooney's through ball) but he's good at shielding the ball as he moves closer to goal, it reminds me of Deco before he was gash.
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Pinched this gif from the newbs, which confirms what you said:

Berbatov.gif


The first touch is what makes it though, incredible.
 
kouroux said:
Again not giving credits to the hardworking players (remember Fletcher ?).Rooney's pass was perfect but what if Park decided not to cross it, I mean Park's contribution to the 3rd goal is more important than Rooney's even if Wayne played a role in it.
I know that on the Caf we're trying not to overestimate assists (yeah it's been a trend these last few months) but sometimes the debate reaches ridiculous levels
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Not sure why you said not giving credit to the hard workign players, I clearly stated parks cross was fantastic. But that opportunity would not have existed had it not been for the vision and the pin point cross. If i were to rate contributions for that goal I would give rooney a 10 and park a 9, hardly not giving credit is it?

And fwiw, whats even more ridiculous is when somebody completely takes things out of perspective. Heaven forbid I should think rooney played better than berbatov.

Honestly
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I don't think anyone would ever describe Berbatov as quick.
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He actually does cover the ground sharpish when he gets going. He's deceptively quick, but by no means lightening.

I'm fully with Pogue on this one. He underwhelmed in his first season but he was by no means a flop. He's been good this season and the way his form is, you can see him ending on a real high. He's got 10 league goals which is a very tidy return so far. There's no reason why he couldn't notch a few more before the end of the season.

Some of his link up in the build up to goals goes unnoticed as well. He generally tends to be involved in all of the goals at some stage.

He's doing well and for the first time in a long while, at the weekend, he did start to strut around the pitch. Let's see if this is the start of something...
 
Ya know it would be rather interesting if Berbatov finished the season with a similar number of league goals to Torres....just been looking at the league scorers list and as it stands there’s only 3 goals in it and whilst Torres has had injury problems so has Berbatov, the difference in games started is also not to dissimilar :) Berbatovs started 19, Torres 16 I believe.

Now im not saying Berbatovs as good a striker/goalscorer as Torres before anyone jumps on that as im not but it would certainly be an interesting counter argument to all the Berba bashers on here if he ended the season with a similar goal output to a striker most recognise as world class with a similar number of league starts.
 
Allforone said:
Ya know it would be rather interesting if Berbatov finished the season with a similar number of league goals to Torres....just been looking at the league scorers list and as it stands there’s only 3 goals in it and whilst Torres has had injury problems so has Berbatov, the difference in games started is also not to dissimilar :) Berbatovs started 19, Torres 16 I believe.

Now im not saying Berbatovs as good a striker/goalscorer as Torres before anyone jumps on that as im not but it would certainly be an interesting counter argument to all the Berba bashers on here if he ended the season with a similar goal output to a striker most recognise as world class with a similar number of league starts.
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Stats are in my "support/second strikers" thread. Torres is way more prolific than Berbatov, in terms of goals/minute played (the girly-haired cnut)

Berbatov really needs a hat-trick or couple of braces to be up there with the out and out strikers in the league. He tends to only get a single goal at a time. Next Sunday would be a good time to break that particular duck.
 
Feed Me said:
I'm fully with Pogue on this one. He underwhelmed in his first season but he was by no means a flop. He's been good this season and the way his form is, you can see him ending on a real high. He's got 10 league goals which is a very tidy return so far. There's no reason why he couldn't notch a few more before the end of the season.

Some of his link up in the build up to goals goes unnoticed as well. He generally tends to be involved in all of the goals at some stage.
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I'd agree with that.

I think we can all admit that last season he was extremely underwhelming, and that even this season it took him a while to get going. It was only about December that he's really started to look the player we all knew he's capable of being. Since December, though, Berbatov's been nothing short of class. Long may it continue.
I can see him getting another 4 goals or so before the season's over. 14 goals... Not a bad return at all - especially since they'll be all Premier League/Champions League goals.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Stats are in my "support/second strikers" thread. Torres is way more prolific than Berbatov, in terms of goals/minute played (the girly-haired cnut)
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It still would sound good if one could say Berbatov scored within a handful of goals of world class Torres whilst being 'shite' though....never expect him to be anywhere near as prolific as Torres obvioulsy but would be a nice little stat to have come the end of the season anyway.

Is that thread of yours updated by the way? ill check it out im interested to see those stats.
 
I swear if the game had secondary assists Berbs might well have about 10 more. People might appreciate his link-up play a bit more then.
 
Allforone said:
It still would sound good if one could say Berbatov scored within a handful of goals of world class Torres whilst being 'shite' though....never expect him to be anywhere near as prolifc as Torres obvioulsy but would be a nice little stat to have come the end of the season anyway.

Is that thread of yours updated by the way? ill check it out im interested to see those stats.
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Yup. Updated it today.
 
johnmufc said:
I'd agree with that.

I think we can all admit that last season he was extremely underwhelming, and that even this season it took him a while to get going. It was only about December that he's really started to look the player we all knew he's capable of being. Since December, though, Berbatov's been nothing short of class. Long may it continue.
I can see him getting another 4 goals or so before the season's over. 14 goals... Not a bad return at all - especially since they'll be all Premier League/Champions League goals.
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I think he started the season very well, in fairness to him. He had about a month at the very start where he was looking sharp, but the knee injury really ruined the middle part of his season. First choice he may not be , but the form he's in means that we have a genuine plan B.

If he finishes the season with 15, you have to be happy. As you say, they will have all come in the top competitions.
 
holdsteady said:
I swear if the game had secondary assists Berbs might well have about 10 more. People might appreciate his link-up play a bit more then.
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People are never going to appreciate those sorts of continuity players though. It's exactly the same reason that Carrick doesn't get the praise he's due. The passes in the middle part of a move aren't very sexy are they...
 
He's scoring goals when he's starting, so I'd like him to force his way into the lineup for our big matches coming up. If he can get a goal or two and play well in those matches, what doubts remain? Big players do it in the big matches, he should be given the chance to do so and if he continues to score goals, and if he plays well, he has a good chance of being given a start or two in our big games coming up.
 
Ekeke said:
He's scoring goals when he's starting, so I'd like him to force his way into the lineup for our big matches coming up. If he can get a goal or two and play well in those matches, what doubts remain? Big players do it in the big matches, he should be given the chance to do so and if he continues to score goals, and if he plays well, he has a good chance of being given a start or two in our big games coming up.
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I doubt he'll start a big away game any time soon - not while Rooney is in the form of his life as a lone striker - but you'd have to think Sunday's performance puts him in the frame for Liverpool at OT.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Can't agree Rooney was the only player "with a bit of spark"

Rooney was Rooney - he's a one man wrecking machine these days - but Berbatov was the one pulling the strings in our most effective periods of play.

EDIT: Should clarify, Rooney did a lot of string pulling himself but I think Berbatov was probably slightly more penetrative overall.
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Probably should've clarified myself, by a bit of spark I meant looked like he was going to create something out of nothing.

Excellent through ball to Nani on the left wing and great assist aside, I can't think of a moment when Berbatov tried something really difficult - which is unusual for him. He orchestrated the play excellently, a lot more than Rooney, but I can think of a few more moments from Rooney.

I have to be honest, games like yesterday for Berbatov don't seem anything out of the ordinary for me, it doesn't seem that far above what we were getting from Berbatov before - which I was happy with, especially right from the start of this season - but for some reason he seems to getting his dues a lot more often.

I'm a bit puzzled as to what's changed but I'm all for people getting behind Berbatov.
 
Feed Me said:
People are never going to appreciate those sorts of continuity players though. It's exactly the same reason that Carrick doesn't get the praise he's due. The passes in the middle part of a move aren't very sexy are they...
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Its great when you're a midfielder. But when doubts remain over your abilities as an actual striker, people want to see those issues sorted out rather than doing 'extra' things you dont really need your striker doing.

It'd be like a right back who is great at playing through balls but has issues with defending. If he could sort those defensive issues out, everyone would appreciate the rest of his play more because they wouldnt have concerns about the player. But while he has issues with actual defending, people would prefer another player who does the job defensively and doesnt leave the team exposed because we have to trust that our midfielders, wingers and strikers can play those throughballs instead.

As you say, Berbatov does play good balls in behind for the wingers. So can Carrick, Scholes, Fletcher and Giggs when he plays in the middle. Now and again Anderson got one right too. We have that whether he plays or not. What we dont have whether he plays or not is a 2nd striker we can rely on to play well and get his name on the scoresheet in big games.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I doubt he'll start a big away game any time soon - not while Rooney is in the form of his life as a lone striker - but you'd have to think Sunday's performance puts him in the frame for Liverpool at OT.
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You'd think Liverpool would be one of the most likely big games we'll play him in this season, but I'm not sure I want us to play him. 4-3-3's still our best bet.
 
Ekeke said:
Its great when you're a midfielder. But when doubts remain over your abilities as an actual striker, people want to see those issues sorted out rather than doing 'extra' things you dont really need your striker doing.
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We kind of do need our striker doing those things when Scholes isn't playing, though.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I doubt he'll start a big away game any time soon - not while Rooney is in the form of his life as a lone striker - but you'd have to think Sunday's performance puts him in the frame for Liverpool at OT.
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I dont go along with that theory I'm afraid. There's a reason Sir Alex chose to break our record to sign him and put him straight in the team for all our big away games last season.

If he's doing the business I think Sir Alex will change the team to accomodate him. I mean, which great player playing very well hasnt Sir Alex made sure is in his starting 11 in the past?
 
Brwned said:
Probably should've clarified myself, by a bit of spark I meant looked like he was going to create something out of nothing.

Excellent through ball to Nani on the left wing and great assist aside, I can't think of a moment when Berbatov tried something really difficult - which is unusual for him. He orchestrated the play excellently, a lot more than Rooney, but I can think of a few more moments from Rooney.

I have to be honest, games like yesterday for Berbatov don't seem anything out of the ordinary for me, it doesn't seem that far above what we were getting from Berbatov before - which I was happy with, especially right from the start of this season - but for some reason he seems to getting his dues a lot more often.

I'm a bit puzzled as to what's changed but I'm all for people getting behind Berbatov.
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better late then never, i say :)
 
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