Well said.
Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances
- Thread starter Rood
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Didn't he essentially play in the middle of a 451 for the majority of last season? And wasn't it yourself that posted all the stats about how his interceptions and tackles were comparable to the rest of our CM's?
Agreed.
The way Sir Alex tried to do it last season in all our big away matches in the league. He said he made a mistake with it last season, but Berbatov wasn't playing his absolute best football last season was he? He wasn't in confident goalscoring form like he has been in recent times either.
So. Lets remember that the idea is that if he's playing his absolute best football, in absolutely brilliant form, the kind of form that saw us pay so much for him - Its going to work better playing in the hole behind Rooney than it did last season. A) Because Berbatov is now working harder than ever and making sure to get his goals B) Because Rooney is a better number 9.
I ask again, which other player has Sir Alex left out of big game after big game despite being in "world class" form? It doesnt happen. If he's playing that brilliantly he'll be accomodated. And if he's playing that brilliantly, other tactics can work better than they have previously.
Its because he's not done that yet that Sir Alex hasn't been challenged on team selection day for the big matches. It was only after Berbatov failed to have the desired effect in these matches last season that we went with the trio of Carrick, Fletcher and Scholes. So if Berbatov manages to start doing what the manager wanted from him in the first place, he'll be back in for the big ones. Which you cannot believe wasnt the plan in the first place when we broke the record to sign him.
He's not a midfielder. He played as a striker last season.
His interceptions/tackles were better than the other strikers, I never compared them with midfielders.
What big games did Berbatov fail in last year?
He played against Liverpool at Anfield and set up a goal.
He played against Chelsea at OT, scored and played well.
Didn't his shot set up Park for our goal at Stamford Bridge last season too?
Can't remember his role at the Emirates league game (I just remember we played really well), and the OT game was a dead rubber.
Berbatov also played excellently against Inter Milan last year.
So what games did he fail in again?
He played against Liverpool at Anfield and set up a goal.
He played against Chelsea at OT, scored and played well.
Didn't his shot set up Park for our goal at Stamford Bridge last season too?
Can't remember his role at the Emirates league game (I just remember we played really well), and the OT game was a dead rubber.
Berbatov also played excellently against Inter Milan last year.
So what games did he fail in again?
Lampard played further forward than Berbatov did.
This is nonsense, obviously.
I think we all know- based on the discussion following the Wolves game - that you haven't got much of clue about the positions our strikers take up during a game.
All of them. He got 1 goal in 9 big matches and that was against a fragile Chelsea with management troubles when we were 2 nil up. A goal is a goal though. But 1 in 9 bigger matches was a lack of goalscoring threat. Then there was Liverpool this season where he again failed to find the back of the net.
Away against Inter he did a job and didnt get in the way of the others. Home he did nothing. Wasnt selected against Pool in the next match, back in against Porto. And then out of the side for a lot of the run in, in favour of other players.
If he didnt fail in these matches, you'll have to ask Sir Alex why he was dropped from the big matches at the end of last season. And why Sir Alex said he made a mistake playing him in the role he played him.
Maybe he played brilliantly and Fergie dropped him for the sake of it and apologised for a laugh. Or maybe you're just wrong.
Just leave it out, he played well against Fulham and I hope he can continue it from there.
Nonsense, non-stop. You never disappoint, unlike Berbatov in the big matches.
Wonder if he reads these forums.
"Oh, the fans don't like me very much do they"
"Ooh.. but there are a couple who do"
"Hang on, they're all a bunch of lunatics.. I'll have a smoke instead"
"Oh, the fans don't like me very much do they"
"Ooh.. but there are a couple who do"
"Hang on, they're all a bunch of lunatics.. I'll have a smoke instead"
It's hard to value your assessments on Berbatov when you don't think his contribution and effect for the Wolves game wasn't all that. There is yet another piece today, this time by Carrick mentioning the performance Berbatov put in as a very good performance in that game as the lone striker.
He wasn't dropped in the big matches because he was wank, it was because of wanting to play with more central midfielders, even Rooney got relegated to the wing for it in some cases so Ronaldo was the front player. Can keep using SAF not using him for the big games as a stick to beat him by but, any some what objective person on the matter is it's not a knock on Berbatov - Rooney is better and SAF wants 3 midfielders.
You just aren't going to see past the biases you've built up unless he starts putting up Rooney like numbers on the scoring charts. Oh well.
Eh.
Go back a few posts will you?
I want to see him playing in our big matches. I want him to have the chances to do that. Why would I want him to have a starting role to play in our make or break matches this season if I have a bias against him whereby I'm not going to appreciate the things he does or dont think he's any good? Can you explain that please?
Am I wanting us to lose or something? Or is it a bit more likely I want to see him turn it on like he did for 20 minutes against Wolves in a big match this season, score a goal or two in the big matches we have this season and remove any doubts I have about him?
I want to see him come good on the whole, but I'm not going to lower my expectations every week to make it happen. He is the one who has to perform. And he should be given the chances to do that. Playing his absolute best football and I believe he will be given a chance or two in the big games.
Fergie has never frozen out a world class player in world class form before. I dont think he's started to now, just because Berbatov hasnt been in the team.
Which way is that then?
As far as I remember Berba kept having to drop deep because he wasn't getting much of a supply. That left us with a single striker. Similar to how we are playing now.....with 1 striker, except that we now have a midfielder playing a midfield role instead of a striker playing a midfield role.
So who's going to get the ball to Berb when he's in the hole then? The two central midfielders who can't get the ball off the three oppostion midfielders are going to find it difficult aren't they. Or are we just going to rely on the defenders to fire a long ball to the wingers in the hope that they can get a good enough cross or two into the box?
I see....a bit like if we have 4 central defenders playing brilliantly then Fergie will find a way to accomodate them all somewhere. Perhaps shove one into goal and play another as a striker. Yep, spot on Fergie tactics those.
Joking aside, if you have two players playing brilliantly and only one position open then you can only play one of these two players. Unless of course you want a striker to play a central midfield role, which I'm sure Berba could do, but certainly not as effectively as someone who is a midfielder.
Again I'll stress that if we do not have control of the midfield then it really doesn't matter how many brillant strikers we have up front. Strikers need to have the ball to be able to score a goal and the opposition players are certainly not going to gift our strikers with the ball when they are well positioned to score. It just doesn't work like that. Our midfield players have to provide that service.
So for example...imagine...the opposition are playing with three good midfield players and we are playing with two good midfield players. They have one man extra in midfield and therefore most likely will win control of the midfield. Do you want that to happen in games? Do you think we should allow that to happen just so that we can play two strikers? Do you really think a brilliant striker can produce a goal without a ball?
Matches are won and lost in midfield and there are times when we need to play a more solid formation, which just does not allow us the luxury of two strikers, no matter how brilliantly they may be playing. We have to look at the strength of the players in the opposition team and the formation that they will use against us. We have to better that to win the match. That is why we sometimes use a 4-5-1 formation. This formation comes with one striker.
On a final serious note, I have absolutely no intention of responding to the comments that repeatedly refer to Berba's price. To my mind those comments are criticisms of a type that I have no time for at all. I judge a player on his ability only.
In the 2008 UEFA Champions League Final we lined up with Carrick and Scholes in central midfield up against Makelele, Ballack and Lampard, because Tevez had played well enough over the season to ensure he started.
He was playing behind Rooney and linking midfield and attack. When we didnt have the ball he made up the 5 in midfield. He wasn't having to do anything that he wasnt expected to do. Thats just the role you play when you are linking behind a striker. You pick the ball up off the midfielders, turn and play the ball about. Then its best to get in the box... Which was the main problem we had with Berbatov in the hole last season. That didnt happen enough and so Rooney lacked support and Berbatov didnt get the goals he has got this season. Thats the one area that needed rebalancing. With Rooney playing better as a number 9 and Berbatov working harder than ever when he doesnt have the ball, and making sure he gets his name on the scoresheet enough, its likely to work better now.
However, If you dont remember how we played last season I'd suggest you go and buy the season review.
Was it a wise move though? That's the match where we failed to outplay Chelsea and only won on penalties.
We could have easily been up 3-0 at the half. Second half Chelsea played better, but first half was United.
Except you phrased it as him needing to do something, like it wasn't his role in the team but he felt the need to do it because otherwise we'd be punished.
Any player who plays behind a striker or behind 2 strikers picks the ball up off his central midfielders, turns and plays the ball around. It's not something they have taken to doing in the middle of the match because they are frustrated that the midfielders arent playing the ball around like Zidane. Thats just the position being played. Watch any side with an attacking midfielder in behind 2 strikers, or a player in the hole behind 1 striker. Because these players need to get high up the pitch to support the strikers, they find themselves in front of the ball and need to receive it from the deeper players in this case the midfielders. Thats not an issue. That was the point of playing him, or anyone there.
First time in a while but I'm actually excited about watching Berbatov play on Sunday, the languid genius is reminding me why I believed in him at the start of the season.
I hope he plays like he did in he last quarter of the fulham game against Liverpool.
I hope he plays like he did in he last quarter of the fulham game against Liverpool.
He won't start on Sunday you'll play 433
It will be a bit upsetting, it's a team that can't beat Wigan...and we are at home..but I stand by the gaffer no matter what formation he applies. We play brilliantly with 4-3-3 but Berba deserves another shot at a big game, Ferguson said he would probably start against Milan after his Wolves performance.
I hope he gets a chance.
Give him his shot - play 4411 (and lose).
He will play, score, and become an instant idol.
Who Gerrard? He shudda bin banned.
Pete's right about this one.
It's fecking karma boys, bend over and accept Stevie's punishment.
I forgot you arsenal fans have this kind of "friendship" or "bro-love" relationship with liverpool fans, at least according to RAWK.
Nice to see you are following the trend.
I Hate Liverpool (except when they take 3 pts off you).
he wont start. Park and Valencia with Rooney.
I'll be smiling when Chelsea beat them.
Why would you care? Don't tell me you still believe Arsenal have a chance to win the title, do you?
He may start. We usually play 2 strikers against Liverpool. Maybe Sir Alex will change it up because he thinks thats a reason why we havent done too well against them. But if he doesnt and goes with 2 up front again, that will also say a lot.
He probably won't play.
He'll get 10 minutes, as a sub, after Rooney nets 2
Like someone mentioned already, we play them with two upfront lately, but I really don't know what to expect for this one.
Either way, it is time for revenge. Berba, Scholes and Park are in form, so I'll be fine with whatever SAF puts out there. Can't wait for the fecking game
Either way, it is time for revenge. Berba, Scholes and Park are in form, so I'll be fine with whatever SAF puts out there. Can't wait for the fecking game
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