It's just one of those things. It's not a slight on Berbatov. Fergie likes 5 in midfield against the big sides. Besides, the midfielders are in top form at the moment.
Dimitar Berbatov | 2009/10 Performances
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It's just one of those things. It's not a slight on Berbatov. Fergie likes 5 in midfield against the big sides. Besides, the midfielders are in top form at the moment.
I reckon we will go 4-3-3. They'll be playing 5 in the middle against us. I don't think the new Fletcher has played against their midfield yet.
The ball to Fletcher was Berbatov (and Fletch should have taken the shot)
Also, I think he did a lot in terms of just getting the ball and keeping it in tight areas when being harassed by a couple of Fulham players, he makes it look easy but, it's not easy task.
Seemed to fight for a lot of high balls and won quite a few (plus got called on a couple but, the effort was there).
I think he is getting more praise because he has put in that extra effort these days and so is "visible" more to others. Maybe his knee is feeling a lot better, perhaps the warmer days are helping, who knows.
Either way, am glad more people seem to at least cheering him - that can only help.
Good call on Fletcher. We always seem to go with a spastic combo against Liverpool.
Carrick-Fletcher-Scholes will be to much for that shower of shit.
Re Berbatov and the big game goal record. In fairness, when was the last time he featured in a big game?
Aye, that's true, but the people who matter do... The managers.
Martin Jol has this to say about Carrick:
Martin Jol said:
I'm sure he feels exactly the same way about Berbatov; after all, it was he who brought the Bulgarian to England.
Berbatov's importance to the team is not about his silky skills, but his interplay and link-up-play with his team-mates. Of course he is also expected to chip in with a fair few goals (just as Carrick is expected to do a job defensively), and his technical skill is a more than welcome added bonus to his game.
The reality is that these sorts of players will never be fully appreciated by the fans, but their importance to the side is unquestionable. Carrick's already proven his worth, and Berbatov is fast becoming a crucial player to our attacking game.
And yet we played 4 in midfield with 2 up front in all our away matches against the big sides last season when Berbatov was the new toy to play with.
If he's in big time favour with the boss again, through very good form, he'll get his games.
Liverpool earlier in the season?
That's a lovely quote about Carrick. It sums up my feelings on the lad completely. He's a smashing player. I don't hear too many people talking about his transfer fee anymore either.
Re Berbatov: I agree, his link up play is a great option to have. He will never get the plaudits unless the ball hits the net a bit more though. Even my mother commented on his profligacy against Fulham and she knows nothing about football - "He should have hit that one into the net." It's a cliche, but I see it as a positive that he's getting chances. The goals will flow if he keeps getting on the end of things.
And didnt win any of them......get the clue....a midfield 4 in these games is a thing of the past, it dosnt work, we get overrun, we dont win etc etc....5 in midfield has been a proven winning formula for us in these games, why thats so hard for you to grasp i really dont know....Fergie has said this himself countless times now, when Owen recently got injured he said it wasnt a slight on him that he hadnt played as much as hed of liked it was down to us wanting to play with a 5 man midfield and Rooney as a lone striker.
Its nothing to do with Berbatov.
Okay. But you're not really disproving my theory. I never said he doesn't feature, I was implying that he doesn't feature regularly. We've had a fair few big games this season in fairness. Two games against Milan, a game against Chelsea, two games against Arsenal. I think he's started one of the three against City.
So it's probably a bit harsh to judge him on big games.
Spot on.
If Rooney hadn't hit the goal trail this season, it's conceivable that he would have been back out on the left with Berbatov up front.
I'm not sure that's it, he was getting praise without scoring against West Ham and Villa wasn't he?
There's definitely something I'm missing.
I personally think that him working harder is simply a response to his critics so they get off his back a bit.
If I was him, I'd alter my running style to make my arms move really quickly and look a bit spastic/Tevez, giving the illusion I'm working hard but instead keeping my normal game.
I always thought the laziness argument was a bit overdone. But he has upped it in that department.
He played in plenty of them last season. He played the first one this season.
Its fair to say if he had played brilliantly in those matches, he'd be a regular starter in big matches like other players who play brilliantly in those matches.
The clue is that he played in them and wasnt very good.
And using Fergie's comments on Owen? Sure, put aside the comments that Sir Alex said he doesnt like Owen and Rooney together as he sees them as the same type of player. Leaving the door wide open for Berbatov.
Sir Alex has also said this season that central midfield is our strength.
I've noticed an improvement in his general demeanour in the last few games. I can't fully explain it, but its only lately I've started seeing him as a human being.
For a season and a half its been 'this is who I am, and this is what I do'. Lately I've seen a different side. Enough to make me say I've been impressed with him recently, and I've never said that before.
No, the clue is everytime we play 4-4-2 in a big game we more often than not lose, maybe sneak a fortunate draw and certainly dont win, the clue is in the results, we are in the results business incase that penny hasnt yet dropped.
Big game results in a 4-4-2 = poor
Big game results in a 4-5-1 = very good
Yes, because incase you hadnt noticed we play 3 in there and dominate most of our matches as a result.
You simply try and use a succesfull system by way of another stick to beat Berbatov with, a player youve displayed a clear agenda torwards all season.
Incorrect, he was gushing about midfield pairs. Thats 2 people.
Just because you dont rate our midfielders doesnt mean the manager doesnt rate our midfielders.
am i in the minority then? as i've not been disappointed in berbatov from the start
Just for you Ekeke, Sir Alex on our midfield selection and the non selection of Berbatov in such games:
I wonder if this will register....i somehow doubt it.
I wonder if this will register....i somehow doubt it.
He says it would be difficult for Berbatov to make him change that. He doesnt say its impossible.
He says he could even have played him away to Milan, which shows he's open to the idea even though he's not actually at his very best.
Berbatov playing brilliant football in his best form and he will get games in big matches.
Agreed.
If we decide to go 4-4-2 yeah just like Sir Alex said in the above interview, hes shown countless times this season alongside Rooney how good they can be together and Berbatovs been in excellent form since the turn of the year, however if we go 4-5-1 like we have in 99% of the big games this season then he wont, as Fergie has said for a long time and in the above interview, he likes 3 central midfielders in these particular games and the results bare the fruit of that selection.
Its really not hard to grasp.
SAF has surprised many before with team selections. It will depend on form and the oposition.As one poster quite rightly put it, if Berbatov makes it near impossible for the manager to leave him out then he'll go with a 4-4-2. At home certainly I don't think it's a risk but if we were away against teams with strong midfields then 4-5-1 is better
4-4-2 against strong sides is always a risk. Even at home. We simply lack the midfield to get a way with such a system.
There's not really a team at the top level of European football that gets away with a two man midfield.
The Makelele effect means that three man midfields are in vogue.
For many on here it is.
feck off with your Spoonery.
I don't think he's that slow. He's kind of like Ruud in his first few years for us, not particularly fast but with a burst of acceleration that means he's well capable of getting ahead of his man if he wants it.
At the moment he's low on confidence which means he tends to turn back and pass when he could have a go if he opened up.
At the moment he's low on confidence which means he tends to turn back and pass when he could have a go if he opened up.
It's not really to do with Makelele or Chelsea and the 4141 - more to do with 4231s in Europe. Both Arsenal and Man Utd persisted with 4411 in the early years of the decade regularly getting turned over in Europe - about 2006 they changed it.
We were playing 4-5-1 during the period we were getting turned over. It does help if the 5 doesn't include Quinton Fortune or Alan Smith.
Don't really see how Berb can play regularly in big matches, no matter how brilliantly he might play.
Both you and I (and everyone else) know that SAF prefers to use a 4-5-1 formation for big/difficult matches. That means 1 striker doesn't it. He doesn't play 4-5-1 because we have only 1 good striker, he plays 4-5-1 so that we have more midfielders on the pitch.
He finds it necessary to use more midfielders so that we don't lose control of the midfield area. If we lose control of the midfield area, which has happened in the past, then we lose the ball and haven't got any way of getting the ball up to the strikers. Consequently we risk losing the match.
Please explain how we can play 4 defenders, 5 midfielders and 2 strikers in a match, thus allowing us to start both Rooney and Berb. (Or any other striker for that matter).
The standard response to that question is "if Berbatov was playing well enough SAF would find a way"
This response is never followed up with an actual team or formation of course.
I think you could accomodate him fairly easily in a 4-2-3-1 kind of thing like pete's saying, either as the middle of the 3 or up top.
Thing is though we don't play 4-2-3-1 in those games, we play three centre mids, and that's the problem, it would mean shifting him wide, because there's no way Rooney's going wide these days.
Berbatov in a 4-5-1 formation is basically playing with a slightly different version of the 4-4-2
That's the way the suggestions usually tail away, with mutterings about maybe playing him or Rooney wide.
Which will never happen because Rooneys been so brilliant through the middle and Berbatov is the last player on earth you'd pick as a winger.
I've realised that.....I'm trying to get him to explain to me how he thinks it can be done.
SAF and I await his detailed explanation with interest. (C'mon Ekeke)
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