Dele Alli is England's best young midfielder playing in Turkey

NinjaFletch said:
Just like every post you've ever made on here?

I really don't get what you're trying to prove. You're not going to convince anyone that Dembele would keep Pogba out of the Spurs team. You're not going to convince anyone of that on a Manchester United forum, a Chelsea forum, a Dagenham and Redbridge forum or a Blyth Spartan's one either. I'm not even at all convinced you'd even convince many Spurs fans of the fact. But, god knows what the delusional echo chambers of fan forums (yes, including this one, before you start) can convince themselves off.
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Again, that's not what I've said. I've said that Pogba would have to compete against Dembele for his spot - and whether he'd succeed in displacing him is an open question. And again let me ask, how many times did you see Dembele play last season? If Pogba manages to be even 80% as good this season as Dembele was last season then he'll be doing well.

I've seen all this big money snobbery before. But I'm not influenced in the slightest by the fact that Pogba cost a world record fee or that he's played in a CL final for Juve. Let's see him play more than twice in the Prem before proclaiming him to be a box-to-box CM who is vastly better than Dembele.
 
Cantona'sCollar said:
This.



Exactly - after Gerrard, Lampard, Carrick and Scholes, England haven't produced a single midfielder of international standard. It's all hype, look at Jack Wilshere.
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yep, pretty much this.

Since Lampard, Scholes, Gerrard etc, England have failed to produce a MF of their caliber which is why they're overrating the current crop due to desperation. All it takes is one of these kids to score one screamer and the British media is all up in arm about how x or y is the next big things then predictably it turns out into mere hypes with no substances.

Your Wilshere, Barkley, Alli(my bad it's only Dele now) are ridiculously overhyped and haven't shown anywhere near the talent and potential the likes of Scholes, Gerrard, Lampard showed in their youth.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Juventus does equal Pogba. It doesn't prove that Pogba is going to be fantastic in the Prem or better than Dembele was last season. You might want to wait before he's played in 2 games in the Prem this season before crowning Pogba as the king of CM .... but then I guess not, seeing your user name.
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Pogba is one of the top 5 midfielders in the world. That was before he came to United, you csnt judge Pogba on 2 Premier League games. Thats like saying there was no basis for Madrid or ourselves (the only clubs able to afford him) being in a 2 horse race to sign him.

He is also yet to peak.

Dembele isnt even ahead of Fellaini
 
GlastonSpur said:
What I actually said is that Pogba would have to compete for a starting spot against Dembele, who is our box-to-box CM and was fantastic last season.

He wouldn't just walk in and automatically replace Dembele.
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I've defended a lot of your posts previously but this is just patently absurd. Pogba would obviously automatically replace Dembele, if they couldn't play together. Pogba is clearly and obviously better, and that's not just because I'm a United fan.

That isn't to say Dembele isn't good, he is, and Spurs have missed him thus far. But come on. Be reasonable.
 
Ban said:
:lol:

Tell me, man for man, would you say that Spurs team is better than United?
Is at least DDG better than Lloris? Come one, give us at least that. :(
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Oh I see. I'm not allowed to say that even some Spurs players are just as good or better than any given United equivalent, without it being implied that I think all Spurs players are better? But if it salves your United ego, then yes, DDG is better than Lloris.

From your comments it would seem that Spurs haven't actually finished above United twice in the last 3 years.
 
BigTimeCharlie said:
Pogba is one of the top 5 midfielders in the world. That was before he came to United, you csnt judge Pogba on 2 Premier League games. Thats like saying there was no basis for Madrid or ourselves (the only clubs able to afford him) being in a 2 horse race to sign him.

He is also yet to peak.

Dembele isnt even ahead of Fellaini
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That tells me all I need to know about your either your honesty or your footballing judgement.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Oh I see. I'm not allowed to say that even some Spurs players are just as good or better than any given United equivalent, without it being implied that I think all Spurs players are better? But if it salves your United ego, then yes, DDG is better than Lloris.

From your comments it would seem that Spurs haven't actually finished above United twice in the last 3 years.
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But United still ended up with silverware despite those horrid years.

Truly smalltime attitude Glaston, 3rd OR 5th is still garbage.
 
GlastonSpur said:
That tells me all I need to know about your either your honesty or your footballing judgement.
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Pretty sure that he's talking about their status in the national team. I personally think that it was an error in judgement by Wilmots and Dembele should've started ahead of Fellaini, but those are the facts, like you yourself like to point out.
 
GlastonSpur said:
This is NOT what I said. So this is you spreading deliberate misinformation - if you do it again I'll report you.

Your misinformation should be obvious, since Wanyama is not even in our first XI and Alli has the AM role as distinct from Pogba's CM role.

What I actually said is that Pogba would have to compete for a starting spot against Dembele, who is our box-to-box CM and was fantastic last season.

He wouldn't just walk in and automatically replace Dembele.
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Dembele is a good player but he wouldn't keep Pogba out of the side. Right now your team looks garbage to be honest and needs all the help it can get, yet you have the audacity to claim Pogba wouldn't get in to the side ahead of that bunch of bottlers from last season? The same ill disciplined lot that caved in at the death and then went to the Euros and performed pathetically? England relied heavily on these so called Tottenham gems yet ended up with their most pathetic campaign in history.

Give it a rest and feel free to report me to the FA. You're like Rafa Benitez circa 2009.
 
septic said:
I've defended a lot of your posts previously but this is just patently absurd. Pogba would obviously automatically replace Dembele, if they couldn't play together. Pogba is clearly and obviously better, and that's not just because I'm a United fan.

That isn't to say Dembele isn't good, he is, and Spurs have missed him thus far. But come on. Be reasonable.
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As of May this year: "Tottenham Hotspur's Mousa Dembele is the best box-to-box midfielder in Europe, according to a new study by CIES Football Observatory.

Dembele ranked above Paris Saint-Germain's Blaise Matuidi and Borussia Dortmund's Ilkay Gundogan, while his Spurs teammate Dele Alli finished fourth.

Juventus star Paul Pogba finished a distant sixth, behind the Premier League's only other representative in the top 10, Yaya Toure of Manchester City.

The study assessed midfielders based on rigour, recovery, distribution, take-ons, chances created and shooting, and also ranked Europe's defensive midfielders -- with Bayern Munich's Arturo Vidal the best and N'Golo Kante of Leicester the highest Premier League representative in eighth place."

http://www.espnfc.co.uk/tottenham-h...le-is-europes-best-box-to-box-midfielder-cies

Now, it's just one study and I'm not saying it's definitive. But it does suggest that my view of Dembele is not so out-of-whack in relation to Pogba. And I did see Dembele every time he played for Spurs last season, unlike most on here I suspect. And I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that people hold their horses on Pogba a little bit until the Prem season has unfolded a lot more than it has so far, before they jump in and claim he'd "stroll in" ahead of Dembele.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Again, that's not what I've said. I've said that Pogba would have to compete against Dembele for his spot - and whether he'd succeed in displacing him is an open question. And again let me ask, how many times did you see Dembele play last season? If Pogba manages to be even 80% as good this season as Dembele was last season then he'll be doing well.

I've seen all this big money snobbery before. But I'm not influenced in the slightest by the fact that Pogba cost a world record fee or that he's played in a CL final for Juve. Let's see him play more than twice in the Prem before proclaiming him to be a box-to-box CM who is vastly better than Dembele.
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Its just such a staggeringly half witted way of looking at things that I'm convinced you actually know that and are being obtuse for the sake of it. In your world then, presumably, Kane is a better player than, say, Higuain, Lewandowski, and Neymar?

I don't think most are trying to tell you that Dembele is a bad player, and heck, if you even want to go as far as to say as it means that central midfield wasn't a priority area for you in the summer and that you're not sure you'd have gone after Pogba in a world where you could: A) afford him and B) he'd play for you, then fine thats your prerogative.

But theres a huge amount of distance between that position and this bizzaro world in which Pogba not only would not be your best player but somehow wouldn't be guaranteed a starting spot.

That's not 'big money snobbery' or being 'influenced by the fact Pogba cost a world record fee' because you'd have got universal agreement on this issue before Pogba moved too.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Oh I see. I'm not allowed to say that even some Spurs players are just as good or better than any given United equivalent, without it being implied that I think all Spurs players are better? But if it salves your United ego, then yes, DDG is better than Lloris.

From your comments it would seem that Spurs haven't actually finished above United twice in the last 3 years.
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Glaston writing about Spurs finishing above United twice in last 3 years alert people!

I mean, does that fact turns you on or something?
 
GlastonSpur said:
Yes, that's fair enough ... but with the caveat that so far Rashford has not played that many minutes for United so needs to sustain his showing over a much longer period.
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How many minutes exactly does he have to play in order for you to agree that he has sustained it? I mean Alli has had 1 good season for Spurs.

One thing about "potential" is that it may give fans some bragging rights but it won't win you any trophies this season.

Man Utd's ambition this season is to win trophies and that's why with all his potential Rashford won't start games for us. Alli would not start games for us either. But by just looking at what Rashford can do at 18 years of age and comparing to to Kane at that age, I could easily say that Harry Kane will be a backup for Rashford in the England setup. But I know better and won't make hypothetical statements like that.

Will Alli ever get to Pogba's level? Will he want to stay at Spurs if he eventually gets there? We can only speculate.

Besides why are we even comparing Alli who plays just behind the striker to Pogba who is a central midfielder? Griezmann would be a better player to compare him with surely.
 
GlastonSpur said:
See post #541.

Pogba has yet to show in the Prem that he will be significantly better than Dembele was last season. That's not absurd - it's fact. Playing well in an inferior league and in cup competitions is a different kettle of fish. Just because United paid a vast sum for him doesn't change this.

It's always the same old story from some United fans: Rafael was apparently far better than Walker. Shaw is apparently far better than Rose. Kane was a one-season wonder. Dier was apparently just a poor man's Schneiderlinn. Schweinsteigger was apparently a world class signing. di Maria was going to blow away the Prem etc etc etc.
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This is why I mentioned Verratti before. He's played in a shiter league (like you claim with Pogba) and hasn't played in the PL (like Pogba) but most normal people would say he would walk into any team in the PL (like Pogba).

The fact you have United, Liverpool and Chelsea fans laughing over your Pogba needs to compete with Dembele shite says it all
 
Ban said:
Glaston writing about Spurs finishing above United twice in last 3 years alert people!

I mean, does that fact turns you on or something?
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It's a reasonable response to poster who said: "Tell me, man for man, would you say that Spurs team is better than United?" ... and who also implied that it's silly of me to claim that any Spurs player is just as good or better than their United equivalent.
 
Attila said:
Well said mate. Nice to see some normal Spurs fan on the site
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He was commenting on something he'd been told I'd said, but actually hadn't ... the usual strawman stuff.
 
GlastonSpur said:
It's a reasonable response to poster who said: "Tell me, man for man, would you say that Spurs team is better than United?" ... and who also implied that it's silly of me to claim that any Spurs player is just as good or better than their United equivalent.
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Find a post where I wrote that please?

And asking if man for man Spurs have a better team is a perfectly normal question.

At least DDG is better than Lloris than. Phew. Thank you for that.

Also football was played before last year and there were times when Spurs weren't this fabulous and the creme of football world they are now.
 
TheReligion said:
Dembele is a good player but he wouldn't keep Pogba out of the side. Right now your team looks garbage to be honest and needs all the help it can get, yet you have the audacity to claim Pogba wouldn't get in to the side ahead of that bunch of bottlers from last season? The same ill disciplined lot that caved in at the death and then went to the Euros and performed pathetically? England relied heavily on these so called Tottenham gems yet ended up with their most pathetic campaign in history.

Give it a rest and feel free to report me to the FA. You're like Rafa Benitez circa 2009.
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Golly, such bile. Is your ranting over yet?
 
Ban said:
Find a post where I wrote that please?

And asking if man for man Spurs have a better team is a perfectly normal question.
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I said you implied it: "Is at least DDG better than Lloris? Come one, give us at least that."
 
GlastonSpur said:
He was commenting on something he'd been told I'd said, but actually hadn't ... the usual strawman stuff.
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I remember you saying Pogba would need to compete/prove to get himself into a midfield of Dembele/Alli/Dier. United, Chelsea, Liverpool and Bayern fans have laughed at it and I'm glad there are some normal Spurs fans on this site now.
 
Are we forgetting Poch actually saying he hopes Dele becomes as good as Pogba for his Spurs side?
Yes?
 
Problem is Spurs have finished ahead of the worst United league campaigns in years yet have absolutely nothing to show for it. United still won an FA Cup.

History will still show United as more successful in the period Glaston is ranting about.

End of debate.
 
Ban said:
Yeah. No.
I implied it in your head.

But I bet you'd claim all other 10 Spurs players are better than United ones.
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Why argue with a man who came out with this crap?

GlastonSpur said:
Get with the programme baby: Sandro and Paulinho will arguably be Brazil's first choice CM pairing during the World Cup and Dembele is excellent.

I reserve judgement on Capoue because I've not really seen him play, although he comes with a good reputation.
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What tosh.

There are many posts on this forum currently discussing whether or not United will now be overtaken by Chelsea and/or Man. City. Spurs finished just 3 points behind Chelsea last season and just 6 points behind Man. City. Yet according to you, Spurs "might as well be playing in different leagues". :wenger:

Our squad is now stronger than last season, not least with the addition of Paulinho and Soldado. So I'll tell you what is actually laughable: your blinkered complacency.
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You exaggerate.

We finished just 3 points behind Chelsea last season (and ahead of them the season before) and have now added Paulinho and Soldado (and more) since then. Yet supposedly Mourinho is such a great manager that his arrival makes them favourites for the title according to many caftards, whilst Spurs in contrast are "a million miles away" from your standard.

Sorry, I don't buy it. Spurs might well not finish in the top 4. But we've been there or thereabouts for several seasons now and - especially with all the managerial changes - I see this coming season as potentially being one of the most open in recent times. So it's far from impossible that any of last season's top 4 might not finish in the top 4 again this time around.
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Paulinho and Soldado :lol:
 
Attila said:
Why argue with a man who came out with this crap?





Paulinho and Soldado :lol:
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Reading some of his posts someone who just started following football would think Spurs are on level with Barcelona or Madrid right now. :lol:
 
GlastonSpur said:
Juventus does equal Pogba. It doesn't prove that Pogba is going to be fantastic in the Prem or better than Dembele was last season. You might want to wait before he's played in 2 games in the Prem this season before crowning Pogba as the king of CM .... but then I guess not, seeing your user name.
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If Dembele is so good and the best box to box midfielder in Europe then why can he not even get into the Belgium team? Why are Witsel and Nainggolan (allegedly of inferior leagues :rolleyes:) picked ahead of him?
 
Funny thing, according to him, whatever you do in Serie A it throws you out of the competition with mighty Alli cause it's an inferior league.
 
GlastonSpur said:
That tells me all I need to know about your either your honesty or your footballing judgement.
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You musn't watch much football then, I can understand if you were still upset after the way the season finished and you ran to Amsterdam to find the nearest prostitute that combined dembele's legs with pochettinos eyebrows and ragged it for the entire time the Euros were on.
 
Alli looks to be suffering from the sane 2nd season problem Barkley and Sterling faced and probably many of others. He will eventually recover as the talented ones do. I do think he lacks that something special, but then you could of said the same just looking afar at Lampard and he was one of the Prems best ever players and they remind me of each other.
 
Attila said:
Why argue with a man who came out with this crap?





Paulinho and Soldado :lol:
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:lol:
And I thought proclaiming Pogba wouldn't displace Ali or Dembele was nuts. I've said it before but there's no way he's real(Glaston), he can't be, can he?
How can someone be so dedicated to wumming though? Over the course of so many years.
 
TheGame said:
If Dembele is so good and the best box to box midfielder in Europe then why can he not even get into the Belgium team? Why are Witsel and Nainggolan (allegedly of inferior leagues :rolleyes:) picked ahead of him?
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I've not said that Dembele is the best best box-to-box midfielder in Europe last season. I've simply cited a footballing analysis site that says he was last season and placed Pogba 6th in the ranking ... which at the very least suggests that my view of Dembele is not as out-of-whack as some posters like to pretend.

As to why he wasn't in the Belgian team, ask their manager. Perhaps he thought Dembele didn't fit with the way he wanted to play. In any case it was a mistake IMO.
 
Dembele is a good player on his day. I think what Glaston means is that both Pogba and Dembele would fight it out for the spots and it wouldn't be as linear as Pogba walking into the team. While I do disagree with him I can see exactly where he is coming from. Perhaps it wouldn't be as simple as that, perhaps Poch would try to accommodate both of them?
 
ADJUDICATOR said:
@GlastonSpur Why would Pogba compete with Dembele anyway? He'd displace Alli.
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Maybe. But when I've cited Alli's goals and assists stats at the age of 19, I've been told it's unfair to cite such stats since Pogba plays in CM and not as AM.

And yet when people criticised Pogba's lack-lustre performances in the Euros, they were told it's unfair because he's not suited to playing in CM alongside Matuidi.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Maybe. But when I've cited Alli's goals and assists stats at the age of 19, I've been told it's unfair to cite such stats since Pogba plays in CM and not as AM.

And yet when people criticised Pogba's lack-lustre performances in the Euros, they were told it's unfair because he's not suited to playing in the CM alongside Matuidi.
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I think most just mean Alli's impressive record, statistically speaking, is one of many factors in determining whether or not he has shown as much potential as Pogba did at 19. Players break through at different ages for different reasons not always in their control, so instead of 19 you should probably say 'first season of consistent top level football'.

Pogba and Alli are both offensive box-to-box midfielders, imo, and ideally you'd want to compare their performances in that role. Pogba's performances at the EUROs weren't in his natural role and they aren't relevant to begin with because you're talking about both of them at the time they broke through.
 
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