He controlled the games by playing as a midfield CB.
Declan Rice
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I mean Germany got a chance in the first 10 minutes, directly through that area with Rice slacking and not reacting. He was lucky to just get a yellow.
Then Havertz picked up the ball RIGHT IN Rice’s area, Rice wasn’t tight enough and Havertz slipped Werner through for a one on one. Thankfully Werner can’t finish to save his life.
Let’s not make out he’s superman here and stops all chances & let’s also not be so silly as to pretend that Rice is the key ingredient, more important than Stones, Maguire or Shaw. I’d argue in fact that it’s clear as day that our incredibly defensive tactics are the main reason we don’t concede. That and some terrible finishing from Werner and Müller.
That’s not to say Rice isn’t doing his job as asked, he is.
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Rice is over priced because they are currently many DMs of his quality of better all over Europe. It's one of the positions in football currently that does not have a lack of depth in quality. They'd simply be no point paying 70 plus for him when you can go else where and pick up a cheaper option with exact same or better qualities.
I’m sure it’s been discussed but I’ve missed it, but who else would you recommend that could step into the DM role for us as a starter?
Again you blame Rice for the chance that Sterling created when he passed the ball back and got intercepted.
Rice also was the player to create a tactical foul to stop Germany from scoring in the first chance which led to a yellow - not Phillips or the CB’s.
There was this chance he blocked from a corner too where Germany shot in the box but rice sensed it and blocked it before anyone else.
What? Watch the incident man, Havertz runs off Rice. This was the incident where Rice had to foul.
The incident in the second half had nothing whatsoever to do with anyone but Sterling.
For one, McT surely is doing the same job Rice is and I'd much rather spend 70m elsewhere where needed.
EPL: Phillips, Douglas, Ndidi, Bissouma, Anguissa
Bundesliga: Zakaria, neuhaus, Delaney, witsel, Aranguiz, Grillitsch
French Ligue 1: camavinga, tchoumeni, Bruno guimaraes
Eredevesie: koopmeiners, gravenberch
Lisandro martinez
Serie A: De Roon, Brozovic, Locatelli, Kessie
Portugal : Palinha,
La Liga: Saul, Willy Carvalho, Aranbarri...
Etc
I'm sure there are more. I feel the screening role in football has depth in numbers in term of quality in this era. That is why spending 70 plus million on any bar perhaps Saul. Doesn't make much sense....
William Carvalho? Really?
if Mark Noble came through the ranks today I reckon West Ham would want £50m for him
Wasnt Zakaria a horror show yesterday too?
It's quite simple. If you are buying a DM for ~£70m, he should be far better on the ball than Rice is.
People don't get it. We are already a team that is poor in possession(imo, one of the worst top sides at it). Why on earth would you spend so much money on someone who is average on the ball at best?
You can argue about simplicity all you want but does this guy take any responsibility of passing through the lines? He doesn't. It's not his game. He plays for a conservative side where this flaw isn't that much of a big deal. At United, it would be magnified multiple times. Dominating a midfield for West Ham is a totally different task to dominating a midfield for Manchester United. In 70% of games, the entire midfield's responsibility is breaking teams down. Do you want Rice having that kind of responsibility? My answer is no.
Liverpool, City's DMs should not be far better on the ball than United's. These are the standards we have to judge ourselves.
People don't get it. We are already a team that is poor in possession(imo, one of the worst top sides at it). Why on earth would you spend so much money on someone who is average on the ball at best?
You can argue about simplicity all you want but does this guy take any responsibility of passing through the lines? He doesn't. It's not his game. He plays for a conservative side where this flaw isn't that much of a big deal. At United, it would be magnified multiple times. Dominating a midfield for West Ham is a totally different task to dominating a midfield for Manchester United. In 70% of games, the entire midfield's responsibility is breaking teams down. Do you want Rice having that kind of responsibility? My answer is no.
Liverpool, City's DMs should not be far better on the ball than United's. These are the standards we have to judge ourselves.
Do not want him. You cannot afford multiple players who cannot pass in a top team, and we already have too many (AWB, Fred, McT).
Wan Bissaka’s passing is one of his best and most accurate aspects.
Wow, no wonder you love a bit of Rice.
I keep stressing this too somebody who can pass from deep instantly elevates our ability against parked buses. In terms of goals conceded we can also drastically reduce that number by just working on our ability to defend set pieces.
Shows how much football you watch
Wan Bissaka’s passing is so accurate and is often played direct to feet - a pass that bypasses 2 or 3 opposition.
Just because he as an attacker isn’t great doesn’t mean his passing is shit. His passing is very quick and accurate.
I don’t think there is a single player in that list who is both better and cheaper than Rice. But it all comes down to how highly you rate Rice and the players on that list, I suppose.
Yes really.
Come on man. All Premier League footballers can pass a bloody ball, but as passing goes, AWB’s passing is not one of his strongest and most accurate aspects.
He’s not in the England squad cause there’s about 5 English right backs who are all better on the ball than him.
He does the basics just fine, of course, and he’s an absolutely brilliant one on one defender, quite possibly the best in the World.
Bloody hell, he’s a bloody good player AWB but let’s not start pretending he’s an accomplished ball player.
That's it. If a player has deficiencies in his game, then the other aspects of their game needs to make up for it. Take Kante for example. He's not particularly great on the ball (despite the recent narrative to change that) but his ball recovering capabilities are the best in the world. The defensive side of Rice's game isn't so good that we can ignore his less than impressive passing.
I don’t know if barella is more of a CM or DM but we should be all over him after the tournaments he’s having for Italy. There’s a few in this tournament that have impressed and would be considered cheaper options then who we are looking at.
England's last game against Germany actually gave a good idea of how Rice might fit in at United. Rice and Maguire were essentially interchanging. Rice would drop back to defend when Maguire would bring the ball out, and Maguire would give the ball to Rice when Rice had space in front.
United rely on playing out of the back, and Maguire progressing the ball. Having a positionally aware midfield/CB combo player to complement to him gives the opposition something extra to deal with, and gives us solidity.
Now admittedly, it would be nice for Rice to play more forward passes than he typically does - but that I think, is coachable. He'll have the likes of Carrick, Matic, to learn from. The fact that he's homegrown is a nice to have bonus (but only a bonus).
Now I haven't watched a lot of Camivinga and other players mentioned here... But as much as I don't subscribe to the idea of spending a billion quid on Rice, we should seriously be considering him for 30/40m + Lingard kind of money.
United rely on playing out of the back, and Maguire progressing the ball. Having a positionally aware midfield/CB combo player to complement to him gives the opposition something extra to deal with, and gives us solidity.
Now admittedly, it would be nice for Rice to play more forward passes than he typically does - but that I think, is coachable. He'll have the likes of Carrick, Matic, to learn from. The fact that he's homegrown is a nice to have bonus (but only a bonus).
Now I haven't watched a lot of Camivinga and other players mentioned here... But as much as I don't subscribe to the idea of spending a billion quid on Rice, we should seriously be considering him for 30/40m + Lingard kind of money.
Sorry about Belgium last night. They did well. I am not a big fan of Rice, but I do think United have been told to buy players this year to keep fans happy. So who knows?
Both Matic and Carrick (peak) were fantastic players
Some people who only watch England and not West Ham believes he is incompetent. The people that watch him at west ham and see him playing an even more intelligent to reserved shielding game for England are impressed at his capabilities.
It’s a legit point
He won't be getting his dues till the time he is playing for one of the bigger clubs .
It is. He is a clean sheet machine.
What does that even mean? Is Mark Noble and Sterling clean sheet machines too?
If Brozovic is available for a third of the price as rumoured, I'd readily have him than pay West Ham's unreasonably inflated price. And he's a much better passer of the ball too. I like Rice, but not at the silly amounts being bandied about.
The trouble with that list there is that at least 50% don't play the screening role at all (Locatelli, Kessie). Some are not first team starters (Camavinga), some are not better than McTominay, who also isnt a DM (Witsel, Delaney, douglas, Carvalho). Others are going to be as expensive (phillips, Saul), and some are coming from Eredvisie. I am not a fan of buying Rice either, and don't want us to buy him, and we wont get him anyway, but I can see why clubs want him even at this inflated price.
Lingard is not going to West Ham, he wants to come back to United and after we have signed up Mata, Heaton, will do the same for Matic, I am almost certain we will bring Lingard back next season, why? Ole likes him, and United like nice lads around the place, forget winners, or people who want to win. People who are good in the dressing room and on the training pitch are more important.
So Champions League, Euros and World Cup winner Juan Mata isn't a winner now? Do we just pretend Matic hasn't got a couple of PL medals to his name? What a load of tosh.
They finished 13th in the clean sheet league, level with Burnley, so I’ve no idea what a clean sheet machine is.
Ahhhh. We're not factoring maintenance. That's what it is.
This is some of the biggest load of TOSH I've ever read. DDG, Shaw, Pogba, Bruno, Sancho, Rashford, Cavani, Mata, VDB are all players who've won major trophies with and without Utd yet Ole rates them highly.
Also there's a lot of attackers Lingard is behind in the pecking order(Sancho, Greenwood, Amad, Martial, Rashford, Cavani, Dan James) he left in January because of game time he's not coming back to fight for a place when it's even much harder to get a look in now than it was at the start of the year. Kinda like Smalling
I don’t think he’s incompetent at all, quite the opposite. He’s very competent at his job.
But I don’t think Italy can play like they do with him at the base of that midfield three, and therein lies my problem. If you wanna play like England thus far, well Rice is a safe bet.
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Well I'd argue half of the list is at least same level of Rice (or better), and cheaper too.
For example. Locatelli is valued at around 40m and he has better Euro than Rice.
Camavinga is reported valued at 50m (in final year contract), from what I've seen I believe he is far far more talented than Rice. (as good in tackling, and far better in dribbling and passing)
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