Better passer, better dribbler and better shooting technique. Not really a contest between those two...
Declan Rice
- Thread starter roonster09
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Better passer, better dribbler and better shooting technique. Not really a contest between those two...
Have u watched Garner much ? Nothing like Toni Kroos..absolutely nothing......
The guy is Makelele.
The guy makes the rest of the team play better, it gives the team a shape; a freedom to do as you please.
He stops the channels and the passing capabilities of the opposition before they even get the foot on the ball.
I just think that a player like him isn’t exactly easy to find - even if we need that new version of Carrick - I don’t see why we should bypass that new version of Makelele.
The Bruno Fernandes, Pogba, Fred and possibly VDB Hannibal and Garner doesn’t really highlight the need for more creativity as the thing we need the most in my opinion - we need that ability to have our creative players play with a freedom higher up the pitch with ease.
The guy makes the rest of the team play better, it gives the team a shape; a freedom to do as you please.
He stops the channels and the passing capabilities of the opposition before they even get the foot on the ball.
I just think that a player like him isn’t exactly easy to find - even if we need that new version of Carrick - I don’t see why we should bypass that new version of Makelele.
The Bruno Fernandes, Pogba, Fred and possibly VDB Hannibal and Garner doesn’t really highlight the need for more creativity as the thing we need the most in my opinion - we need that ability to have our creative players play with a freedom higher up the pitch with ease.
Rice is just another Schneiderlin. We just don't spend big money on this type of player.
Yup, minus the ability on the ball.
100 million pounds
In a world where Sancho goes for 72 million they want even more for Declan fecking Rice FFS
Lots of people are missing the point, lets not compare him to Matic in his prime, the only question you have to ask yourself is simply is he better than Fred or Scott? If so he'll make our team better.
Yes they're probably better people out there but 1 step at a time.
Yes they're probably better people out there but 1 step at a time.
When you're paying that sort of fee you don't want slightly better.
I respect your view but you just can't compare rice to makelele. May be both defensive midfielders. That's the only similarity between those two. He was totally different league compared to rice.
There is no comparison at all in playing style,ability on shielding the ball, snuff out danger, height,pace,single touch pass albeit always short passes. Nobody play well as makelele in that defensive midfield role not even kante in my humble opinion.
Rice and Matic are no way near alike!!
Two completely different styles and attributes.
Two completely different styles and attributes.
It's quite telling that Rice is rejecting contract extensions and pay raises from West Ham so it's quite clear that his head has been turned and he wants to move to a bigger club that is playing CL football.
Any deal for Rice is going to include Lingard without question so it's really now about how much can we get for Lingard as part of a deal. They want 100m for Rice which is fuking mental and no one would ever pay but even with including Lingard, if the total cost is more than £50M you've been robbed. Rice is a solid quality player but you don't pay that much for a guy who is a like for like type of player positionally for what we have now with Scott and Fred. I think Rice is very similar to Scott so what would be the point in buying him?
Any deal for Rice is going to include Lingard without question so it's really now about how much can we get for Lingard as part of a deal. They want 100m for Rice which is fuking mental and no one would ever pay but even with including Lingard, if the total cost is more than £50M you've been robbed. Rice is a solid quality player but you don't pay that much for a guy who is a like for like type of player positionally for what we have now with Scott and Fred. I think Rice is very similar to Scott so what would be the point in buying him?
The fact that he was there was encouraging, we never see any of mids being the last man back tracking runners. Fred doesn't do it, McT doesn't do it and Matic either, even in his prime. He lacked a little composure on the foul, and hopefully that would come with age, he was never going to be sent of though, as Walker would have made the tackle.I like his natural defensive positioning, I also like the way he was constantly organising those around him. We need someone to give Pogba and Bruno a bollicking from time to time. As many have said his price is the issue, he's no 80 mill player. Re Carrick I don't recall him being given stick for back passes, my issue with him was he tended to be a little passive. Like Matic, Carrick depended on being great positionally, but once his line was passed he wasn't one for getting back and making last ditch tackles. Rice can do that part but as you say his passing isn't as good as Carrick or Matic.He's at best 40 mill, but we ain't getting him at that price it seems.
Jacob Steinberg is a huge Hammers fan, the only time you will see him write a piece and admit Rice is going, is when its more or less an open secret and obvious where he is going. Otherwise he will have none of it.
But then when there is far fetched rumours of West Ham wanting someone, he really gives it encouragement of happening.
But then when there is far fetched rumours of West Ham wanting someone, he really gives it encouragement of happening.
Never seems to ever lose the ball. Regardless of what you think of him, his positioning and ball retention is absolutely spot on. Fantastic young player, with tonnes of upside, who'd walk into the team.
Price is ridiculous, though. Unless we can throw Lingard their way, I dont know if we'll commit to it.
Price is ridiculous, though. Unless we can throw Lingard their way, I dont know if we'll commit to it.
Better at carrying the ball and passing the ball than Rice will ever be. Looks like prime Matic is being underrated.
He’s peddling the over 100m narrative hard
So who should we looking at replacing Matic with then in your opinion
Yep, and if someone bids it, his article will change to "X make 100m bid for rice, but hammers insist he is not for sale, even for 100m" His articles are too biasedHe’s peddling the over 100m narrative hard
I can understand why you see it that way but I didn't feel encouraged at all after that situation, especially when it was followed up with the Germans running through the England midfield like knife through butter.
I'm open to being completely wrong about Rice, but I have yet to see anything that warrants the hype. Even when he made his first appearance in central defence he gained plaudits but I thought he looked extremely shaky. Granted, that was a few years ago so he obviously has improved, but still find him too limited for how I see a DM at United. His passing range (based on the matches I've seen) has been extremely limited. Even when there's an opportunity to play easy forward passes, he still choose to play it backwards. But I'm probably biased because it really annoys me when players play easy backwards passes and subsequently points to where his teammates should pass next when they could have easily done it themselves.
Usually the response is that he does the invisible but important job of ball recycling, but I still can't see that he does this so well that it will outweigh his passing limitations.
As for Carrick he got loads of stick for being a coward when it comes to passing. He even got trolled massively during a couple of Q&A's with questions like "Since you are unable to pass the ball forward, have you considered playing rugby?" and "what's the key to your fantastic linkup play with De Gea?". Which is ironic considering how good Carrick's passing range was and that he served up some of the best United assists in my lifetime.
Not gonna lie I have no idea at all. That being said anything above 40m is crazy. I have maintained that I think he is good enough defensively but I am yet to see anything to say he is good enough on the ball.
The answer isn't definitely yes, which is the biggest issue.
He's a player you fill the squad with, not spend north of £60m quid for. Going from Pogba in midfield to Declan Rice would be shambolic.
God i'd love a 26 year old Matic to add to our midfield.
Yeah that is my main concern about him as well
Just to be clear I'm not 100% sold on Rice either, certainly not at 80 mill or anything close to that. There are aspects of his game I like, and parts I don't. His weakness is obviously on the ball, to be fair to him he has looked better in any of the West Ham games I've seen, maybe needs to be a bit braver on the ball when playing for England. He's only 22, his game is still evolving, and i think it will get better, problem is West Ham want the type of coin you pay for a finished article not a work in progress.40 mill I'd snap him up in a heartbeat, anything over that I'd be wary. Carrick is a funny one, he seems to be much more appreciated now than when he played. Carrick was a great player, like any player he had his faults, his passing was top notch but for his talent he should have scored more goals and with his stature he should have been more physical in challenging for the ball
It's debatable whether he is, to be honest. He's obviously better at protecting the backline in deeper areas, but that's really about it. Unless you think that's enough to then allow Pogba to play in a midfield two (I don't) I don't think it's enough.
The transfer fee would be fecking ridiculous. Should be exploring other options.
How much would Ndidi be? Big fan of him.
Bit mad that no one's been linked to someone like Ndidi.
I know Leicester would ask for big money but I doubt it'd be close to 100m pounds
His stats compare very very favorably to Rice and he's a true DM
I know Leicester would ask for big money but I doubt it'd be close to 100m pounds
His stats compare very very favorably to Rice and he's a true DM
I think you'd be surprised. They held out for 80m for Maguire, and Ndidi is more important to them than Maguire ever was.Bit mad that no one's been linked to someone like Ndidi.
I know Leicester would ask for big money but I doubt it'd be close to 100m pounds
Leicester would demand at least 100m for Ndidi.
But yeah if Rice is truly an £80m midfielder Ndidi is probably worth double that.
But yeah if Rice is truly an £80m midfielder Ndidi is probably worth double that.
you have lost your mind with that comparison
Ndidi is shit. You don't want him !!
Bit mad that no one's been linked to someone like Ndidi.
I know Leicester would ask for big money but I doubt it'd be close to 100m pounds
His stats compare very very favorably to Rice and he's a true DM
On the defensive side, it doesn't really tell a full story. Those stats could just as well indicate that Rice is more positionally sound, not needing to make as many tackles. The pressing is probably best explained with the differing styles of both teams. With that being said, I think Ndidi is physically more impressive, more agile, quicker, probably stronger too. So he's likely better suited to pressing.
In terms of the DM position, I'd be most interested in the passing. Seems Ndidi is better there, but again, it's also down to what he's got around him and in front of him.
I like them both though. Will likely both be massively overpriced, but if forced to choose, I'd go for the one who is more hungry to win at all cost, if you can gauge that.
If we were to get Phillips would make way more sense to sell Fred.
With a CB with pace I don’t think he will
stick to the double pivot
Nice try. I think we'll go for Bellingham next summer and concentrate on Varane and/or Camavinga now.
If Garner turns out to be next Nicky Butt it will be an achievement. So far he has shown nothing of that sort.
Looking at the rumors, more likely Pogba will be sold than Fred.
For anyone that watches West Ham regularly would appreciate some feedback:
Does Rice play progressive forward passes? His role in England sees him being a water carrier, cutting passing lanes and passing sideways and based on that I really don’t see him as that much of an upgrade on mcfred...
I was under the assumption we were looking for more a carrick type DM with primary passing ability than a ?upgrade on what we already have
Does Rice play progressive forward passes? His role in England sees him being a water carrier, cutting passing lanes and passing sideways and based on that I really don’t see him as that much of an upgrade on mcfred...
I was under the assumption we were looking for more a carrick type DM with primary passing ability than a ?upgrade on what we already have
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