Last line sums it up.
Declan Rice
- Thread starter andersj
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Last line sums it up.
And we have no viable no 9s and we have Casemiro who plays Rice position? I'm all for signing Rice but he isn't a priority type of player we need where we can afford to pay 100m for him in my opinion.
We need an 8 who can play along side Casemiro and help us dominate the ball and a backup for Casemiro, don't think we want to pay 100m for Casemiro backup.
As for Caicedo, I'm sure people are more thinking of him as an 8, but I haven't seen him play enough to give an opinion on him being able to help us dominate the ball and create. Essentially we need an Eriksen upgrade in the 11 who can also get about the pitch and handle the physicality of the play
A cheaper option as the backup 6 makes more sense. If there is budget to get Rice in and do the rest though I am all for it
I'd have mega qualms if we forked out 80m on Caicedo imagining he could opetate as an 8. Enzo Fernandez can operate as an 8. Yet even he was ridiculously over priced because he had only been signed in January and had to be bought out of a 5 year contract.
Frankly as a 6 if you don't have Casemiro's Level of success you have zero business being priced higher than Man City paid for Rodri.(£63m) Which given inflation is about equivalent to the £35m Bayern paid for Javi Martinez before he helped win them a treble. That is why the 100m west ham think they deserve for Rice is laughable. Its doubtful anyone will pay it. They'd rather wait till he has a year left and get him for a third less.
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That is one part of what a DM does.
So I suppose RM, Barcelona, Bayern, and PSG are all after him then.
Yep, you could do with a more technical player next to Casemiro. Pairing Casemiro with another highly defensive-minded player like Rice could be counterproductive.
As a Chelsea fan I would absolutely take Rice. We already have Enzo who's got a good passing range and technical ability on the ball but we could use a proper DM anchor to play alongside him and complement Enzo's qualities. Sadly I don't think we'll get him though.
Very few players in the PL are more press resistant than Declan Rice. He hardly ever losses the ball.
He hardly ever gets pressed too
Brighton would be half the team they are without physical bullish Caicedo playing in their midfield.
For England he has never looked press resistant.
Ironically you might be the one team willing to spend the 100m west ham desire. After a mega fore sale of unwanted players of course.
My dream midfield before casemiro was rice & de jong. to me that had the right balance & age. I have a thing for 3rd cb cdms but i doubt its what ten hag wants because he uses inverted fbs as his 3rd cb cdms aswell.
Not that you should need stats to tell you Rice isn't the FDJ/Kroos profile midfielder we're talking about.
I think its a personnel thing. If he had 2 fullbacks he could invert he'd ptobsly usea 3rd center back DM like he did with De jong at ajax a lot. Operating almost like a Libero
Thats what i wanted rice to play like. I love how he eats up nearly all attacks for england but i think people dont rate his good passing that can be improved by a possesion based coach because he doesnt play that way for england even though he plays a totally different game for west ham. Rice as a libero & de jong as a roaming playmaker is what i wanted.
Rice dribbles out of pressure more than he makes a pass out of pressure.
Not that you should need stats to tell you Rice isn't the FDJ/Kroos profile midfielder we're talking about.
Why are we not talking about him in the same way then? How much would he cost?
So do many players for example FDJ, you need to be able to do both.
He will have less chances to dribble to do this with a team that will have more of the ball and play less on transition
Agreed, although we seem to have evolved from the Fergie model; perhaps with good reason in that no manager can bring out the best in British Isles players as Fergie could.
I wouldnt play rice like i would de jong or kroos. Rice's passing is good not great & i believe it can improve under a more possesion based manager than moyes. His passes are around the 75% mark avg when looking at fbref & i think it can get to the 80-5% with a better team & coach. But ultimately i wanted rice to be the midfield destroyer/interceptor, which is also something many midfielders no 8 dont have the ability to do themselves.
Its fair but we have Casemiro, I have no issue with Rice but for the money he would cost, he doesn't seem to make sense as a signing with what we already have.
I think Rice would be a good player in the role you describe, but I think we need a different profile to compliment Casemiro
I really, really hope Arse or Liverpool blow their load on him. Usually in these situations, I would just want the player to feck off to Spain or something. With this lad, I'm fairly confident he is going to be a disappointment for whatever team decides to sign him.
@sullydnl i'm a bit daft with these xG graphs. 
What's the comparison with Rice and Ward-Prowse? In plain English.
What's the comparison with Rice and Ward-Prowse? In plain English.
You don't think he would do well in the role Xhaka is playing right now? Or as an option when Partey is injured playing with Jorginho?
I think he would be worse than both of those options and so would massively fail to justify the outlay of, what, at least £80mill? Arsenal are going to regress next year in my opinion and Rice does very little to move them forward - I'd be very happy if the Arsenal blew their load on him, yep.
Not that you should need stats to tell you Rice isn't the FDJ/Kroos profile midfielder we're talking about.
But these are numbers highly dependent on the team. A player in a team with a higher completion rate and higher xg will look much better.
A player like Rodri increased his completion rate by three percent when he moved from A Madrid to Man City. You can also be sure that his xg per sequence improved significantly.
The average completion rate of the City players are 87 %. At WHU the average completion rate is 75 %. You dont think this is relevant?
Hmmm, not sure I agree but fair enough
I think the xG per sequence under pressure is what the OP was getting at
Ara, sure football is all opinions. He'll probably win a Balon D'Or now. I reckon he is mediocre and won't justify the price tag though and am confident enough in that assertion to have a rival spunk their load on him. God knows I've been wrong enough times though - really thought Reo-Coker was going to sort our midfield out completely at one stage...
Maybe. But same point. Put Henderson or Rodri at WHU and it would decrease their numbers significantly.
Price quoted at £100m/£120m, feck off. Good player but no club should be paying that.
Haha, indeed opinions.
I don't think he is a top-level player on the ball, but he is decent and has some good qualities about him. I've warmed to him over the past season, I think he can offer more robustness to the Arsenal midfield (they already create a lot) and need to improve defensively if they want to kick on. They can already dominate and control games, they are not defensively robust when they have a few players out and that has cost them the title this season.
For United I think hes the wrong profile because we can't dominate/control games, we need players who can help us with that first.
If Chelsea were willing to spend £100m on Rice he would have been a Chelsea player years ago. We’ve wanted to sign him since 2019. If West Ham are still insisting on that valuation, I suspect he will remain at that club next season again.
To be lower than McTominay or JWP? I don't think so
it would be the other way round though. Rice would be the box to box pressser and de jong the libero who drops in between the CBS and roams every where. Its how ETH played Lasse Schone with De jong
Henderson probably. Rodri its doubtful. For like a Carrick his natural style is to playmake from deep. So opponents would naturally always seek to put him under pressure to stop his team playing.
He's a fantastic player but it's just not happening, is it? West Ham have set their stall out for years. It's top money for him. We can't deploy that type of money when a striker is on the agenda. I personally think lots of the big clubs have wanted him but nobody has decided to reach their asking price, because it probably is over the top.
I think he's better when he's not playing a purely defensive role. He has done that for West Ham but I think it's not great because his passing range is not up there. He also becomes really defensive, almost between the centre backs. Seems to waste all his athletic and ball carrying skills in such a role. He can get back in and defend from any role because he's got the engine to do it.
I think he's better when he's not playing a purely defensive role. He has done that for West Ham but I think it's not great because his passing range is not up there. He also becomes really defensive, almost between the centre backs. Seems to waste all his athletic and ball carrying skills in such a role. He can get back in and defend from any role because he's got the engine to do it.
Would you not expect JWPs number to be quite good? Or do they make sure to only include open play?
(McT might not be very good, but he has played in a team alot better than WHU for a few years.)
Best thing is no one pays up for him and we get a run at him in Jan or for free next summer
No, why would I expect that? Ah set pieces, fair enough. Even then JWP numbers are not quite good are they... see for instance Romeu's numbers in the same team.