Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player

says a person blatant ignoring "7 goals in 15 league appearances"....



This is the first season he has been employed in a role that maximizes his sole strengh at United. So that argument holds no water.
Firstly, it isn't 7 in 15. It's 7 in 27. Or 9 in 36 in all competitions, if you prefer.

So, he has only ever played this role during one season in his professional career at United. Yet you seem to think this weakens my argument somehow? I repeat. He has never been a consistent goalscorer for United. This has never been his speciality. He has nothing that he specialises in as a player.
 
says a person blatant ignoring "7 goals in 15 league appearances"....



This is the first season he has been employed in a role that maximizes his sole strengh at United. So that argument holds no water.
Then the word consistent hardly holds water. Let’s see. It may be a one season thing , or it may not. Hopefully he can figure that out at a different club. Not good enough.
 
Firstly, it isn't 7 in 15. It's 7 in 27. Or 9 in 36 in all competitions, if you prefer.

So, he has only ever played this role during one season in his professional career at United. Yet you seem to think this weakens my argument somehow?
Obviously. Because he has been in the role just over a year for Scotland and has the numbers to back it up. Same with United where he is actually a bit part player, his first year in the role.

Trying to bring up his entire United career in which he has spent most of it as a make shift defensive midfielder, or his Scotland one in which a huge chunk was at center half as a debunking point, isn't the successful flex you think it is.
 
I wonder. For me the only reason he is still there is the team who really wanted him badly last two years, who he desire to jokn too, namely Barcelona were too broke to pick him up. This summer should be different since Arsenal and Bayern his two latest suitors have motive and opportunity to firm up any interest and the cash to make it happen.

Yeah, I must admit, I do worry he’s a bit of a home bird if that’s the case and might be pining for home within a season.
Think it might be now or never in terms of signing him, this season is the perfect time to recruit for that position, hopefully offloading Partey in the process. We also have guys like Smith-Rowe and Vieira that don’t seem to fit the system either.
 
Obviously. Because he has been in the role just over a year for Scotland and has the numbers to back it up. Same with United where he is actually a bit part player, his first year in the role.

Trying to bring up his entire United career in which he has spent most of it as a make shift defensive midfielder, or his Scotland one in which a huge chunk was at center half as a debunking point, isn't the successful flex you think it is.
The successful flex :lol: We are talking about McTominay being a consistent source of goals. This is an area you consider him to be a specialist at it. He simply does not have a body of work that backs up your claim. The fact that he's been deployed as a rubbish DM for years on end does nothing to strengthen your argument. He doesn't specialise in anything.
 
The successful flex :lol: We are talking about McTominay being a consistent source of goals. :
Wrong. We are debating your claim 'he specializes at nothing', which is demonstratbly false. You bringing up his days as a make shift defensive midfielder, which has nada to do with his strengths makes the claim it all the more laughbale
 
Wrong. We are debating your claim 'he specializes at nothing', which is demonstratbly false. You bringing up his days as a make shift defensive midfielder, which has nada to do with his strengths makes the claim it all the more laughbale
Yeah, I'm calling this a day. You believe he specialises in goals. I do not. You're wrong. I'm right. Goodnight.
 
Exactly this. I really dont get it when people say we have too many problems to spend big on one player. As if 100m can magically solve 5 problems. Which areas did we solve last summer again? 100m is a big number but in this case it practically guarantees one problem solved, for the next 5-7 years.

Totally understand if some still dont like him, but give me a Rice over 5 Amrabats any day.
To be fair, you spend 100m on players who take your problems from 5 to 2, when you are a team with issues. Unlike if you are a side like Arsenal.
 
I'm not sure he has. He plays in a much less reactive team, and one that sees a lot more of the ball, but I feel he displays the same limitations (in terms of creativity, passing range, appetite to pass forward) as he always has. I think there's a narrative around him that was set before the season started (not saying that's your case, more in the media) that has led to his performances not really being analysed or challenged.
Has he really? Is he really showing facets to his game he never had at West HAM? It seems he is rather simply producing higher levels of the same top tier DM out put he did at West Ham surrounded by vastly superior talent.

He already has more league goals and more assists this season than his last 2 seasons at West Ham combined.
 
He already has more league goals and more assists this season than his last 2 seasons at West Ham combined.
Which is an expected sign of the better players he is surrounded with not him adding anything new to his game. It's not like he has gone from single figures to double figures in goals. Taken a leap in shots per game nor from creating 1 key chance per 90 to like 2. He is literally doing the same numbers as he did at West Ham in such areas. With his passing accuracy numbers and distance of pass rightly much higher and directly up thanks to the superior quality and movement of those around him.


It's not like he has done a Bellingham at Real Madrid and revealed facets to his game no one believed or few knew were there.
 
He already has more league goals and more assists this season than his last 2 seasons at West Ham combined.

That's fairly meaningless given the contrasting styles of the two teams - and we hardly ever let him take a corner or set piece.

I saw him play 250+ times before he joined Arsenal. He hasn't changed, he's just in a different set up that pushes some things into the background, and others to the fore.
 
Which is an expected sign of the better players he is surrounded with not him adding anything new to his game. It's not like he has gone from single figures to double figures in goals. Taken a leap in shots per game nor from creating 1 key chance per 90 to like 2. He is literally doing the same numbers as he did at West Ham in such areas. With his passing accuracy numbers and distance of pass rightly much higher and directly up thanks to the superior quality and movement of those around him.


It's not like he has done a Bellingham at Real Madrid and revealed facets to his game no one believed or few knew were there.
Yeah playing for Arsenal rather than West Ham probably has nothing to do with that.
He already has more big chances created this season than in the previous 2 seasons combined. You can argue that playing Arsenal and West Ham is different but then what's the point of analysing his stats. I wouldn't say his performances haven't been really analysed in the media, here is an example of an analysis that highlights how he's been able to develop different parts of his game and how much he's contributed to the team.

https://theathletic.com/5358773/2024/03/30/declan-rice-arsenal-attacker-goals-assists/

That's fairly meaningless given the contrasting styles of the two teams - and we hardly ever let him take a corner or set piece.

I saw him play 250+ times before he joined Arsenal. He hasn't changed, he's just in a different set up that pushes some things into the background, and others to the fore.
Why not? Because he seems to be really good at it. He has 4 assists in 2024 just from set pieces alone. It seems like something that only Arteta and his coaching staff saw and were able to unlock.
 
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That's fairly meaningless given the contrasting styles of the two teams - and we hardly ever let him take a corner or set piece.

I saw him play 250+ times before he joined Arsenal. He hasn't changed, he's just in a different set up that pushes some things into the background, and others to the fore.
Also this is the highest scoring season to date.
 
He already has more big chances created this season than in the previous 2 seasons combined. You can argue that playing Arsenal and West Ham is different but then what's the point of analysing his stats.
It's fine to look at his stats - which is what you're doing.

Analysing them requires using context, your eyes and just looking at the big picture.
 
He already has more big chances created this season than in the previous 2 seasons combined. You can argue that playing Arsenal and West Ham is different but then what's the point of analysing his stats.
The point is to avoid people claiming a player has improved massively and "kicked on" yet his raw numbers in key metrics are similar to those at his previous team


I wouldn't say his performances haven't been really analysed in the media, here is an example of an analysis that highlights how he's been able to develop different parts of his game and how much he's contributed to the team.

https://theathletic.com/5358773/2024/03/30/declan-rice-arsenal-attacker-goals-assists/

.....
An article making the typical mistake I alluded to earlier. Conflating things like an increase in goal involvements with him 'getting better". Yet his key passes per 90 at West Ham last season compared to this one is STILL 1. Plus he just has 3 more chances created (36) than his entire season in the league at West Ham last season. That doesn't indicate a leap in development nor that he is becoming an attacking 8 as the article claims. He is simply doing the same level of things in a far better environment. Thus resultantly his passing accuracy, distance and goal involvements have rightly gone up. Same as progressive carries.

Infact the ONLY new thing drawn out of him at Arsenal has been set piece taking. Especially corners. Nothing else.
 
Cresswell and Bowen were always considerably better at set-pieces.

When you pay £105m for someone you have to find a way to make it look justified. Arsenal were stuttering badly going into the winter break. They came out of it strong having upgraded their set piece 'plays'.

One of those tactics was stacking beyond the far post against zonal marking. Rice saw that when Burnley did it to West Ham two years ago, like Arsenal did in February.
 
A goal and another lovely assist. 17 G/A this season so far.

Him and Partey in midfield are absolutely dominant. Shame we didn't get to see more of it this season.
 
7 goals and 8 assists in the premier league this season. Also his 3rd game in a row with an assist. None of our midfielders come close to that output. And while I thought it was obvious he would have improved us a lot I cant say I was expecting so much in the final third. We'd have had much more of a spine and be tougher to beat which has been a big issue.

Will be signing of the season for the premier league if Arsenal win the title. Top 3 if they come second
 
A goal and another lovely assist. 17 G/A this season so far.

Him and Partey in midfield are absolutely dominant. Shame we didn't get to see more of it this season.

It’s a partnership that’s let be honest, shouldn’t be allowed and not because of football reasons.
 
Massive player. Among the three 100+ million midfielders, he is undoubtedly the best of them and arguably proven to be good value despite the high price tag. If only our manager had not been obsessed and chased Mount all season.
 
7 goals and 8 assists in the premier league this season. Also his 3rd game in a row with an assist. None of our midfielders come close to that output. And while I thought it was obvious he would have improved us a lot I cant say I was expecting so much in the final third. We'd have had much more of a spine and be tougher to beat which has been a big issue.

Will be signing of the season for the premier league if Arsenal win the title. Top 3 if they come second

Fernandes does
 
7 goals and 8 assists in the premier league this season. Also his 3rd game in a row with an assist. None of our midfielders come close to that output. And while I thought it was obvious he would have improved us a lot I cant say I was expecting so much in the final third. We'd have had much more of a spine and be tougher to beat which has been a big issue.

Will be signing of the season for the premier league if Arsenal win the title. Top 3 if they come second

This is where Man. United are going wrong a bit. Yes Rice for 100m + was a fee endlessly debated on here and would've seemed excessive to many but he was 24 when he signed so moving into his peak years in critical position on the pitch.

Casemiro signed for Man. United in 70m deal. Good six months out of him before his massive decline so you'll effectively have to now spend more than Arsenal on two players and no guarentee Casemiro's replacement will be even on Rice's level.
 
This is where Man. United are going wrong a bit. Yes Rice for 100m + was a fee endlessly debated on here and would've seemed excessive to many but he was 24 when he signed so moving into his peak years in critical position on the pitch.

Casemiro signed for Man. United in 70m deal. Good six months out of him before his massive decline so you'll effectively have to now spend more than Arsenal on two players and no guarentee Casemiro's replacement will be even on Rice's level.
That is 100 percent true, their deal was better than ours and can always sell to make some of that money back as well.
 
I have written a lot of stupid things here over the years - but I never once questioned what a brilliant player Rice was. It's sad we weren't backed to get him when OGS wanted him
 
Reading the first page of this thread is beautiful.
Yes there are some very bad takes, but to be charitable, he has surpassed even the highest expectations. SIXTEEN goal contributions? I thought he was going to be our defensive midfielder.
 
Yes there are some very bad takes, but to be charitable, he has surpassed even the highest expectations. SIXTEEN goal contributions? I thought he was going to be our defensive midfielder.

Tbf when he did get forward for West Ham last season he was productive in attack. Not too surprising that his stats have increased going from a very defensive team to a very attacking possession based one. Cas probably could've done similar in a similar team if his legs hadn't gone. Shortsighted from United again
 
Superb player. He’s added final third productivity to his game this season, which gives him a whole new dimension. Like I knew he was a brilliant player but if he can give them 5-7 goals roughly 10 assists per season on top of all the things we know he’s great at, yikes.
 
Not just because of today, but anyone suggesting that Rice isn’t worth his fee is mental. So few transfers north of £70m work out.

Arsenal have a good off pitch team. Rice will either stay for 6+ years and be sold for a fee that recoups half or more of his fee, or be sold sooner and recoup all of it.

It’s an incredible piece of business. Defensively solid, goal involvements, leadership. Were it not for the Norwegian he’d probably be Captain next year.