Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player

[Zagoon]

It just seems like just because he excels in a few areas there is a constant minimizing of the scope of things Rice is expected to be good at while still somehow retaining this brilliant midfield colossus reputation.

The math isn't mathing. This is a fairly basic skill that even John Stones pulls off with ease and yet "one of the best DMs in the world" is being absolved of this responsibility. It seems like a lot of Arsenal fans want to adjust standards to meet Rice where he is instead of having him rise to the level.

Of course Rice can receive and turn in possession, as you said that is basic skills you learn at the academy. Rice would have never made it this far and gone for the price Arsenal paid for him.

The main difference between Partey and Rice, and what makes Partey better at receiving in those zones is that Partey has the skill and experience as an "Arsenal six", to be able to create space for himself on his own. Rice, who is able to play the same role, is not able to receive and create space at the level Partey can at this stage.

For what its worth, Partey himself had to learn to play the role he excels at now. He didnt just come in from Atleti and play the way we see him do now.

The key bit for Rice, and what makes him so good for us, is that he can do a multitude of things for us, across our first and second phase of play.

Rice can drop into the defense due to his experience there, opening up more central space for Zinchenko to move into without worrying about spaces behind.
Rice can play as a six himself, giving us that distribution, reading of the game and ground cover in a key area of the pitch.
Rice can move up into the 8 role, allowing us to keep the ball high up for longer due to his reading of the game and ability to react in time. Also, his ability to recover the ball himself if it is lost in transition.

Rice is a 100m player already, and if he maintains his fitness as he has done so far in his career, he'll be 200m by the time he is 28.

 

[Taribo's Gap]

Of course Rice can receive and turn in possession, as you said that is basic skills you learn at the academy. Rice would have never made it this far and gone for the price Arsenal paid for him.

The main difference between Partey and Rice, and what makes Partey better at receiving in those zones is that Partey has the skill and experience as an "Arsenal six", to be able to create space for himself on his own. Rice, who is able to play the same role, is not able to receive and create space at the level Partey can at this stage.

For what its worth, Partey himself had to learn to play the role he excels at now. He didnt just come in from Atleti and play the way we see him do now.

The key bit for Rice, and what makes him so good for us, is that he can do a multitude of things for us, across our first and second phase of play.

Rice can drop into the defense due to his experience there, opening up more central space for Zinchenko to move into without worrying about spaces behind.
Rice can play as a six himself, giving us that distribution, reading of the game and ground cover in a key area of the pitch.
Rice can move up into the 8 role, allowing us to keep the ball high up for longer due to his reading of the game and ability to react in time. Also, his ability to recover the ball himself if it is lost in transition.

Rice is a 100m player already, and if he maintains his fitness as he has done so far in his career, he'll be 200m by the time he is 28.

Only one footballer has ever gone for that kind price. Either you think football inflation will go absurdly bonkers over the next four years or Declan Rice will be a perennial Ballon d'Or candidate and one of the best midfielders ever by that time.

 

[Zagoon]

Only one footballer has ever gone for that kind price. Either you think football inflation will go absurdly bonkers over the next four years or Declan Rice will be a perennial Ballon d'Or candidate and one of the best midfielders ever by that time.

Well Antony has gone for 90m already, Enzo at 105m and Caicedo's at 115m as of this past window.

The release clause on Osimhen is 130m.

Four years is probably a conservative estimate for 200m IMO.

 

[Taribo's Gap]

Well Antony has gone for 90m already, Enzo at 105m and Caicedo's at 115m as of this past window.

The release clause on Osimhen is 130m.

Four years is probably a conservative estimate for 200m IMO.

Whew, at least you went with the inflation route .

Cheers

 

[GoonerGirly]

Underwhelmed in terms of not performing relative to the hype and price tag. Where is the clean one touch passing under pressure, body positioning, range of pass, close control etc. You can't sign a midfielder like Rice for £100m and play a possession based style. His limitations are a big reason why we've struggled to create so far this season

I would agree to an extent, but I'm not too concerned. Yes we've struggled to create but still we're in a good position and have only lost 1 game in all comps, and still undefeated in the league. CL is a new challenge for us, so I think direct comparisons to last season are difficult to make.
I think we have a good foundation and we seem to be more solid than last season, harder to beat. We (along with City) have conceded the least amount of goals (6) so far. We also haven't been able to play Martinelli/Jesus/Saka together yet this season, and are still trying to figure out how Havertz best fits into the squad. So no doubt Arteta has some things to sort out but it's still early days. I think we'll only improve going forward as the season goes on.

 

[Dancfc]

Rice at six works already and will only improve as he settles more into our system, whether he improves his ability on the half turn or not.

I think it's very telling Arteta moved him out of that position against City both times.

Hope he puts him back there against us because I feel we'd get a lot of joy with Palmer pressing him.

 

[Member 117152]

Thanks. I was just trying to piece together your logic that Casemiro was carrying your midfield by himself in comparison to Rice. Would you rather have Eriksen or Mount over Havertz I’d presume?

United are usually playing with too few people in the middle of the park. We are always outnumbered against the better sides in the league in the middle.

Bruno and Casemiro are great footballers and everyone knows this but the problem is often lack of movement around them especially from the forwards. Lack of options to find on the ball is compounded by only having Luke Shaw who is a good enough wing back on the ball in my opinion.

Poor decisions made in training during the summer, injuries, players rejecting us ‘Kim and Kane’, takeover confusion and lack of confidence due to all issues above have ruined the side for big portions of this season.

Amrabat is really the key now. Bruno, Cas with Amrabat the deepest of the trio would be my midfield when Shaw returns. You have control and bite. Casemiro can be more box to box. He’s no deep lying playmaker.

 

[Nish115]

I think it's very telling Arteta moved him out of that position against City both times.

Hope he puts him back there against us because I feel we'd get a lot of joy with Palmer pressing him.

Not sure i've seen him lose the ball once by being pressed this season, not sure where that comes from? (he probably has just doesn't ring a bell).

He is very smart tbh, normally offloads the ball before it becomes an issue.

 

[Dancfc]

Not sure i've seen him lose the ball once by being pressed this season, not sure where that comes from? (he probably has just doesn't ring a bell).

He is very smart tbh, normally offloads the ball before it becomes an issue.

When I say 'joy' I mean more in the sense he'd see Palmer/whoever on his back and hide from showing for the ball in the build up which will slow you down and suit us down to the ground in that phase of play.

When watching him for England that was my biggest critisism of him when his team have possesion, I noticed a lot he was hiding behind the forwards and leaving the area of the pitch he should have been showing for an option absolutely gaping.

I feel (similar to Kante) long term he's either in a "double 6" next to a Jorginho/Enzo type or in a 4-3-3 an 8.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

When I say 'joy' I mean more in the sense he'd see Palmer/whoever on his back and hide from showing for the ball in the build up which will slow you down and suit us down to the ground in that phase of play.

Palmer is such a great addition for Chelsea. I would want Palmer over Havertz in Arsenal back in summer simply because he can play both the #8 role and also provide competition to Saka.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

When I say 'joy' I mean more in the sense he'd see Palmer/whoever on his back and hide from showing for the ball in the build up which will slow you down and suit us down to the ground in that phase of play.

McSauce can do that at half the price

 

[Zagoon]

When I say 'joy' I mean more in the sense he'd see Palmer/whoever on his back and hide from showing for the ball in the build up which will slow you down and suit us down to the ground in that phase of play.

When watching him for England that was my biggest critisism of him when his team have possesion, I noticed a lot he was hiding behind the forwards and leaving the area of the pitch he should have been showing for an option absolutely gaping.

I feel (similar to Kante) long term he's either in a "double 6" next to a Jorginho/Enzo type or in a 4-3-3 an 8.

Its clear you havent watched Arsenal enough if you think Rice "hides" from being the first receiver in midfield. There are numerous examples of him being central in the six zone, where he has to either lay it off to the fullback or if not pressured, turn himself. And if that doesnt work as you are suggesting, then we'll have Raya go longer and out wide, to get closer to goal and force mistakes from your backline with our forward pressure.

I think its a moot discussion point though, because with our main six back, its likely Partey to occupy those zones, with Rice pushing higher up (interchanging with Zinchenko) and look to create higher turnovers.

It will be an interesting game no doubt. Chelsea look more organised of late, and are at home with a point to prove. Arsenal will have to be at their best to compete.

 

[ThierryHenry]

Rice has been brilliant for us, but he's not a 'six'/ lone-pivot/ standalone defensive midfielder for a ball-dominant team, I think that's obvious? Hence why every game he's played this season, he's had either Zinchenko or Partey playing alongside him, so that the responsibility for ball progression and line-breaking passes doesn't just fall to Rice. We'd obviously struggle if that was the case.

 

[Nickelodeon]

Not his biggest fan, far from it, but that was a quality finish today. Mctominay-esque

 

[Gene Loblaw]

nice goal and a winners' attitude from this chap today. Liked the look of him at the 8 today. Even though I don't think it's where he's best suited. Ready to see the Odegaard, Rice, Partey midfield though. Jorginho doesn't have the legs to play the way Arteta wants

 

[GoonerGirly]

nice goal and a winners' attitude from this chap today. Liked the look of him at the 8 today. Even though I don't think it's where he's best suited. Ready to see the Odegaard, Rice, Partey midfield though. Jorginho doesn't have the legs to play the way Arteta wants

Yeh he has fast become a real leader for us, has such fight in him. No surprises there and his attitude is a big reason Arteta went so big on him IMO. Was expecting to see Partey too, hope it's just precautionary from Arteta not bringing him on. Or perhaps as we were chasing the game he wanted more attacking players.

 

[Donaldo]

Just getting better and better with each performance. I'm pleasantly surprised by how quickly he's assimilated and shone.

 

[GoonerGirly]

Just getting better and better with each performance. I'm pleasantly surprised by how quickly he's assimilated and shone.

He has very quickly made the insane money spent on him almost look like a bargain. I was one of those who felt we were getting fleeced by West Ham. Doesn't seem like that now. He was immense against Sevilla, was everywhere and made some good runs from deep. He doesn't look particularly fast but is so strong. Sevilla players couldn't get near him at times. Long may it continue.

 

[WeePat]

He has very quickly made the insane money spent on him almost look like a bargain. I was one of those who felt we were getting fleeced by West Ham. Doesn't seem like that now. He was immense against Sevilla, was everywhere and made some good runs from deep. He doesn't look particularly fast but is so strong. Sevilla players couldn't get near him at times. Long may it continue.

Saying he's making £105M look like a bargain is genuinely insane, I'm sorry. I think he's been fantastic, don't get me wrong, he's been excellent and your best player by miles in most games this season, and very good again last night. I'd say to even say he's justified his fee already would be crazy to say, but you're saying he's made it look like a bargain? That's genuinely fecking wild.

 

[Changeisgood]

Arsenals fans are genuinely happy with Rice so far, which is more than we can say about our other signings. Poor Timber with the ACL on the first day and the other two are at the very least questionable. 105 mil seems fine at this point in time. No shaky performances and we seem to have gained some leadership. We are going back in circles here. 105 mil was too much but at this point of time we can now rationalize it.

Honestly, were Caicedo, Enzo & Mudryk worth what Chelsea paid at the time? Of course not, but they may turn out to be good long term players for the club and the fee will start looking worthwhile.

I am still surprised we ended up chasing Havertz for 65 mil. Still looks like a squad player to me.

 

[GoonerGirly]

Saying he's making £105M look like a bargain is genuinely insane, I'm sorry. I think he's been fantastic, don't get me wrong, he's been excellent and your best player by miles in most games this season, and very good again last night. I'd say to even say he's justified his fee already would be crazy to say, but you're saying he's made it look like a bargain? That's genuinely fecking wild.

Don't take everything so literally, that's why I said *almost*
And when you look at what other similar players have gone for (Chelsea paying similar fees for Enzo and Caceido), he looks well worth it. With Partey being out for most of the season so far, he has carried our midfield.

 

[WeePat]

Don't take everything so literally, that's why I said *almost*
And when you look at what other similar players have gone for (Chelsea paying similar fees for Enzo and Caceido), he looks well worth it. With Partey being out for most of the season so far, he has carried our midfield.

I'm sorry but 'almost looks a bargain' is also an insane thing to say when we're talking about £105M

Rice hasn't been miles better than Enzo and Caicedo, certainly not enough of a gap in performances to say he looks well worth it based on how Enzo and Caiceco have played.

 

[WeePat]

Arsenals fans are genuinely happy with Rice so far, which is more than we can say about our other signings. Poor Timber with the ACL on the first day and the other two are at the very least questionable. 105 mil seems fine at this point in time. No shaky performances and we seem to have gained some leadership. We are going back in circles here. 105 mil was too much but at this point of time we can now rationalize it.

Honestly, were Caicedo, Enzo & Mudryk worth what Chelsea paid at the time? Of course not, but they may turn out to be good long term players for the club and the fee will start looking worthwhile.

I am still surprised we ended up chasing Havertz for 65 mil. Still looks like a squad player to me.

No Caicedo , Enzo and Mudryk were not worth their fees when they were signed and I doubt there'll ever come a time where they'll make their fees look like bargains. They'd have to play at Ballon d'Or contender levels probably for that to ever be a thing I utter about them.

I think Rice is a great signing for Arsenal and on course to being your player of the season, if he continues like this. I totally appreciate your fans love him and he's in turn hit the ground running from the start. He's not made £105M look like a bargain though

 

[Donaldo]

Definitely making £105M look like a bargain.

 

[GoonerGirly]

I am still surprised we ended up chasing Havertz for 65 mil. Still looks like a squad player to me.

It does look like Arteta cannot fit him into our starting XI right now. Not too bothered though because the squad depth we have right now is so good.

I'm sorry but 'almost looks a bargain is also an insane thing to say when we're talking about £105M

Rice hasn't been miles better than Enzo and Caicedo, certainly not enough of a gap in performances to say he looks well worth it based on how Enzo and Caiceco have played.

I think they'll all prove to be worth their hefty fees in the long run personally. Unlike poor Newcastle who was fleeced by Milan for Tonali, for example.

 

[ForFuchsSake]

Don't take everything so literally, that's why I said *almost*
And when you look at what other similar players have gone for (Chelsea paying similar fees for Enzo and Caceido), he looks well worth it. With Partey being out for most of the season so far, he has carried our midfield.

Perhaps it’s just my cynicism at the absurd inflation of transfer fees in recent seasons but I don’t think you can make a case for any of them being worth the amounts paid, certainly not ‘looking like a bargain’.

Rice is an excellent player but if you’re paying £100m+ for a player, I’m still expecting elite levels over a duration of time in order to justify that. Maybe that is a high bar, I’d even argue that Bellingham still has a long way to go and he’s certainly been a level above Rice.

Consistent world-class performances would justify those kind of fees but still over a sustained period of time. Bellingham’s got the first bit but obviously needs time for the second.

Rice has been really, very good but still has a long, long way to go to justify his price tag. Same with Enzo, Caicedo and (quite frankly) a lot of £100m+ players.

 

[Changeisgood]

No Caicedo , Enzo and Mudryk were not worth their fees when they were signed and I doubt there'll ever come a time where they'll make their fees look like bargains. They'd have to play at Ballon d'Or contender levels probably for that to ever be a thing I utter about them.

I think Rice is a great signing for Arsenal and on course to being your player of the season, if he continues like this. I totally appreciate your fans love him and he's in turn hit the ground running from the start. He's not made £105M look like a bargain though

I agree and I may be old fashioned but I am not sure I can say any player at 105 mil can be a bargain. I would not use that word to describe a 105 mil player. He is a good signing so far...overpriced hell yes, but not many are not at this point in time. If he plays at a top level like he is right now, we will have rationalized paying that much to not have to worry about who you are going to play there week in week out.

If we could sort out every weak position with a 100 mil on average for 5+ years at our current moment in time, then most of the top teams would take that option.

Problem is when the 100 mil player turns out to be a dud for your club.

 

[Mogget]

Definitely making £105M look like a bargain.

If anything that's too much of an understatement.

 

[jakko]

Arsenals fans are genuinely happy with Rice so far, which is more than we can say about our other signings. Poor Timber with the ACL on the first day and the other two are at the very least questionable. 105 mil seems fine at this point in time. No shaky performances and we seem to have gained some leadership. We are going back in circles here. 105 mil was too much but at this point of time we can now rationalize it.

Honestly, were Caicedo, Enzo & Mudryk worth what Chelsea paid at the time? Of course not, but they may turn out to be good long term players for the club and the fee will start looking worthwhile.

I am still surprised we ended up chasing Havertz for 65 mil. Still looks like a squad player to me.

Not even good enough to be a squad player.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

It's funny to see how wummy some Arse fans have gotten.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Definitely making £105M look like a bargain.

Maddison for £40m is a bargain. £88m for Bellingham justified the fee or may be considered a bargain as well. £105M for Rice definitely is not.

 

[Taribo's Gap]

Maddison for £40m is a bargain. £88m for Bellingham justified the fee or may be considered a bargain as well. £105M for Rice definitely is not.

It's very difficult for a high-dollar transfer to be deemed a bargain. The only one I would definitely classify as such is, unfortunately for United, Ronaldo to Madrid. You have to perform at extraordinary levels to be deemed a bargain at such a price point and that is definitely not Declan Rice at the moment.

 

[Donaldo]

It's funny to see how wummy some Arse fans have gotten.

Better than being a snide prick, as is rightly said in the ancient texts

 

[Donaldo]

Maddison for £40m is a bargain. £88m for Bellingham justified the fee or may be considered a bargain as well. £105M for Rice definitely is not.

Get with the program. It's a bargain because Weepat said so.

 

[WeePat]

Get with the program. It's a bargain because Weepat said so.

You can just quote me if you want to talk me. You don't have to be scared.

 

[Donaldo]

You can just quote me if you want to talk me. You don't have to be scared.

Well to be completely fair, I'm agreeing with you. The world's gone mad if a 105m player exists and is rated.

 

[WeePat]

Well to be completely fair, I'm agreeing with you. The world's gone mad if a 105m player exists and is rated.

I mean you can be sarcastic about this if you want but what I’m saying isn’t even remotely controversial.

 

[GoonerBear]

I mean you can be sarcastic about this if you want but what I’m saying isn’t even remotely controversial.

The problem with the fee, like you Chelsea fans have found out, is that it gets brought up in every occasion.When he plays well, it’s brought up by Arsenal fans trying to justify the fee, when he’s played poor it’s brought up by rival fans looking to knock the fee paid.

I prefer to forget the fee paid nowadays. Is he a good player, is he performing well, does he improve the team and the squad?? That’s all I’m really bothered about.

 

[Lash]

Maddison for £40m is a bargain. £88m for Bellingham justified the fee or may be considered a bargain as well. £105M for Rice definitely is not.

Correct. Finally some sense in here.

 

[GoonerGirly]

I prefer to forget the fee paid nowadays. Is he a good player, is he performing well, does he improve the team and the squad?? That’s all I’m really bothered about.

I agree with this and is what I really meant when I brought up the bargain comment (didn't think it would spark such discussion, or did I )
In all seriousness though, with Rice you get other priceless qualities - leadership, monster mentality, professional attitude. I'm sure these are also big reasons Arteta was so desperate for him. I love Odegaard, but Rice is absolutely captain material.
When I consider 19yo Lavia went for £58mil in the same window, Rice's fee makes more sense. It is the lesser risk IMO and more importantly, Rice is ready to do the job NOW. If we got Lavia instead, I'm not so sure he'd be running our midfield in Partey's absence quite so well. Partey himself cost us £45mil and at most we're going to get 3-4 years out of him. Not even when you consider his significant absences (he's been injured about 35% of the time he's been here). Rice is very reliable, hardly gets injured (hope I haven't now jinxed him) and if we get 7-8 years out of him and he elevates us to the next level, that fee will not matter years down the track. Here's hoping it all goes to plan.