Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player

Zagoon said:
Dont watch football games you say :)

Trust me mate, I do watch football and I do a little more too.

What I think you are actually saying is that my opinion dont align with your opinions on football. And that's ok, as that what a forum is for ultimately.
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Is Partey, Busquets, Rodri and Rice just a destroyer to you?

If they are then that’s just how you describe players.
 
Fabinho, Paulinha are probably the closest things to destroyers but tbh not many left these days.

Torreira was for us
 
Nish115 said:
Fabinho, Paulinha are probably the closest things to destroyers but tbh not many left these days.

Torreira was for us
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No idea about the others But Fabinho at his peak was definitely more than the Destroyer at least seemed so from little I saw of him .
 
Bebestation said:
Is Partey, Busquets, Rodri and Rice just a destroyer to you?

If they are then that’s just how you describe players.
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Those players are very different from each other, apart from maybe Rodri and Busquets.
 
Hammondo said:
Those players are very different from each other, apart from maybe Rodri and Busquets.
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That’s why I’m asking to him if they are all destroyers- because to only call Casemiro a destroyer is wrong unless you call every CDM a destroyer.
 
Bebestation said:
That’s why I’m asking to him if they are all destroyers- because to only call Casemiro a destroyer is wrong unless you call every CDM a destroyer.
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Yea I think he has a way of thinking and hes trying to force reality to fit it.
 
Question for you all, and might be tough to get a real answer.

Before Casemiro moved to United, and just a gauge of his Madrid performances, what would you have called him?

Because, tbh i'd have also thought he was more of a destroyer then, with Kroos and Modric ahead doing more of the creating.

At United last season he also had a good passing range and vision and scored a few goals, so fair to say last season he offered more than just a destroyer, but I can see why people have that mindset.
 
Nish115 said:
Question for you all, and might be tough to get a real answer.

Before Casemiro moved to United, and just a gauge of his Madrid performances, what would you have called him?

Because, tbh i'd have also thought he was more of a destroyer then, with Kroos and Modric ahead doing more of the creating.

At United last season he also had a good passing range and vision and scored a few goals, so fair to say last season he offered more than just a destroyer, but I can see why people have that mindset.
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Well Real Madrid is not buying and using any midfielder who's just a destroyer, their standards are higher.
 
Nish115 said:
Question for you all, and might be tough to get a real answer.

Before Casemiro moved to United, and just a gauge of his Madrid performances, what would you have called him?

Because, tbh i'd have also thought he was more of a destroyer then, with Kroos and Modric ahead doing more of the creating.

At United last season he also had a good passing range and vision and scored a few goals, so fair to say last season he offered more than just a destroyer, but I can see why people have that mindset.
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I only really watched him in the Champions League and on that basis perceived him as a destroyer. That said, most teams (especially that Madrid side) play more conservatively in that competition so it’s not necessarily a fair reflection of him as a player. His statistics for progression in the league for Madrid were very good, just not as exceptional as Kroos and Modric.

In any case, we’ve seen what he can do in a full season in the Premier League in a different system and that should be enough to dispel any previously held beliefs.
 
A quality young Defensive Midfielder and a Captain.

I wanted him last year, obviously hope he flops now.

we've got Casemiro who has done very well.

so this summer Rice to United never looked on the cards. We were never going to spend big on a player in that DM position, especially when priorities lay elsewhere...
 
sifi36 said:
You'll have to forgive me for not accepting the definition a website none of us have heard of. Many observers and pundits have expressed surprise at the fact that Casemiro offered so much in possession last season compared to their understanding that he was a pure destroyer, despite the fact that his statistical profile at Madrid didn't support this assertion anyway.

The reason this conversation started was my statement that pure destroyers have no place in a modern progressive side - you have to offer something in possession too, which I do not believe Rice has shown in his career thus far. Casemiro was brought up as an example of someone who potentially doesn't fit with my assertion on the basis that he isn't the best at deep build-up, a statement that I would agree with. My argument is that Casemiro does offer something in possession, as can be seen by the fact that he ranks highly for progressive passing, passes into the final third, assists and expected assists. Whilst this isn't what one would ordinarily expect from a defensive midfielder, it means he doesn't falls into the archetype of a pure destroyer and therefore my original assertion stands.
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On your second paragraph, yes I agree fully with your description here. Casemiro is a great player and excellent addition to United. But as you say, he would not be suitable for a team like Arsenal, or at least initially until Casemiro changes his game to suit what we need at six. And yes again with Rice, he would need to adjust his game to suit what we need at six, or to do that as his main job in our side. For now, Partey has the roles and responsibilities well under control.

As for the first paragraph on the arbitrary website and its description of a destroyer, sure I accept your rejection of that.
 
Bebestation said:
Is Partey, Busquets, Rodri and Rice just a destroyer to you?

If they are then that’s just how you describe players.
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The above players are not just destroyers for me. Or let me be clear and say that they cannot play as pure destroyers in their respective teams. Ill remove Rice from that list for now, because we havent seen enough of him in a ball playing, ball progressive system. But we can see that he has the attributes in place, to fill that role in Arsenal's system.

I describe the above players as ball progressors, and their key role in their respective teams is to be involved in the progression of play from the defensive phase, with the ball at their feet. Obviously they would need to break up play and act as a destroyer but its not what they are measured for.

Based on my view of the role, I say that different types of players suit the six roles for different types of team setups. That is why I say Casemiro as a destroyer, is well suited for an aggressive transition team like United.

But Ill also say that perhaps I need to watch Casemiro more this season. Ill do that, as perhaps I am missing something that you are all seeing.
 
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Samid said:
He was holding Hammers back.
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He's a great player, but last season he shifted more offensive more often, resulted in a few goals for him but completely unbalanced the midfield in the process which had a clear net negative on the side.

Now we have another dedicated DM its no surprise that the rest of the team is functioning again and results have improved, Alvaraz allows those further up to do what they need to do.

I'd have expected 6pts from the opening 4 games, so to be standing on 10 already eases the pressure for the next few difficult games, though I think we probably are capable of beating anyone this year on our day, bar maybe City who won't lose many this year again.
 
Koldbeer2021 said:
He's a great player, but last season he shifted more offensive more often, resulted in a few goals for him but completely unbalanced the midfield in the process which had a clear net negative on the side.

Now we have another dedicated DM its no surprise that the rest of the team is functioning again and results have improved, Alvaraz allows those further up to do what they need to do.

I'd have expected 6pts from the opening 4 games, so to be standing on 10 already eases the pressure for the next few difficult games, though I think we probably are capable of beating anyone this year on our day, bar maybe City who won't lose many this year again.
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If I remember correctly we wanted Rice to play CB.


I’m jealous of the Alvarez deal. I thought that should have been the play when we promised to come back last January.

Jealous of the Kudus deal as well actually … you guys are putting together some quality stuff, and keeping Paq … building a really good team there.
 
He’s at the standard required to play for them.. he’d look lost in a better team.
 
Made 2 good tackles first half and scored a deflected winner.
But everyone will say we were rubbish, surely it's on a 100m player to do more during the game?
 
He's a very average player but wait for the media wankfest after this.
 
He went missing a lot, was out of position for Rashford's goal, and did a poor challenge for the offside goal.
 
I can bet if we had bought him for 105m he would have scored an own goal. That's our luck
 
Poborsky's hair said:
got a lucky goal, not sure how he had a good game..
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rajds89 said:
He’s at the standard required to play for them.. he’d look lost in a better team.
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GMoore23 said:
He's a very average player but wait for the media wankfest after this.
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mu4c_20le said:
Forgot he was playing until he scored
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Hammondo said:
He went missing a lot, was out of position for Rashford's goal, and did a poor challenge for the offside goal.
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I think the kids say "Cope harder" to stuff like this.
 
It’s funny how much of the analysis is about moments. He will get the headlines for the winner from a corner but overall he was pretty average. Showed zero quality
 
Forget about the goal. He is amazing. Just bodies people. Someone in my family has played against him in the FA cup and he said he was a beast physically. I saw an interview with him and Rio and he's same height if not taller. He's perfect for the PL. He's aggressive, energetic, carries the ball, speaks very well.

I'm gonna say that Arsenal have got a bargain.
 
Shane88 said:
I think the kids say "Cope harder" to stuff like this.
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They do.. but the kids aren’t capable of constructing an argument as to why our statements are wrong. So in fact, you must try harder.
 
predator said:
Forget about the goal. He is amazing. Just bodies people. Someone in my family has played against him in the FA cup and he said he was a beast physically. I saw an interview with him and Rio and he's same height if not taller. He's perfect for the PL. He's aggressive, energetic, carries the ball, speaks very well.

I'm gonna say that Arsenal have got a bargain.
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105m for the type of player he is isn’t a bargain, Szoboszlai cost £60m and I wouldn’t even call that a bargain.
 
Didn't really stand out in the match but got the crucial goal. I wish a few of our players would do that. They don't stand out and don't score a goal to win the game.
 
predator said:
What are you even trying to say? :lol:
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Im trying to say it’s hard to call a defensive midfielder a bargain when he costs 105m. I used Szoboszlai as an example of an attacking midfielder who contributed in all phases of play who cost £60m.

I think maybe after a few seasons of top level performances you can start to look at the price favourably, but generally it’s a crazy fee for a DM or even box to box midfielder, he would have to have a Viera Roy Keane like influence for him to be called a ‘bargain’.
 
Shane88 said:
I think the kids say "Cope harder" to stuff like this.
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What’s there that’s coping? He did feck all of note for 90 minutes against a midfield of 2 geriatrics + a 10 who gives the ball away for fun, then scored off a massive deflection while completely unmarked by a braindead defense.

We made every midfield that played against us this season looked good and he didn’t even accomplish that, you think he had a better game than Nunes or Bissouma?
 
Righteous Steps said:
Im trying to say it’s hard to call a defensive midfielder a bargain when he costs 105m. I used Szoboszlai as an example of an attacking midfielder who contributed in all phases of play who cost £60m.

I think maybe after a few seasons of top level performances you can start to look at the price favourably, but generally it’s a crazy fee for a DM or even box to box midfielder, he would have to have a Viera Roy Keane like influence for him to be called a ‘bargain’.
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Defensive midfielders are crucial. I think it's an outdated view you have to be honest. A guaranteed starter defensive mid for a top four club is worth the same, if not more than a centre back or a full back or even a keeper. Maybe not as much as a striker as they are very hard to come across at the top level. In a world where Grealish, Caiceido are going for 100million plus and many others going for 80 90, Rice is a bargain.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
What’s there that’s coping? He did feck all of note for 90 minutes against a midfield of 2 geriatrics + a 10 who gives the ball away for fun, then scored off a massive deflection while completely unmarked by a braindead defense.

We made every midfield that played against us this season looked good and he didn’t even accomplish that, you think he had a better game than Nunes or Bissouma?
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:lol: this is how you tell the world you've never played football in your life without telling them that. How did you not notice how good he was on most aspects whether it was winning the ball from our mid or carrying it and passing. Forget the goal, that was lucky and a rare scenario that he found himself in with so much space.

Honestly, only someone who hasn't played the game before could say what you just said.

I know passions are high. I'm fuming but let's not be ridiculous.
 
MrMarcello said:
A John O'Shea, Central Midfielder, performance and a John O'Shea style late winner.
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100 % correct! Although OShea was more usefull in other position.

Though he played a 5/10 game. Passing sideways and back whole game. Lucky that referee and VAR gave him goal.
 
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