Carrick and Rice are opposite types of players even if they are both 6s
Declan Rice | Arsenal £105m player
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) are here to talk about United's dreadful home defeat at the hands of Big Ange's Tottenham Hotspur. Should this have been the end of Ten Hag? How long does he actually have left? And does Nik finally want ETH out?!
Needs 55 games.
Agreed, he is a good player is he better than Partey I have my reservations on that, although he'll be more available than Partey
He'll always struggle to live up to that price tag with the role he has. Its CRAZY money for that type of player.
The hard thing to get your head around is…
100 million doesn’t buy you the best player in the world in todays game. It buys you premier league proven.
100 million doesn’t buy you the best player in the world in todays game. It buys you premier league proven.
He's never going to live up to that price tag but he won't face the same media scrutiny as others because he's the England golden boy. Good player just not a £100M player in a million years.
What about the vast majority of premier league proven players who are under 100m?
Why is everyone debating this transfer far more than others?
jealousy?
jealousy?
I am a bit confused by the reaction tbh.
Every single person is aware he isn't worth £100m. Even Arsenal are. The Athletic said we thought we'd only have to pay £70-80m.
But, equally the club obviously think it's worth overpaying to get him in because of some of the leadership qualities he offers etc so we have done.
Yh we've spent £25m more, but it's very easy to blow £25m nowadays on a player anyway who is useless.
Every single person is aware he isn't worth £100m. Even Arsenal are. The Athletic said we thought we'd only have to pay £70-80m.
But, equally the club obviously think it's worth overpaying to get him in because of some of the leadership qualities he offers etc so we have done.
Yh we've spent £25m more, but it's very easy to blow £25m nowadays on a player anyway who is useless.
Never been impressed with his forward passing for all his defensive attributes he's not as good at finding the 8s and the forwards through the pockets of space as Partey is..
I think he's absolutely mint and will be a great buy.
That’s what happens when you break records and spend £105m. Comes with the territory.
105m and they're no closer to City than they were before. Doesnt matter how many tackles and interceptions you can make when camped on the edge of your own box all game, the best defensive midfielders stand out for their ability to transition between defence and attack. Busquets, Casemiro, Fernandinho, Rodri, Carrick and others are/were all brilliant at recovering the ball and quickly getting it to the feet of the attackers. I have never seen Rice do that.
Gone from being incredibly overrated to incredibly underrated in the time it takes to play 1 pre season friendly.
Nothing has changed. Good player, not a special player.
Nothing has changed. Good player, not a special player.
Hopefully he will replace Antony as one of the scapegoats in PL.
I don't know man, but caicedo is miles better, not even close. My opinion of course.
So Mudryk is now great after one preseason game and Rice is shit. Gotcha
80% true. This expensive signings generally never work.
People will be shocked again when it won't work and act surprised.
Over 30 players have gone for more than €80M.
Here is the list. How many have genuinely been a success, genuine success through individual success and collective team success ? Which can be agreed by all group of fans.
Ronaldo ManUtd - Real Madrid.
Neymar Santos - Barcelona
VvD S'ton - Liverpool
Suarez Liverpool - Barca
Maybe Mbappe to some degree
From around 34 players, only 5 and below we can all agree to have been a success.
1 Neymar Barcelona - PSG 2017 €222m 2 Kylian Mbappe Monaco - PSG 2017 €145m (+€35m) 3 Joao Felix Benfica - Atletico Madrid 2019 €126m 4 Enzo Fernandez Benfica - Chelsea 2023 €121m =5 Philippe Coutinho Liverpool - Barcelona 2018 €120m (+€40m) =5 Antoine Griezmann Atletico Madrid - Barcelona 2019 €120m 7 Jack Grealish Aston Villa - Manchester City 2021 €117m 8 Romelu Lukaku Inter - Chelsea 2021 €115m =9 Ousmane Dembele Borussia Dortmund - Barcelona 2017 €105m (+€45m) =9 Paul Pogba Juventus - Manchester United 2016 €105m 11 Jude Bellingham Dortmund - Real Madrid 2023 €103m 12 Gareth Bale Tottenham - Real Madrid 2013 €100.8m =13 Cristiano Ronaldo Real Madrid - Juventus 2018 €100m =13 Eden Hazard Chelsea - Real Madrid 2019 €100m (+€40m) =13 Mykhailo Mudryk Shakhtar Donetsk - Chelsea 2023 €100m 16 Antony Ajax - Manchester United 2022 €95m (+€5m) 17 Cristiano Ronaldo Manchester United - Real Madrid 2009 €94m 18 Gonzalo Higuain Napoli - Juventus 2016 €90m 19 Harry Maguire Leicester City - Manchester United 2019 €87.1m 20 Neymar Santos - Barcelona 2013 €86.2m 21 Jadon Sancho Borussia Dortmund - Manchester United 2021 €85m 22 Romelu Lukaku Everton - Manchester United 2017 €84.8m 23 Virgil van Dijk Southampton - Liverpool 2018 €84.5m 24 Luis Suarez Liverpool - Barcelona 2014 €82.3m 25 Wesley Fofana Leicester City - Chelsea 2022 €80.6m =26 Aurelien Tchouameni Monaco - Real Madrid 2022 €80m (+€20m) =26 James Rodriguez Monaco - Real Madrid 2014 €80m =26 Kepa Arrizabalaga Athletic Club - Chelsea 2018 €80m =26 Lucas Hernandez Atletico Madrid - Bayern Munich 2019 €80m =26 Romelu Lukaku Manchester United - Inter 2019 €80m 31 Nicolas Pepe Lille - Arsenal 2019 €79.9m 32 Alvaro Morata Real Madrid - Chelsea 2017 €79.9m
Add Kai Havertz in this list.. From Leverkusen to Chelsea €85M
This big signings generally never work.. In more ways than one, it will happen to Arsenal now.
All United fans should be satisfied, it's not us who have been rinsed this time around.
Poor man's Kobbie
I haven't been following the thread at all but I think this is a great signing for Arsenal
I'm worried that they got him to be honest
the fee is too much but I don't really care about that
I'm worried that they got him to be honest
the fee is too much but I don't really care about that
Crap game last night, I say sell him.
Rice has been poor for a long time now and, imo, it’s because of the league transitioning to playing out from the back. A pure DM may make tackle after tackle in his position now but if he isn’t elite with his feet then the ball just gets recycled back over and over again until they find space either out wide or between the CBs. That’s on top of West Ham not being able to play it out themselves because they’re always winning it back while being incredibly deep so revert to quick counters rather than sustained passing.
It could all change at Arsenal of course but he doesn’t do it for England so I highly doubt it.
Let's at least wait for him to stink it up in games that matter. I won't be surprised if like Grealish at City he needs a full year to get to grips with the tactics and the expectation of being a record signing.
He will be very good for Arsenal, In the Athletic article it was mentioned the reason for signing him is Arteta and their staff believes he can be the defensive player who can cover Odegaard and Havertz midfield and he has all the athletic ability to do so.
Ofcourse fee is high but they got the player manager wanted and they don't have many gaps in the team. So they can pay big to sign their first choice player.
Ofcourse fee is high but they got the player manager wanted and they don't have many gaps in the team. So they can pay big to sign their first choice player.
With the recent comments from Arteta, it seems HMPartey is here to stay. Fortunately for him he can switch back to a midfield two of Partey and Rice and push Odegaard in front.
Only god knows why they bought Havertz. Pointless signing who I can never see being able to play that LCM role in the PL
Only god knows why they bought Havertz. Pointless signing who I can never see being able to play that LCM role in the PL
Yes, very relieved Partey looks to be staying now.
I think people forget we're in CL this year, hence why he went for someone like Havertz. Theoretically, Arteta is planning to play him as LCM and false 9, giving him options and improving our depth. We massively overpaid but I can see why his versatility and experience appealed to Arteta. He's definitely the biggest question mark of our 3 signings so far.
Why are people judging players based on preseason games? Why are you all not waiting first PL matchday and laugh at half time rating like we always do.
Casemiro showed him levels.
This is my only issue with their transfer business so far. They have spent over 200m and haven't improved a single position in their starting 11.
I totally get the point that they needed depth but Amrabat is available for 25m, surely Xhaka would have stayed on for another year if they asked. If they are just adding depth then I would argue it's better to look for players at sensible prices and save your transfer budget for a top class striker.
Re Rice, he played like what he is. A very decent midfielder.
Absurd fee
The amount of people coming in here after a pre season friendly with him playing in a new team, with new players and have already written him off. Rawkish behavior.
We beat Liverpool in the pre season last year and how did we start the league?
This is just practice. Nothing more, nothing less. Games like these, players will be mentally off. Just getting a run around.
We beat Liverpool in the pre season last year and how did we start the league?
This is just practice. Nothing more, nothing less. Games like these, players will be mentally off. Just getting a run around.
I actually think he’s a good player (not quite at the level his price suggests). However, his best position for me is as a holding midfielder. But with Partey likely staying, there’s likely to be an imbalance.
A midfield of Rice, Havertz and Odegaard is terrible balance and will get smoked most of the time. I think Havertz is a mistake signing. It won’t be long before the midfield becomes Rice, Partey and Odegaard which is naturally more solid. However, it means Rice will have to play more advanced which is where the problem lies. He’s barely played in such an advanced role for West Ham so spending that much on someone who will end up playing there is a risk and unknown.
We will see but it’s going to be interesting to see how they get the right balance.
Why do people have to be so flippant or disparaging of other's opinions? I don't see many thinking Mudryk is great (apart from Chelsea fans I guess), and as for Rice, opinions have been generally consistent, i.e. that he's a solid PL player but nothing more (and that his price tag is ridiculous). There might be some messages going a bit overboard, but it's also in reaction to the performance yesterday, and more often than not tongue in cheek. I think everyone knows that a pre-season friendly has little bearing in the grand scheme of things, it just so happens it was very much in line with what some have been saying and validates those impressions.
Exactly.The amount of people coming in here after a pre season friendly with him playing in a new team, with new players and have already written him off. Rawkish behavior.
We beat Liverpool in the pre season last year and how did we start the league?
This is just practice. Nothing more, nothing less. Games like these, players will be mentally off. Just getting a run around.
Never read so much nonsense. It’s times like this which makes me wonder WTF I’m I still doing on Red Cafe.
Any Arsenal fans questioning why is everyone fixating on the fee...its the Pogba effect.
Paul couldn't kick a ball without getting slaughtered for costing 90 million. Only fair we return the favour for £105 million Rice.
Paul couldn't kick a ball without getting slaughtered for costing 90 million. Only fair we return the favour for £105 million Rice.
They're cementing top 4 by padding out the squad, which is the main priority for now. They're not going to attract those better players until they've been in the CL a few times and built their profile back up.
I don't think their main 11 is genuinely good enough for top 4 without an absurd run of games like last year but that's the risk they have to take.
I think this is quite accurate. I just don't see any midfield combination that includes Havertz to work in any way, and I feel that one with Partey AND Rice puts a lot of pressure for creativity on the 3rd midfielder (most likely Odegaard). Rice has never struck me as a midfielder than can inject that spark of creativity - he's ok/decent-ish at carrying the ball, not elite but ok, but that's about it.
Havertz's versatility only works if he's any good in either of those positions.
For £70m you could sign an actual midfielder who can play the role well, then Havertz as a false 9 isn't better than any of Jesus, Nketiah and Balogun are as a striker.
That was idiotic behavior from all involved.
There should be no rush to continue engagement in such.
I was posting he was shite before the preseason and the 105million. Football scouting hipster