Yeah but I am repeating the fact that one is facing a times better striker. You went on to say Vidic doesn't deserve to be in the draft which makes no sense without knowing his opponent.
And yours is not one who's going to trouble him.
Decades Draft Tournament : AldoRaine18 vs Brwned
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
Yeah but I am repeating the fact that one is facing a times better striker. You went on to say Vidic doesn't deserve to be in the draft which makes no sense without knowing his opponent.
And yours is not one who's going to trouble him.
I wasn't nitpicking, I was saying Vidic, Zambrotta, Alonso and Villa are the ones here who look out of place. There was general agreement on that and I don't think it's controversial. No mention of Camacho because he just wasn't a weak link and he's doing a good job on Gullit from what I can see. If you want to quote people for cheap votes then the free for all can start here. As it is I think we need to even this up with some nice reminders about the class of Edwards and Best.
Camacho is as much a weak link as Vidic is in plain words. He does look out of place against a tremendously powerful player. And he is physically overwhelmed. As I said, he will lose all aerial battles against Gullit and the ball will fall into dangerous space with some deadly predators waiting to get anything that comes their way.
It is a massive route to goal considering I have pin point accurate passers sitting deep.
It is a massive route to goal considering I have pin point accurate passers sitting deep.
Sigh, I am tired now.
I am going to leave by saying, that I will outscore you, and a football match is won that way.
I am going to leave by saying, that I will outscore you, and a football match is won that way.
So much dirt flying around, it's actually quite sad how we unearth and recognise players of yore in the draft only to crash them back down to earth.
That said...
That said...
Look who's here. 
Take over for me, would you anto! x
Take over for me, would you anto! x
You've changed your tune in the last few weeks. When asked for your top 10 central defenders...
Nice list though, I wouldn't disagree with much of it at all.
You've changed your tune in the last few weeks. When asked for your top 10 central defenders...
OuchYou've changed your tune in the last few weeks. When asked for your top 10 central defenders...
I didn't say those were all. I just don't think Vidic would be more troubled in this game, which is the truth. If he was even facing Sanchez, I'd have said he would need to put in a great shift, but he's comfortable here.
Bergomi has Muller or Zico against him.
Anyway I am really tired now. Need a break.
Just before I leave.
Tactical Update.
Cruyff has moved up field to play as a second striker. Seeing as there is no one guarding that side, he will exploit it. There is no way Falcao can have tabs on him anymore, not that he had much before.
Imagine a Messi circa 08-09 only on the left.
Tactical Update.
Cruyff has moved up field to play as a second striker. Seeing as there is no one guarding that side, he will exploit it. There is no way Falcao can have tabs on him anymore, not that he had much before.
Imagine a Messi circa 08-09 only on the left.
I don't even consider him a great TBH and yes, peak Torres was better IMO but Brwned has had bad experienced with him before. Unlucky, as Torres-Vidic would provide all sorts of mud-slinging ammo.
I reckon that defence would have him in his pocket, but Best is running riot on the right and drawing Vidic -not that Vidic is the one keeping him in his pocket- so opportunities will emerge and he was by all means a good finisher.
I can't see Brwned scoring more than a couple though. With one he loses it. With two he wins or draws, depending on when he scores. More than two and it turns into an end-to-end goalfest I would fancy him to prevail in.
I agree it is relevant. You want to know how a player at the peak of his powers would perform in a less familiar setting, which is what any of these draft teams effectively is.
I don't find Aldo's point on Edwards and Rio outlandish though. He is right, most neutrals wouldn't rate Ferdinand as any more than a Carvalho. And by neutrals I don't mean knowledgeable neutrals. They are all wrong IMO
, but his point is not inaccurate.Vidic isn't facing Villa. You said it yourself, Villa is Hansen's job primarily and would under normal circumstances be very well taken care of. The problem is Best is Zambrotta's and Vidic's job and that will be a severe disruption to the stability of your defence. With a defence falling in disarray Villa can prove a handy poacher.
With Brehme being allowed to overlap, he is making sure Cruyff is one on one against Bergomi and by isolating him he will create the space for the like sof Muller, Gullit and Zico who will happily exploit that. Especially someone liek Gerd who had great movement and positioning. As good as Rio is, he ain't a Baresi to track Gerd's movement completely. And, Rio always that issue with lapse of concentration.
Brehme has no one to cross to, his overlapping is completely wasted.
His only route is a magical goal by Best. How many of that will you have? Not enough to outscore Muller on the other side.
Brehme has no one to cross to, his overlapping is completely wasted.
His only route is a magical goal by Best. How many of that will you have? Not enough to outscore Muller on the other side.
Vidic would have been brilliant to cut the crosses for Hugol! In this game his main (considerable) strengths are quite redundant though.Muller would fill his boots if Brwned's defence got into the state of disarray yours can be brought into. I don't think it will be that bad though, which probably about evens things up.
Zico on the other hand... That's where I see you outscoring him, but a lot depends on how long it takes you to get into your groove here.
I don't even consider him a great TBH and yes, peak Torres was better IMO but Brwned has had bad experienced with him before. Unlucky, as Torres-Vidic would provide all sorts of mud-slinging ammo.
I reckon that defence would have him in his pocket, but Best is running riot on the right and drawing Vidic -not that Vidic is the one keeping him in his pocket- so opportunities will emerge and he was by all means a good finisher.
I can't see Brwned scoring more than a couple though. With one he loses it. With two he wins or draws, depending on when he scores. More than two and it turns into an end-to-end goalfest I would fancy him to prevail in.
I agree it is relevant. You want to know how a player at the peak of his powers would perform in a less familiar setting, which is what any of these draft teams effectively is.
I don't find Aldo's point on Edwards and Rio outlandish though. He is right, most neutrals wouldn't rate Ferdinand as any more than a Carvalho. And by neutrals I don't mean knowledgeable neutrals. They are all wrong IMO
Vidic isn't facing Villa. You said it yourself, Villa is Hansen's job primarily and would under normal circumstances be very well taken care of. The problem is Best is Zambrotta's and Vidic's job and that will be a severe disruption to the stability of your defence. With a defence falling in disarray Villa can prove a handy poacher.
I'm not arguing they won't score. Best has a solo goal in store and if not he can make Villa score.
It is not enough against my creativity, buildups and routes to goal. I am attacking from a lot more areas while his attack is 1 dimensional.
I hadn't seen this. This could be disarray alright.
Indeed, a lot more trouble for him now. Bergomi is in all sorts of knots here and Muller has a lot more space than before.
See, now you're moving the goalposts. You said nothing about who Vidic was facing there, you just said he was a better centre back. And no doubt if you were looking at your side objectively you'd be saying Cruyff and Zico are getting in each others' way, but here it's assumed they're working magically. You're betraying your own convictions just to win a game. Shame.
Cruyff along with Muller makes much more sense as I said before. In that case where does Zico go?
He stays where he is.
Need a bit of help visualising this here Aldo, for all intents and purposes it seems like the team is still playing exactly as it was before.
Cruyff's a lot more direct, attacking further up than trying to buildup in midfield alongside Zico. As I said, a mirror image of Messi.
Zico is still the AM. But now he's not sharing the pulling strings bit as much as he was before, that he will do most of it now. While Cruyff takes Bergomi into a roller coaster.
When Cruyff is one on one, he'd isolate Bergomi or else provide a pass to Zico who'd be around the box or obviously put it across to Muller.
Your defense would be out of shape and there will be a lot more space to exploit.
Zico is still the AM. But now he's not sharing the pulling strings bit as much as he was before, that he will do most of it now. While Cruyff takes Bergomi into a roller coaster.
When Cruyff is one on one, he'd isolate Bergomi or else provide a pass to Zico who'd be around the box or obviously put it across to Muller.
Your defense would be out of shape and there will be a lot more space to exploit.
Surely if Cruyff has moved forward and Zico has taken on more of the playmaking then it simply means Zico's goal threat has now been diminished - and is as much of an afterthought as you seem to be suggesting Charlton's is - while you've further compounded the issue of the lack of width?
Above all it seems foolish to force Cruyff to occupy one rigid, non-playmaking role. It's Cruyff of the 60s. I'll take a weakened Cruyff in return for a more influential Zico.
Above all it seems foolish to force Cruyff to occupy one rigid, non-playmaking role. It's Cruyff of the 60s. I'll take a weakened Cruyff in return for a more influential Zico.
What? Zico's been a playmaker and a prolific scorer his whole life. He was playmaking so far as well, you know, he can move into the box when he passes the ball.
This in no way diminishes his goal threat. It is just that Cruyff has moved up front which leaves him to do the playmaking. But once he starts attacks he would soon move into a scoring area, just like he has always done while Cruyff toys with Bergomi.
This in no way diminishes his goal threat. It is just that Cruyff has moved up front which leaves him to do the playmaking. But once he starts attacks he would soon move into a scoring area, just like he has always done while Cruyff toys with Bergomi.
So he's taken on more play making, he's just as much of a goal threat, there's no clashing with Cruyff and Cruyff is now leaving my defence in disarray. It's a wonder you didn't pull off such a tactical masterstroke from the beginning.
I mentioned the potential Zico-Cruyff issue in the draft thread but no one seemed interested in discussing it (I assumed it was left for the game, but nope). The way I see it though, playmaker clashes primarily arise when two want to dictate and will have none of it if someone else is trying to do it.
Zico isn't at all that sort of chap. I don't think any Brazilian would be that sort of chap as it is engrained in their culture that the more such players the better. Rivaldo may be the worst at it and he did just fine with Ronnie around in 2002.
Which takes you back to Cruyff being the egotistical shit he is. If you had Maradona or Pelé then you would worry about the tantrum as there's no chance you will want to accommodate it. Zico though is quite an adaptable player who I could see letting Cruyff run things and focusing on acting as a second -deadly- striker.
The interesting thing though is this is the complete opposite scenario as Cruyff is now acting as the second striker. I think he would quite enjoy the freedom of essentially having the role of being the disruptive element across the front, it's the role most similar to what total football delivered: constant disruption. The fact Best is doing that already at the other end may be motivation enough for him to take to the job like a fish in water. Basically, the ego is directed towards proving he can be more disruptive than Best and Zico is left to get on with it. In fact, he is appreciated as a handy partner in crime to bring about that disruption.
It would be a joy to watch this game.
How do you plan to counter that Brwned?
What are you inferring?
Well, your team gets much better with no negative consequences which either means you made a mistake to begin with or - more likely - you're just saying nice things about your team for the sake of it. See Bergomi/Vidic.
I got carried away with the CB comparisons, let's move on from that.
I wouldn't call it a mistake, it is just that the main player has a different role. Cruyff can be deadly both in building up play or going direct and isolating a defender. I was using him in the former role so far, now he's the latter.
I was putting pressure on your CMs earlier, now it is being put on the CBs and hence the confusion is being created in a more dangerous area.
Obviously I had to change things as I've taken a 8-2 hit after going 5-1 up.
It was an outright lie and makes the rest of this discussion completely pointless I'm afraid.
What was?
The Vidic > Bergomi statement.
I'm sure it was you that said you prefer Bergomi to Burgnich too, trying to criticise him now is a huge own goal.
Criticizing him when he's against the likes of Cruyff, Muller and Zico is not the same as what I said before. Whatever I said was in relation to his versatility as well, I was obviously talking of this game when I said he's being worse than Vidic. If it was taken in the other sense due to my bad English then I've cleared it up. Not my first language!
I'm yet to hear from Brwned on how is planning to tackle Cruyff in the current role.
Nah, your English is great, I'v read perfectly written tactical insights from you on a number of occasions.
I think you said something like 'Vidic is without a doubt a better cb than Bergomi' - pretty straightforward but contradicts everything that you've said previously.
I obviously meant in this game. As a player overall Bergomi is better, he can attack, play as RB and still be a good defender, Vidic is limited but very good at what he does.
FFS if I'm losing votes because of a badly constructed line then I might as well go home.
Cracking teams on paper, to be fair. I think a Vidic - Hansen partnership would work against most attacks because they'd been have very complementary...however, against Brwned's attacking options would Vidic be suited as much as a proper ball playing centre back? And interestingly enough despite the modern game evolving...both have gone for out and out number 9s.
Not sure I see how that tactical change makes much of a difference really. It's not like Cruyff was a traditional left winger before that. He was always playing further forward and would drift infield.