True but you could say similar about Zico with Edwards and Falcao, that central midfield is rock solid
Decades Draft Tournament : AldoRaine18 vs Brwned
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
True but you could say similar about Zico with Edwards and Falcao, that central midfield is rock solid
The width issue.
While I don't have "natural width", all three attacking midfielders are well skilled to stretch his defense. IF NEEDED, they can pull wide and can provide width, so it will never be a case of all being congested in the middle with no one remotely capable of going wide.
Cruyff needs no explaining, he can pick the ball up anywhere he likes. Gullit is as versatile as they come and Zico often played as RAM.
Again, not saying these are their primary roles, but can they mix and match, yes.
While I don't have "natural width", all three attacking midfielders are well skilled to stretch his defense. IF NEEDED, they can pull wide and can provide width, so it will never be a case of all being congested in the middle with no one remotely capable of going wide.
Cruyff needs no explaining, he can pick the ball up anywhere he likes. Gullit is as versatile as they come and Zico often played as RAM.
Again, not saying these are their primary roles, but can they mix and match, yes.
I think Villa's fine in this company and set-up. He was the main reason Spain won the World Cup in 2010, getting them out of jail on several occasions, and scoring 5 (?) goals in two consecutive major tournaments stacks up very well in cross-generational comparisons. As does his overall international record where the leveller of international football gives credibility to his high tallies.
I can't believe I'm seriously having to argue that David Villa, Spain's all-time top scorer, was best as a striker.
Cannot agree bringing his WC record up. Anyone who saw it knows majority of the goals were cutting in from the left. He was never the lone striker in WC.
His only saving grace as a lone forward is at Valencia, not completely though Brwned, he did play in a front 2 with that tall guy who's name I have forgotten.
His international goals, which is why he's even talked in his company have always been from the left. Euro 08 had Torres in the middle.
How is you setup same as Spain's in any of their competitions with respect to Villa? That is my argument.
I think its clear where Brwneds issue is, quite blatantly Villa is coming under huge scrutiny and when you compare him to Aldo and Muller at the other end its a Brwned biggest issue in the game.
Don't agree with Fergus on playing him on the left though, he was always better in the middle at Valencia. His time at Barca has been very mehh largely because he was used on the left to fit in Messi.
Villa at Valencia is a different proposition to the one at Barcelona - and the much better player
Don't agree with Fergus on playing him on the left though, he was always better in the middle at Valencia. His time at Barca has been very mehh largely because he was used on the left to fit in Messi.
Villa at Valencia is a different proposition to the one at Barcelona - and the much better player
Seriously, we're now saying David Villa was a left winger for Spain. I'm in the twilight zone.
He wasn't a lone forward, when did I say he was a left winger?
I would say Villa against Vidic is bound result in incidents favouring Villa which would lead to goal scoring opportunities whereas at the other the defenders don't have clear weaknesses like Vidic has.
Considering the rest of the midfield and the threat of Best, I am voting for Brwned
Considering the rest of the midfield and the threat of Best, I am voting for Brwned
Villa will never be against Vidic. Villa's natural tendency is always to go to the left and it will be Hansen he will be facing.
Left winger, left forward, same thing. He played down the middle for Spain in at least 3/4 of those games.
Where did he score from in his majority of his goals? Cutting in from the left.
But he could always target Vidic. If you argue that Villa is out of place here, one could do the same thing about Vidic (not on this site maybe)
If we were not on this site Edwards and Rio would have been a weakness. Let's not go there.
Do we want the player who played up front for Valencia and achieved very little in all time draft? I don't think so. Not far different from picking Torres if we are considering peaks.
I don't think Villa belongs on the pitch tbh, I was trying to be nice about and say I can perhaps see a role for him as a wide forward (he's higher up the list of greats in that role than he is as a cf certainly IMO) as he was great there for Barcelona and Spain.
That said, Alonso and Zambrotta don't belong either.
I don't think Villa belongs on the pitch tbh, I was trying to be nice about and say I can perhaps see a role for him as a wide forward (he's higher up the list of greats in that role than he is as a cf certainly IMO) as he was great there for Barcelona and Spain.
That said, Alonso and Zambrotta don't belong either.
He was already the best striker in the world or thereabouts before he moved to Barcelona. And with the leg break he has done little since to add to his reputation, yet should still quite rightly be regarded as one of the best in his generation. There was under-rating of his performances at Valencia, in a set-up not dissimilar to what Brwned has on the park, because inevitably they flew under the radar compared to the exploits of the big two every weekend.
I do prefer him in the inside-left channel for Spain because, while Torres has largely been dogshit for the last 4 years, he does occupy the centre-halves if nothing else. At the same time there is enough penetration from Charlton, Best and Figo to make this set-up work: they all know where the onion bag is better than any of Spain's attacking midfielders have done in recent years.
Charlton and Figo have battles to win against Rijkaard and Thuram before they consider to think where Villa is. But the bigger problem for Villa is that he's against Hansen, never came up against that level of defender when he was playing with Valencia.
Who do you think will find it easier to score? A lone Villa against Hansen or Zico and Muller against Rio and Bergomi?
Have we somehow come to the conclusion that Villa is now unable to pull out to the left? Strange. Figo will naturally drift inside, Charlton will naturally push forward, Best will be drifting as he does...the entire attack and midfield is fljid, none are limited.
How does Villa compare to Best and Charltons greatest ever strike partners, in terms of style?
Think it's a bit of an own goal by Brwned to take badly to the inevitable criticisms of Villa, seems like its the main topic of conversation and only more dirt can come to light abut him as opposed to anything good that no one has noticed.
When both Torres and Villa were at their peak I actually preferred Fernando, it's not since his move to Barcelona and the tactical diversity etc etc he's displayed from the left that I really started to rate Villa as a great.
Think it's a bit of an own goal by Brwned to take badly to the inevitable criticisms of Villa, seems like its the main topic of conversation and only more dirt can come to light abut him as opposed to anything good that no one has noticed.
When both Torres and Villa were at their peak I actually preferred Fernando, it's not since his move to Barcelona and the tactical diversity etc etc he's displayed from the left that I really started to rate Villa as a great.
You don't want him drifting out to the left. You want someone in the box putting away the chances created by Best/Figo/Brehme.
Rijkaard provides a lot bigger cut off than either of Edwards or Falcao. Rijkaard can put in a shift on Charlton that will separate him from Villa and render him to seeking wide options, one of which is guarded by Thuram taking us back to Best being Brwned's only route to goal.
In my case, Zico and Cruyff are always humming around the box as Edwards and Falcao will inevitably go forward. Zico will find himself unmarked more than Charlton will when both teams have the possession respectively.
And add to that Zico just has to slip in a pass behind Bergomi to find Muller who won't miss.
I've never said Brwned will not score, he will. Best will torment Zambrotta surely. But I will end up outscoring him whichever way you look at it.
Goals win games. Simple as.
In my case, Zico and Cruyff are always humming around the box as Edwards and Falcao will inevitably go forward. Zico will find himself unmarked more than Charlton will when both teams have the possession respectively.
And add to that Zico just has to slip in a pass behind Bergomi to find Muller who won't miss.
I've never said Brwned will not score, he will. Best will torment Zambrotta surely. But I will end up outscoring him whichever way you look at it.
Goals win games. Simple as.
The other thing I'll pick up on is:
Which while diplomatically put is nevertheless harsh. Obviously we are on the Caf but it seems ridiculous that the best players from Liverpool's greatest team, the one that stomped all over the continent and won countless European Cups, are not fit for an all-time draft yet United's heros from their single-win teams are rarely questioned. With Souness and Dalglish jettisoned for more voter-friendly alternatives, Hansen is now the remaining member of that team and inevitably coming under fire.
I also have the most creative player on the pitch having an absolute free ride. Seriously, who is stopping Cruyff? If you want to stop him you need to do what Vogts did, shackle him completely. He's just going to torment your backline for fun here.
Gullit in particular was under-rated as someone who could amble around a full-back, largely because of his frame which defied the convention of a traditional, nippy winger.
Obviously Brwned this isn't necessarily a comment directed purely at you, rather the wider perception and vote-worthiness of the Liverpool boys.
Indeed, while in reality the biggest reason he was considered a football legend was he combined that great frame and physical play with extremely brilliant technical ability.
As said before, Brwned's own player Best considers him as good as Maradona when it comes to sticking the ball to his feet and beating players with blistering pace. Has to count for something that.
I am not just saying by my imagination. I'm a part of few forums outside Redcafe, most of them neutral with fans of all ages. Rio outside redcafe is no more than a carvalho on this forum.
United fans have watched him week in week out for years and know how good he was at his peak. If anything, we're more qualified than the neutrals to judge him.
Edwards is another matter though.
I agree with the general point but we're talking about two players who were voted in the top three of the Ballon d'Or here. Falcao perhaps is at a similar standing, but the other two are top-tier. Hansen's in that tier below surely.
Ah come on, this never happened in the European Cup finals and it's not like he ran riot then. He's a huge threat, no doubt. The best player on the pitch most likely. You have to ask how effective he's going to be in a non-totalvoetbaal side though. That's always been the question before.
This time he's competing with Zico but it's not being questioned at all. It's unusual.
Yeah I rate him highly obviously, I am saying that to reply to sajeev who think Vidic is giving me in advantage only because this is redcafe.
You are back to glorifying Ballon D'or after slacking EDogen for having Sivori, a winner. Falcao lost against Hansen in a European Cup final, mind.
What? If you don't believe call a bunch of knowledgeable neutrals of your choice and see it for yourself.
A criticism of him being a few levels below Muller is completely normal, I never expected widespread criticism for playing up top in the position he was clearly best in for god knows how many years. It's baffling.
That wasn't what I said if you read back. I just said that awards and eulogies aren't enough to tell you about a player and was asking could he give us a bit more idea of how he sees him fitting in the team, how he's best used, how that compares to his time at Juve...I don't think it's unfair to say he didn't really know. Which was the point. Awards mean plenty in context, little on their own.