Dean Henderson | Sold to Palace

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Gandalf said:
The break even point on Sancho right now is 60M due to amoritization, selling him for any less would reduce what we have to spend rather than increase it.

Which teams would love to sign him for 20M? It is no secret he is available but nobody is bidding. Part of the problem is that this year whereas strikers are scarce and overvalued there is a surfeit of available keepers. Brentford want to sell Raya before his contract expires, Brighton are trying to sell Sanchez, both are far better players than Dean and yet the market is lukewarm at best. Forest have already sounded out Wolves about Jose Sa and with their financial difficulties it is believed Wolves would let him go for a fairly moderate fee and now there is talk Navas is open to a return so we really do not want to overplay our hand.
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It will interesting to find out what eventually happens.

Going through your argument though I would point out that Navas is 36years old and declining and if Forrest go that route they will be picking the second best GK they have tried on loan last season as clearly Cooper prefers Henderson.

Brighton turned down 30 million from Spurs which suggests the premier league keeper market isn't that weak and as yet Forrest don't have a first team GK.

Henderson's record at Forrest in a team that bought an entire new squad after promotion should be judged on that basis.

Ultimately, I'd keep him as second choice in case Onana gets injured early or we end up in the Taibi situation if the other option is a loan which depletes his value further.
 
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Forest can get fecked.

Grow up, pay between £20 and £25 million and get it done. Everybody wins.

They’ll cough up soon enough. Their fans are already getting restless and they need a goalkeeper quickly.
 
Kag said:
Forest can get fecked.

Grow up, pay between £20 and £25 million and get it done. Everybody wins.

They’ll cough up soon enough. Their fans are already getting restless and they need a goalkeeper quickly.
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I think we have to operate with a bit more subtlety than thinking they'll just cough up or their need is such that they'll definitely meet us on valuation. Forest aren't scared to do a transfer, they've done dozens the last few years.

I don't think GK is a particularly tough market to buy for right now. They aren't high value. I think we saw that ourselves in getting a very reasonable deal on a world class keeper.

They probably want Henderson because they know what they're getting but if we overplay it there will undoubtedly be options in Europe that are a cheaper package. We really, really don't want to lose an interested party on what I think is a relatively uninteresting goalkeeping talent. It's a bit of a delicate balancing act for us, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's something like 15 rising to 20.
 
Mainoldo said:
£120k I think.
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Kag said:
Forest can get fecked.

Grow up, pay between £20 and £25 million and get it done. Everybody wins.

They’ll cough up soon enough. Their fans are already getting restless and they need a goalkeeper quickly.
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You realise this a negotiation right? You lot chose to go down the route of linking in the Onana deal with the possible consequences of us looking elsewhere for a keeper. The general sentiment amongst our fans is to tell United to just do one and get Navas back for the season.

However, the talk down here is there is an offer to buy Elanga at £15m to sweeten the proposed loan + OTB for Henderson.
 
Forest Red said:
You realise this a negotiation right? You lot chose to go down the route of linking in the Onana deal with the possible consequences of us looking elsewhere for a keeper. The general sentiment amongst our fans is to tell United to just do one and get Navas back for the season.

However, the talk down here is there is an offer to buy Elanga at £15m to sweeten the proposed loan + OTB for Henderson.
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Our view is if you are willing to spend £15m on Elanga (thanks alot, btw), then we can hold and get £15-£20m for Henderson.

Henderson is in the States with the team. The onus is on Forest to make an acceptable offer if you want Henderson to link up with your team.
 
If there is an obligation to buy next year, I don't know why it's not being accepted. As long as there is a decent fee attached, it should be fine isn't it ?
 
IrishRedDevil said:
Our view is if you are willing to spend £15m on Elanga (thanks alot, btw), then we can hold and get £15-£20m for Henderson.

Henderson is in the States with the team. The onus is on Forest to make an acceptable offer if you want Henderson to link up with your team.
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From our point of view the onus is on United to be realistic about their transfer fees as we do have options. Playing daft games like taking Henderson to the US just to make a point is not making a deal any more likely. If you think you can get your asking price elsewhere, go for it.
 
Forest Red said:
From our point of view the onus is on United to be realistic about their transfer fees as we do have options. Playing daft games like taking Henderson to the US just to make a point is not making a deal any more likely.
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Forest are the club who needs a new keeper. Either buy Henderson, or show United that you are done by buying a different keeper. If you don’t buy another keeper, United will know you are still after Henderson.

We aren’t in a mad rush to sell as another club might come in for him. Forest isn’t our only selling option, so we may as well keep the options open.
 
IrishRedDevil said:
Forest are the club who needs a new keeper. Either buy Henderson, or show United that you are done by buying a different keeper. If you don’t buy another keeper, United will know you are still after Henderson.

We aren’t in a mad rush to sell as another club might come in for him. Forest isn’t our only selling option, so we may as well keep the options open.
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It’s called a negotiation mate. We have enquired about 3 other Keepers as well as talked to PSG about Navas.
 
Forest Red said:
However, the talk down here is there is an offer to buy Elanga at £15m to sweeten the proposed loan + OTB for Henderson.
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A club wouldn't just spend £15m to sweeten a loan offer...

We have no control over what Forest do, so taking him to tour isn't a game. If there's no permanent offer there's a real chance he stays.
 
Forest Red said:
It’s called a negotiation mate. We have enquired about 3 other Keepers as well as talked to PSG about Navas.
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That’s fine. And until he’s sold, we can hold and potentially negotiate with other clubs.

There’s no chance we would just let him sit in Manchester.
 
Forest Red said:
You realise this a negotiation right? You lot chose to go down the route of linking in the Onana deal with the possible consequences of us looking elsewhere for a keeper. The general sentiment amongst our fans is to tell United to just do one and get Navas back for the season.

However, the talk down here is there is an offer to buy Elanga at £15m to sweeten the proposed loan + OTB for Henderson.
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Jog on and go elsewhere then. A young English GK with PL experience will be able to be sold to another club at some point anyway.
 
The loan with obligation to buy is a proposal seems to me relevant to their dealings with FFP? Just my speculation though.
 
bond19821982 said:
If there is an obligation to buy next year, I don't know why it's not being accepted. As long as there is a decent fee attached, it should be fine isn't it ?
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Probably FFP, we probably need the (on paper) cash this summer to fund signings.
 
Forest Red said:
You realise this a negotiation right? You lot chose to go down the route of linking in the Onana deal with the possible consequences of us looking elsewhere for a keeper. The general sentiment amongst our fans is to tell United to just do one and get Navas back for the season.

However, the talk down here is there is an offer to buy Elanga at £15m to sweeten the proposed loan + OTB for Henderson.
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The holy trinity 68 said:
Jog on and go elsewhere then. A young English GK with PL experience will be able to be sold to another club at some point anyway.
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:lol:

Negotiations should be conducted by fans, it'd be hilarious. Either no-one would ever be sold, or the non-flavour of the month who is "shite" would be "driven meself to [whichever stadium]" on a free.
 
The Urban Goose said:
Probably FFP, we probably need the (on paper) cash this summer to fund signings.
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FFP isn't about cash and obligations to buy are nowadays treated like permanent transfers from day one. Unless you use a loophole like agreing on a conditional obligation to buy.
 
JPRouve said:
FFP isn't about cash and obligations to buy are nowadays treated like permanent transfers from day one. Unless you use a loophole like agreing on a conditional obligation to buy.
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Ok, so an obligation to buy in 2024 would allow that fee to be offset against 2023 expenditure?
 
The Urban Goose said:
Ok, so an obligation to buy in 2024 would allow that fee to be offset against 2023 expenditure?
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If you move the permanent move to 2024 then you put that income in the 2022-2026 rolling periods instead of 2021-2025. For the selling team it's only interesting if your goal is to "extend" your FFP window, an example of that was Monaco with Mbappé, Monaco had received lots of money in 2016-2017 and it was in their interest to only put Mbappé's transfer in their book in a following year, that way their FFP situation was under control for a longer period of time while the opposite was true for PSG, it was better for them to not have one massive figure in 2017 and smooth things over two years.
 
city-puma said:
The loan with obligation to buy is a proposal seems to me relevant to their dealings with FFP? Just my speculation though.
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It may well be. I’ve no idea how we stack up with FFP but we need a CDM, striker and CB this window. Not having to spend £20m on Hendo would make other transfers easier.
 
Forest Red said:
From our point of view the onus is on United to be realistic about their transfer fees as we do have options. Playing daft games like taking Henderson to the US just to make a point is not making a deal any more likely. If you think you can get your asking price elsewhere, go for it.
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Henderson will be on tour just like any player as he is ManUtd player and his transfer isn't close.

Just because a player is linked with other club doesn't mean they will be left back.
 
bond19821982 said:
If there is an obligation to buy next year, I don't know why it's not being accepted. As long as there is a decent fee attached, it should be fine isn't it ?
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It could be that the obligation is conditional on Forest staying up, or something similar. Eric Bailly had an obligation in his Marseille loan which didn't materialiise because he didn't meet the appearances threshold, for example.
 
Adisa said:
It’s been reported that we need to raise money to buy.
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Which doesn't answer my question, why?

If the argument is FFP then it's nonsense because it's not how FFP monitoring works and an obligation to buy fits perfectly with the system. If it's a case of cash flow then I would also suggest that it's also bs because United are highly unlikely to be in need of 15m this summer. Now, it may part of a good management concept, the club has too many players under contract many of which are not part of our future plans and it's a good practice to not purchase recklessly until we get rid of some players and have reduced our projected spendings.
 
JPRouve said:
FFP isn't about cash and obligations to buy are nowadays treated like permanent transfers from day one. Unless you use a loophole like agreing on a conditional obligation to buy.
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This is my understanding as well, from reading the actual rules, but I've seen several tweets indicating that clubs think otherwise. That might just be journalists getting things wrong, though, of course.
 
NotThatSoph said:
This is my understanding as well, from reading the actual rules, but I've seen several tweets indicating that clubs think otherwise. That might just be journalists getting things wrong, though, of course.
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It's journalists getting it wrong. Currently a player is considered permanently transfered if the loan includes an unconditional obligation to buy. Unless the UEFA changed it and didn't update the FFP rule book, that's the current rule:

4. Loan of a player from the lender club to the new club with an unconditional obligation to buy
a) The loan must be reflected by the lender club as a permanent transfer and the player’s registration rights must be derecognised from its intangible assets. The proceeds from the loan and from the future permanent transfer must be recognised from the inception of the loan agreement.
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JPRouve said:
It's journalists getting it wrong. Currently a player is considered permanently transfered if the loan includes an unconditional obligation to buy. Unless the UEFA changed it and didn't update the FFP rule book, that's the current rule:
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Yeah, I've read it, it's why I don't understand why these deals have become so popular. Accounting wise it shouldn't make a difference, and if it's a cash flow thing just do the transfer as normal and pay later.
 
Forest Red said:
You realise this a negotiation right? You lot chose to go down the route of linking in the Onana deal with the possible consequences of us looking elsewhere for a keeper. The general sentiment amongst our fans is to tell United to just do one and get Navas back for the season.

However, the talk down here is there is an offer to buy Elanga at £15m to sweeten the proposed loan + OTB for Henderson.
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I do. And part of negotiation is being told to piss off when clubs start acting the goat.

You need a goalkeeper and clearly want Henderson, so just pay something reasonable. The loan bid is simply laughable if true.
 
NotThatSoph said:
Yeah, I've read it, it's why I don't understand why these deals have become so popular. Accounting wise it shouldn't make a difference, and if it's a cash flow thing just do the transfer as normal and pay later.
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The clubs that I have seen use it today put clauses in them, things like relegation clauses or a minimum amount of games. IIRC in the case of Mbappé PSG had a relegation clause, so in theory the deal wasn't permanent until PSG were saved from relegation. And since the FFP monitoring period is from July 1st to June 30st, the permanent deal starts on the next monitoring year if you are smart enough to put a clause that is triggered after the winter window.

In the case of this thread it doesn't even work since we are talking about two english clubs, the transfer will be permanent before the end of the monitoring period which means that unless we are talking about a two year loan the player will have to be registered for 2023-2024.
 
How is he still here? Not playing in preseason too. As good as gone. When is Forest coming in with proper offer to get this prick to feck off?
 
Don’t see the issue if it’s a loan with an obligation to buy given we seem to be making progress exporting a lot of the other deadwood this summer.

I assume if we’ve rejected the loan offer it’ll be the end fee they’ve offered or the wages they want to pay being the issue.

Without an obligation to buy though it’s a hard no.
 
Kag said:
I do. And part of negotiation is being told to piss off when clubs start acting the goat.

You need a goalkeeper and clearly want Henderson, so just pay something reasonable. The loan bid is simply laughable if true.
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Henderson is on 120k a week and is of no fecking use to us at this point. His value has been steadily declining over the last 3 years and we are pissing away a fortune covering the wages for a player we don’t want and who has become pure poison in the dressing room.

Forest are the only club showing any interest. To all those saying we should tell them to piss off please point to any credible link to an alternative buyer. None exists and so if these negotiations fail we are probably stuck paying the cnut to leak shit to the press for another season as he sits in the stands. I would take a loan with obligation to buy in a heartbeat.
 
arthurka said:
These guys who were running this club were idiots. 120k
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At one point it looked like we had the next England keeper, and it could have been a big mistake letting him run down his contract and go for a miniscule fee.

However, De Gea had a bit of a renaissance, Hendo showed he wasn't ready to step up / showed his slightly offputting character, and suddenly we were stuck with 2 highly paid keepers.

How we still haven't wrapped up a deal everyone wants to happen though I do not know.
 
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